| Author | Message | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1215 Registered: 3-2009 |
Two more verses for reconciliation. (Rom 14:23 ASV) But he that doubteth is condemned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith; and whatsoever is not of faith is sin . (Gal 3:12 ASV) and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. If whatever is not of faith is sin and the law is not of faith, is then the law sin? Hec | ||
| Gorancroatia Registered user Username: Gorancroatia Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2010 |
There is other verse where is stated that "the power of the sin is Law", if you check difirent Bibles I think you find that in Rom 14:23 "faith" means "conviction". For Gal 3:12 you can compare Rom 10. and see that there is two different ways of righteousness - by deeds of Law and by faith in God who brought Christ Jesus from heaven and rise Him again. (Message edited by GoranCroatia on August 05, 2010) | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 735 Registered: 8-2008 |
Gal. 3:12 means that those who live by the law do not seek righteousness before God by faith, but rather by attaining it through their own performance. This is impossible. So those who are under the law are under sin before God. The Law itself, as Paul says elsewhere, is holy, just, and good. But that is the problem. We are not, and if we try to become holy, just, and good by keeping the Law, we fail. So we simply show ourselves that we are not holy, just, and good. When we are under sin, we see the goodness of the Law, and attempt to use the Law to justify ourselves. Attempting to be justified by the Law is death. As Paul says in Romans 10, it is both impossible and it keeps one from accepting and trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation. (Message edited by bskillet on August 06, 2010) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11526 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great explanation, Bskillet! Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2224 Registered: 5-2007  |
Here is where Paul introduces this topic in Romans: What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. (Rom. 7:7-14 ESV) Fearless Phil | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 2070 Registered: 4-2000  |
Hec, Romans 14:23 indicates that when a weak brother violates his conscience, he sins. Moreover, "whatever is not from faith," the conscience condemns. Galatians 3:12 teaches that "the law is not of faith." Justification by faith and justication by keeping the law are mutually exclusive, as Paul's OT quote from Leviticus 18:5 proves. Faith in Christ alone releases people from bondage to law, whether the Mosaic Law, or the law written on the hearts of Gentiles (Romans 2:14-16). The law was our tutor, which by showing us our sins, was escorting us to Christ. Believers, through faith in Jesus, have come of age as God's children. Thus, they are not under the tutelage of the law (Rom. 6:14), although they are still obligated to obey God's holy and unchanging righteous standards which are now given authority in the new covenant. "Christ redeemed us from the CURSE of the law" (Gal. 3:13), and not from our duty to obey His revealed will for our lives. The Spirit-led life never contradicts, opposes, nor weakens the written Word, but rather enables, interprets, and upholds all moral teachings therein. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dragonfly Registered user Username: Dragonfly Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2010 |
Adventist are so concerned about sunday keepers. Why then are they not concerned about warning people about the snar satan has set up with world holidyas. Christmas Easter New years all these are Pegan Roman church added Babylon worship. Since we Know God made his own Holy calander his true plan for salvation shouldn't they be more focuse on truth. They say the Holy days no longer apply then neither would the Holy convecation commanded on the sabbath apply. We know the bible says do not forsake assembly and since Gods Holy days are a beginning to end plan of salvation shouldn't those commandments be taught.Insead of continually up lifthing the people about doing on of the commandments they need to take the time to seek the spiritual meaning to the Holy feast. That is worship in spirit and truth. | ||
| Dragonfly Registered user Username: Dragonfly Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2010 |
The Holy Feast are the true faith in Christ the true spirit of Prophecy. The chruch who does not bow to the world wide false system of holidays for that is satans plan of death and Gods Holy days is his beginning to end plan of salvation focus point on Jesus Christ and his mercy and faithfulness. The Adventis teach that Gods Holy days are nailed to the cross. Who but the evil one would want us to believe his plan of salvation was complete. As I see it the plan has three steps left. If satan can get everyone to blieve this was ceramoinal then they discard them and do not seek spiritual meaning. The Holy days are commanment to repent and have faith Christ is our righcheousness. When I tired to show them letting the bible speak for it self they gave the same argument that any sunday keeper would have given them. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6614 Registered: 9-2006  |
What the hell are you yammering about? | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1299 Registered: 3-2009 |
Oh, oh. Watch out Dragonfly. We did not warned you about road kill. Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3368 Registered: 10-2004  |
Dragonfly, If you wish to preach a false gospel of works salvation, go somewhere else. You are not welcome here. Jeremy | ||
| Dragonfly Registered user Username: Dragonfly Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2010 |
Wow I thought we were all fellow Christians on this site. If you misunderstood what I wrote then kindly explain. Fist off God laid down HIS plan to salvation with his Holy Feast. I did not preach to you anything new. His ture plan of repentance and fait in Chirst there is no work to be done it has been done at the cross. Kindly show me the earer of my way that I may go and pray about it. I am truly seeking truth and I will keep you as well in my prayers. | ||
| Dragonfly Registered user Username: Dragonfly Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2010 |
OKay forgive me I took all of my thoughts and put them all together. This is my first time ever on a discussion board. Have mercy and just explain I wrote way to much all at once. That would be the kind thing to do. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11618 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dragonfly, the New Testament explains why we no longer keep the feasts. The feasts, including the Sabbath, were fulfilled in Jesus, and the new covenant does not deal with the shadows of feasts and Sabbaths (Col 2:16-17) or of the law (Heb 10:1). We are not here just because we're not Adventists; we're here because we have found Jesus to be our Sabbath rest and the reality toward which ALL the shadows of feasts and law pointed. We live in and for Him. He gives us HIS righteousness; we don't give Him ours by keeping feasts. Jesus fulfilled the feasts; they are now obsolete. The spiritual meaning of the feasts was realized in the Lord Jesus. Our lives simply are not for the purpose of keeping laws and days. We are here for God's glory, and He is glorified when we trust Jesus and receive His Spirit in ours, causing us to become spiritually alive. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11619 Registered: 12-2003 |
One more thing before I sleep...I love it that the forum members here are outspoken for the gospel. There are relatively few places where love for Jesus and devotion to His word is so real and intense. This reality makes me very thankful. At the same time, I want to urge us all to speak respectfully. I'm not asking anyone to be soft on the gospel or to let heresy slip by. And one of the facts on which I lean as a forum member myself is that not all the responsibility for defending the gospel lands on my shoulders. Many of you don't interact as I do with the Webmaster (ahem...Richard!)...but I can tell you that I continually give thanks to God that, although Richard is publicly a bit quiet, he is one of the most discerning people I know...and he will deal with heresy if we can't manage to deal with it among ourselves. I suppose one reason I'm saying all this is that in a completely different venue and on a totally different subject I've been dealing with responding to something driven by an undercurrent of disrespect if not outright rebellion. I have been really struggling to know how to address it...the dynamics are complicated...and I have been realizing that God did a wonderful thing when He gave us a model for spiritual protection and authority on whom we can lean. And on this forum, if things seem alarming, we can all appeal to Richard to check it out in case something got past us. He is God's protection for us all here, and he's only an email away. Sigh...this learning to live responsibly and compassionately and under authority is new and sometimes difficult--but amazingly comforting and empowering. Oh--and for you who might be looking for a place to stir things up or to argue or spread about spurious doctrine—Don't! We're here to take Scripture seriously and to worship the Lord Jesus as the fulfillment of all the laws, prophets, and Psalms--the fulfillment of all shadows. We stand in the light! Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1372 Registered: 7-2007 |
Dragonfly; welcome to the forum!  River; please ease up on the language.  A Christian who knows his/her Bible is not a Sunday KEEPER. Jesus is our Sabbath Rest now! (Colossians 2:16,17) And Dragonfly, you're right that Christmas and Easter come from paganism. (Jeremiah 10:3,4) "Easter" comes from the name of a pagan "godess" who according to the story if I remember right, got pregnant about that time and nine months later on Decemeber 25 gave birth to the sun "god." I don't think it's worth arguing with people over because people don't WORSHIP the tree or the pagan symbols. Therefore I don't believe it's a salvation issue. (I myself try to ignore the Dec. 25th day but it's hard because I have non-Christian relatives who invite me over. Since it's a non-salvation issue, I try not to make an issue of their celebration of that day. As for Easter, I don't call it that. I call it Resurrection Sunday. A friend of mine has a brother who's an athiest who gets a big laugh out of Christians celebrating those days!) Dragonfly, you said Jesus' plan of salvation has three steps left????? That doesn't make sense. The Bible says very clearly that when a person believes on Jesus, they are SAVED! John 10:27,28; Acts 16:30,31; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2nd Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5; 1st John 2:12 - among others. That's the theme of the New Covenant - believe on Jesus and you will be saved. ALL the cults add to that! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1302 Registered: 3-2009 |
Jeremy, didn't you go a little too far? Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3369 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hec, yes, I did go a little too far, as far as this not being my forum, and I acknowledge what Colleen said and I defer to Richard on that. I apologize, Richard, for crossing that line. But Hec, as far as my actual sentiments/language, I definitely do not think that I went too far. See what the apostles, such as Paul, said to false teachers, and what the entire NT says about/to them--it isn't nearly as respectful as what me or River said. (And personally, speaking for myself, I didn't find what River said to be wrong.) Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on August 29, 2010) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3370 Registered: 10-2004 |
By the way, as far as welcoming false teachers, the apostle John says: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds." (2 John 1:10-11 NASB.) Jeremy | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1303 Registered: 3-2009 |
And why is Dragonfly catalog as a "false teacher" for having different views? Aren't all questions welcome and answered? I just don't see the difference between Dragonfly and others who say what they think about different topics. Maybe I'm not seeing enough and you are. Hec |
