| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2008 |
I recently came out of Adventism and became a born again Christian. I realize I am still a baby Christian, but I am amazed at how Jesus really is the entire foundation of Christian belief. It all fits together in Him and there isn't some truth outside of Him. The cross and the empty tomb are always the center pieces of good Christian teaching. When I was an SDA, it seemed like Jesus was some extra appendage. He really wasn't talked about very much. The cross and the resurrection really didn't have a deep influence on the theology. Jesus was clearly not the focus. Whenever an SDA talked about Jesus, they always had to bring it back to the law. In Christian theology, the Law of Moses points to Jesus. In SDA theology, Jesus points to the Law of Moses. So yesterday I realized something: The only reason SDA theology needs Jesus is so they have someone who can go from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844. He has no other deep-seated impact on any theological area in Adventism as practiced. (Message edited by bskillet on December 10, 2008) | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2008 |
Bskillet said... "In Christian theology, the Law of Moses points to Jesus. In SDA theology, Jesus points to the Law of Moses." Precisely on this I had been thinking lately... I got this picture on my mind, that if I had to follow that kind of thinking then I would be standing between the Law and Jesus, in the middle. The Law pointing to Jesus... But then Jesus is pointing back to the Law. Hence, where do I go? I'm just moving in the middle, bouncing between one and the other. In the end I'm just standing still, not advancing at all... Dead? Within all the pictures and paintings produced by the SDA church thorugh the years, isn't there some images of Jesus showing the tables of the 10 commandments and, well, I think that the 4th commandment is glowing? I suppose something pretty similar to that EGW vision... I remember seeing something like that in church for years. I only can imagine the reality this way: with the Law pointing towards Jesus, and then He is just waiting there for me, with His open arms, so I can have a direction to move forward and finally be safe. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2543 Registered: 10-2004  |
Bskillet, great post! Martin, EGW actually wrote something just like what you said:
Incredible, huh?! Jeremy | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 343 Registered: 7-2008  |
So..the christian then becomes as a ping pong ball? Bouncing from one end of the table to the other end..lol lol lol lol lol Animal...Im getting dizzy !!!! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2544 Registered: 10-2004 |
Exactly!  Adventism = insanity. Jeremy | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2008 |
That was what it was like for me. Constantly bouncing between the loving Lord and the condemnation of Sinai. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6122 Registered: 3-2004  |
I call it on and off again salvation. When I did something good I had salvation. Five seconds later I had a fight with a brother or sister or was angry at my Mom or Dad, then I had lost my salvation. This carried over into my marriage. EGW really did a number there with all her "counsel". Again, on and off again salvation. Thank God Jesus gently pulled me out of adventism and I no longer think like that. I know Jesus now and He is my salvation. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9117 Registered: 12-2003  |
Really good insight, Bskillet. Jesus has only one main function in Adventism: to move from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844—and to point people back to the law. Exactly!! Jeremy, amazing quote. She actually says it... Colleen | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2007  |
I love this paragraph!
This was the painful reality that started to wake me up to the true nature of the Hebrew Roots movement as well. This character trait is even stronger in that movement - so much so that people start to gradually accept he wasn't God, and then, not the Messiah at all. I believe both Adventism and the HRM are driven by the same spirit. As I've gone back and read some of EGW writings, I have been amazed at so many parallels with Judaism's mindset - and find it no small wonder I found the HRM so comfortable - even though I should have known better! We at first rationalized that we were going to understand Jesus better by learning about Hebrew culture and "thought" - (anyone claiming to teach you Hebrew thought is not teaching from the Bible, but from Kabballah and Talmud, but they won't tell you that - just like SDA's won't tell new converts they are being spoon fed EGW.) In the end, Jesus had NOTHING to do with our practice of faith, our discussion, our worship. We were not motivated out of love for Jesus in anything we did, but instead to promote an "ism" and our own identity within it. It IS all about Jesus, and I love this time of year - trying to wrap my brain around the incarnation of God - as a man. The humility of that act is so mind blowing - and that he would choose a young girl of no importance in the eyes of men, and live under the shadow of being considered illegitimate. Lots to think about - some of it - for the very first time - for me! Sondra | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 386 Registered: 1-2006  |
Jeremy Your quote is amazing. Heart breaking. If there's ever a quote that illustrates a lack of understanding the gospel, Ellen wins with this one. My heart aches for my friends who live like I used to live—putting on a mask but living in fear and uncertainty. I’m talking about real people, personal friends, who are getting old, and who desperately need Someone to break their bonds and set them free. We worship an all powerful Savior. Not one of the elect will perish. Praising Him now . . . Bob | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2008 |
Sometimes they'll have rabbis on the History Channel documentaries to explain parts of the OT. These guys will make some claim and I'll think, "Um, have the ever actually read the text they're trying to explain?" I think your statement clarifies the reason for me: Human tradition and reasoning. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3852 Registered: 9-2006  |
Bob, I do think that most Adventist are justified in having fear and uncertainty. Basically I think it is the conscience warning a person that they are unprepared to meet God.With out Christ we all are unprepared to meet God face to face. They claim to pray to God, they say words, my question is are they praying to the real God or a God of their own making and manufacture. In other words a God the human brain has concocted. I would be only too glad for someone to explain to me how I am wrong about this. I'm with you old friend, good buddy, pal, tell me that my uneasiness is without foundation. I got friends too Bob who are up into their 70's and 80's, as the saying goes, one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Croon to me Bob and maybe my troubled heart will ease. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9119 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, what an insightful observation. I'd never thought of it exactly like that. I believe you are right. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling a person's spirit and witnessing that they are children of God, they WILL have fear and uncertainty. So true. Colleen | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 249 Registered: 4-2007 |
"I do think that most Adventist are justified in having fear and uncertainty. Basically I think it is the conscience warning a person that they are unprepared to meet God." If an Adventist takes his beliefs seriously he could not possibly have any assurance of salvation. For those Adventists who do have assurance of salvation it’s because they’ve chucked practically all of their Denomination’s theology and just kept (sort of) the Sabbath part. John Douglas | ||
| Sparrow Registered user Username: Sparrow Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2008  |
I knew I needed Jesus when I was very young. I remember having complete confidence in Jesus, a full assurance of my salvation and the promise of being with Him throughout eternity at age 9 years. I started SDA school in 4th grade (1963) a few months afterwards, and made it through the 1st half of 10th grade (1969) before getting kicked out. Somehow I grew up without fear and uncertainty. Lots of disappointment with my SDA institutions and teachers, but no fear. I think I had already developed a personal relationship with the Lord that carried me through. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 3864 Registered: 9-2006 |
From what you just said I am sure you did Sparrow and I thank God for that. I do think that may be an exception though. The Bible says that His spirit bears witness with our Spirit that we are the children of God. To me that right there allays fear and uncertainty. I am not talking about times of uncertainty I am sure most Christians go through, I have, I am talking about that certain fear and uncertainty which results from not knowing the true Christ, a fear of certain coming judgment that the conscience warns of. Not having true faith that we cannot cry Abba Father is a most serious matter it would seem to me for it seems to foretell of coming judgment. In considering Bible text I always consider the opposite whereas Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: The opposite of that is “the Spirit does not bear witness with our spirit that we are the children of God..” Example: He found food and lived. He did not find food. It is not necessary to add the statement “He did not live.” And even though the statement is not there it still stands. The second statement: “The Spirit does not bear witness” is the very opposite of faith it would seem to me. The Spirit bears witness through peace with God. River | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1550 Registered: 4-2000  |
The following inspiring song, penned by Bill Gaither in 1962, well represents the testimony of many former Adventists: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIgErxNu6X4) Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6134 Registered: 3-2004 |
"He touched me, Oh He touched me and oh the joy that floods my soul". Yes that is what God did for each of us. He touched me and made me whole. Praise God!!! Thanks for that link Dennis. Diana L | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 384 Registered: 10-2006 |
Amen. How I praise God that He DID touch me and make me whole! I've always loved that song. Thanks for the link Dennis!) I think "Knowing You (All I Once Held Dear)" and "He Touched Me" could almost be our FAF theme songs. Has anyone heard "What sin?" by Morgan Cryer? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6135 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have been sitting here at my computer singing along with the Gaithers "He Touched Me" for the past hour. I go over and over it and tears are coming to my eyes because Jesus touched me. Thank you Dennis for reminding me that Jesus touched me. Diana L |
