| Author |
Message |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 610
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 12:08 pm: |     |
Didn't Ellen White say that those who join the Adventist church in the end times will be astonished to learn that they had been in Babylon before they joined the Adventist church - or something to that effect?
She certainly had that backwards! Everyone who comes out of false churches such as SDA, RCC, LDS, JW, Islam, etc., find out to their astonishment that they weren't, like they had thought, in the ONE TRUE CHURCH; but actually in Babylon! In each case, these false churches undermine the Bible in some way. The SDA church lets Ellen White "explain" the Bible, the RCC says "let our priests interpret it for you," the LDS says that the Bible "is true insofar as it's been translated correctly," (which completely undermines faith in it and puts their people's faith in Joseph Smith), JW has their own "translation," which takes away the truth about Jesus; and Islam says that the Bible has been "changed" which again takes away faith in it and puts faith in their Koran. [Speaking of Islam, I've heard that the Lord has been giving dreams and visions to Muslims to bring them out of their false religion and to Christianity. I think the reason that the Lord is giving THEM dreams and not people in cults here dreams (so much) is that those people in Islamic countries DON'T HAVE the Bible, so don't have a chance to read it.]
I'm SO glad that the Lord brought me out!!!!!!! It came as a total shock to learn that the SDA church was false. In my case, I wasn't searching and I didn't have "cognitive dissonance." It took the time, fasting, prayers, and talking of another person, who was used by God to bring me out. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 6375
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 12:31 pm: | |
Asurprise, the first winter I was in the church I now attend I had volunteered to greet people as they enter the church. One Saturday evening at the 6:30 service a lady in a lovely yellow dress entered. After greeting her I commented on her lovely yellow dress. She told me thanks, then said she had been a Muslim. I asked her how she learned about Jesus and Christianity. She told me God came to her in a dream. Dennis Fisher had said something about Muslims being spoken to in dreams earlier on this forum. I wanted to ask her more, but her friends were hurrying her on and she left. So, Yes, God does talk to Muslims in dreams.
As for being in shock about adventism. I did not learn all about the deceit, contradictions until I left adventism. At first I did not want to believe that, but the more I read and heard, the more I saw it was true. I have to read it for myself. I do not want to go just by hearing some one else say so. At first I did not want to see anyone writing about it. We were/I was past that. After a while I saw that it is good to know what EGW said and did as it gave me a better idea what they have to go through to leave. I had to see the Bible contradictions, again, to refresh my memory.
God has been good to me by taking me and my son out of adventism and for that I can only say He is awesome.
Diana L |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 271
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 2:02 pm: | |
I, like most Adventists, dealt with church related problems as isolated anomalies, everything else was ‘OK’.
I left primarily due to the lack of assurance of salvation. Since then I've been discovering just how bad Adventism really is; a perversion of God's truth, a dysfunctional church producing dysfunctional members.
I wish I could get my wife out but it does not look likely as she, like most, may grimace at some outlandish Adventist 'thing' but then dismisses it from her mind as insignificant, just an isolated anomaly, and refuses to acknowledge that these ‘things’ are evidence of a greater problem. I’m grateful that God drew me out.
Saved by God’s grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone!!
John Douglas |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9306
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 2:28 pm: | |
John, I relate to your "discovery" phase. Even though I studied before leaving, I had no idea when I left how bad and twisted Adventism was. It really does take time to really see the truth about it. The farther I get from it, the worse I see it to be. It's kind of like not being able to see the forest for the trees...
With prayers for you and your wife,
Colleen |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 272
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 7:31 pm: | |
You’re right, I couldn’t see the trees for the forest
Looking back I find it amazing that I would not consider that this church was unhealthy even though all the symptoms were there indicating a terminal illness. For years I half seriously joked that it was a miracle that I remained an Adventist what with the self serving pastors and congregations split and warring, and for years I optimistically hoped the next pastor would be a ‘good’ one and the people would stop their incessant bickering, it never happened. I never considered that these problems were a direct result of the teachings of Ellen and Adventist theology, and that, as a denomination, were devoid of the Holy Spirit because of the anti-gospel nature of their theology.
But now I’m reminded of the lyrics of an old pop hit ‘I can see clearly now’ by Johnny Nash:
(modified)
I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun (Son)-Shiny day.
I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I’ve been prayin?for
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun (Son)-Shiny day.
Look all around, there’s nothin but blue skies
Look straight ahead, nothin but blue skies
I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun (Son)-Shiny day.
John Douglas |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 6378
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 7:41 pm: | |
I knew there was warring and division in the SDA churches I attended. I NEVER thought it was due to the adventist theology and EGW. That never crossed my mind. In thinking about it, I always attributed the problems to Satan wanting to divide God's people.
WOW!! How wrong I was.
Diana l |
Bobj
Registered user
Username: Bobj
Post Number: 404
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 8:23 pm: | |
John
I can also say that the thing that bothered me the most about adventism was the lack of assurance. I recall at about age 6 some dear ladies telling a large group of us VBS kids that only about 1 in 20 of us would be saved if Jesus were to come that day . . .
John, I BELIEVED them! It was downstairs in an old school house in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and next to the room where we learning the gospel according to Ellen, was a boiler room with a cement ceiling, and that was where we did our atom bomb drills.
We knew two things. We are at real risk of dying, and we were almost certainly not good enough to be saved.
That about sums up the adventism for me.
Wasn't it great?
Bob |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9309
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:02 pm: | |
Oh, Bob--so true. Those were the two forces that propelled me through my childhood and teens. Actually beyond that as well, but in college I got enough syncretistic teaching that I stopped staying awake at night worrying about having unconfessed sins or accidentally committing the unpardonable sin.
It really was that dismal: "We knew two things. We are at real risk of dying, and we were almost certainly not good enough to be saved. "
Colleen |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 273
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 5:17 am: | |
Not having been raised Adventist, I was unaware of how pervasive Ellen’s influence was in Adventist thinking (even today I find it hard to grasp), as a result, very early (first or second year?) in my Adventist misadventure I found myself at odds with that ‘you can never say you are saved’, but I thought it was a local lunacy, not a church wide heresy. It only took me 34 more years to figure that out.
John |
Cy
Registered user
Username: Cy
Post Number: 66
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:13 am: | |
It's interesting to hear again the crazy stuff we were told as young children in Adventism. Some of the things I heard were so weird I didn't believe them. I grew up with cognitive dissonance as a basic part of life!
So many times we were told to invite friends to church with us, or to take pamphlets and give them to people we knew. I always thought to myself, there's no way any of my friends could believe this. I guess that should have been a warning sign!
Guy |
Surfy
Registered user
Username: Surfy
Post Number: 479
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 7:49 am: | |
I remember asking in academy Bible calss, "How do you know the adventist church isn't Babylon?"
I'm not saying that it is or isn't. It's just that I was questioning doctrines way back then.
Surfy |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 458
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:15 am: | |
Bob said,
"We knew two things. We are at real risk of dying, and we were almost certainly not good enough to be saved."
Bob, that statement upset me all over again last night. It is so true. The first angel has the everlasting gospel to tell to all nations. Gospel means good news! There is absolutely nothing in that scenario that is good news. That is a message of utter hopelessness.
How I pray that Adventists everywhere will once again read the gospel of John - or any of the gospels for that matter all the way through. You will see a message that is unbelievably good news!
Adventist friends, you are partly right! We have bodies that are going to die. We ARE most certainly not good enough. We are separated from God and deserve death and punishment for our sin. You just don't have the end of the story, yet.
Jesus came and died specifically for the purpose of taking the punishment we deserve! He took the punishment for all of our sin - past, present and future. We need to claim that gift through believing in Jesus Christ and placing our trust and hope in Him. Because of what Jesus did, we can proclaim loudly and enthusiastically, "I am saved!" When we get ahold of that fact, and give our lives to Jesus out of gratitude for what He has done our lives change. It's not a "white knuckle it" until the sin is gone. The Holy Spirit works in us gently and gradually making us like Him. That is the good news of the gospel!
The Bible says whosoever believes in Jesus has eternal life. It says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved!
To my FAF friends, I just couldn't leave the bad news without adding the good news. My SDA friends who I've lost all contact with are reading this. I know because of things I've received. |
Bobj
Registered user
Username: Bobj
Post Number: 405
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:58 am: | |
Joyfulheart
Yes, it was true! Absolutely believeable to those of us who knew we weren't good enough . . .
The irony is that not one in 20, nor one in a million is good enough.
I'd like to post something here I put on another site yesterday regarding our assurance:
“If justification is something that is an ongoing process or is something that can be lost and gained again, then it is hardly the imputation of the righteousness of Christ! Is the righteousness of Christ something that can be obliterated or destroyed by the action of men? Is it but a temporal thing that has to be propped up and maintained by the feverish activity of creatures? Is one who stands robed in the righteousness of Christ liable to fall repeatedly from this position? Is one forgiven and lost, forgiven and lost, in a seemingly never ending cycle? Surely not! One who has been justified stands before God uncondemned and uncondemnable--not because of what he is in himself, but because of what Christ is in him.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The reason is clear: all who are “in Christ” partake of His righteousness and have been declared free from the curse of the law, and therefore there can be no possible grounds of condemnation for them. Have they ever transgressed the law? Christ has borne their penalty. Have they failed to love God as they should? Christ has loved the father perfectly in their place. The Judge has declared them just. His Son stands in their place, perfectly righteous. Who can possibly bring a charge, then, against God’s elect (Romand 8:33)?”
from 97,98 of the book The God Who Justifies by James R White (obviously not Ellen’s husband!)
Bob |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 459
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:06 pm: | |
Amen, Bob! What we have is truly good news! |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 614
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:38 pm: | |
That's what "gospel" means. Good news! 
Any church where the people cannot KNOW that they are saved is a false church! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9316
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:37 pm: | |
Great quote, Bob! Asurprise, you're right: "Any church where the people cannot KNOW that they are saved is a false church!"
"I can see clearly now...."
(Thanks for that song, John.)
Colleen |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 274
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 5:56 am: | |
"I can also say that the thing that bothered me the most about adventism was the lack of assurance. I recall at about age 6 some dear ladies telling a large group of us VBS kids that only about 1 in 20 of us would be saved if Jesus were to come that day . . .
John, I BELIEVED them! It was downstairs in an old school house in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and next to the room where we learning the gospel according to Ellen, was a boiler room with a cement ceiling, and that was where we did our atom bomb drills.
We knew two things. We are at real risk of dying, and we were almost certainly not good enough to be saved.
That about sums up the adventism for me.
Wasn't it great?
Bob"
I always thought I was that 'one' and the nineteen were the those sitting next to me
John |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 87
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 8:51 am: | |
John,
It would be interesting to know how many believe they are that one. I would guess it would be more than one out of twenty that felt they were. Not to fault you as a child, but anyone trying to establish their own righteousness wether they feel they have succeeded or failed comes from an position of pride.
Those who feel they have succeeded in estabishing their own righteosness are farthest from the truth, and are very difficult to relate to particuarly if you don't conform to the standard by which they have established themselves.
The Cross is truely a stumbling block for them, because their efforts for which they have worked so hard for, become in essence a "junk bond", worthless credentials, a certificate on the wall that only they, and the simularly deluded recognize as having any value.
Wereby, the "bond of faith" which worketh by love, (not by the dead works of the law) is priceless. The love of Christ Jesus is priceless.
I feel Adventists think we are trying to "short sell" their investment in works, but really we are giving them a rock solid, ground floor oportunity in faith, in the company of the great multitude of believers. Everyone who enters, enters for the same cost, faith in the one who paid the price.
My investment tip for today, and every day, is faith in the righteousness of Christ Jesus.
Chris |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 135
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 9:19 am: | |
quote:It would be interesting to know how many believe they are that one. I would guess it would be more than one out of twenty that felt they were.
Praise God I never had such an illusion. I knew from the time I was a little boy that I couldn't seem to do enough of the right stuff to be one of the 19, even though I didn't think of it in those numerical terms.
When you realize that you can't be good enough to work your way onto God's good side, that is when Adventism really dies for you. |
Agapetos
Registered user
Username: Agapetos
Post Number: 1675
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 6:44 am: | |
Joyfulheart, you wrote:
quote:The first angel has the everlasting gospel to tell to all nations. Gospel means good news!
You know, as I write this now, it occurs to me that the second and third angels were not contradicting the first angel. In other words, the first angel spoke the gospel... and so did the second and third! Just like the words that follow John 3:16 speak of those who do not believe, in the same way the second & third angels speak of those who do not accept the gospel. The "three angels" are angels who are filled with the testimony of Jesus. Their prophetic message testifies to Jesus -- it's a gospel message.
The SDA focus is primarily on the 2nd & 3rd angels, and the SDA teachings produced a message that completely undermined the everlasting gospel. The first angel was not understood... how then could the second and third angels be understood?
Blessings in Jesus and His good news!
Ramone |
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