| Author | Message | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hi all. Firstly my apologies for the following long-winded post. A week or so ago, after posting a few lines on the FAF Facebook page, I received a personal message from a person I have never met before. I have posted their messages and mine. In the end I didn't respond to the last message. I figured I was never going to get anywhere. Did I approach this correctly? Would you have said anything different? My apologies if the formatting is a bit screwed up, too. I've just cut & pasted from facebook.... Steve Kelsey Thomas 09 August at 16:28 Report My name is Kelsey. I am a SDA and have been all my life. I had questions as well, we all have questions, but God will answer them like he has for me. I have learned so much in the last few months! From what I've found, I believe in more strongly now than I did before. Here are a few websites about Ellen White. I don't believe she is a false prophet. http://www.ellengwhitetruth.com/ http://www.ellen-white.com/Contradictions.html http://sdaforme.com/ http://amazingfacts.org/ From what I found: She quotes scripture throughout her books. She gave praise to God whenever she could. She brought so many people to Christ back in her day to present day. From experience, I have found that when believers don't go to church for a long period of time they loose faith and have major questions about God. That's when Satan enters and puts those thoughts in your mind. He loves when believers question their faith. God won't come until you call on him. He doesn't push. His Book (the Bible) is your path, your guide. When you know the Bible you know God, you know his character. When Satan temps you, you can tell if it's from God or Satan. Satan is that voice that whispers bad thoughts, call on God and Satan will leave, God will enter. Find God, get peace in your life. DON'T LOSE FAITH! Please feel free to email me if you have any questions. Kelsey Ellen G White Truth > Home www.ellengwhitetruth.com Have you heard about Ellen G. White? Well, not many have — which is pretty amazing considering her extraordinary influence on Christian faith, literature, and practice for more than 180 years. This website has been created to introduce you to a woman who experienced a unique and remarkable life comm... Share. Steve Walkom 09 August at 20:39 Hi Kelsey. I'm not quite sure how you got my details...perhaps you saw a comment I made somewhere here on Facebook. Thanks for your comments, and I'm sure you mean well, but I am really steering away from SDA, especially as I'm starting to see the "cultishness" of our church. I no longer believe that EGW is all she is reported to be. I certainly do not believe she was a true prophet. Prophets would not steal the writings of others an pass them off as messages from God.....and then lie about the fact. I also dare you to try to explain the investigative judgement teachings from the Bible alone. I guess what I'm also seeing is that the SDA is far too works based. The bible clearly states that our salvation is based on belief alone. Why do we make it so hard??!! Anyway, thanks, and all the best. Steve . Kelsey Thomas 10 August at 07:07 Report I was responding to you from one of the former SDA FB pages. I don't believe at all its a cult. I'm not sure what church you went to but we don't believe in works based. Catholics believe in that. Good works don't get you into heaven. GRACE BY FAITH, NOT GRACE BY WORKS. We will be judged. Jesus is our judge and defender. We haven't gotten away from judgment. Our sins aren't in the book, it's how our faith is to God. Satan can get us on his side if we aren't careful. That is in the Bible. It's all over the New Testament. I read it for myself, also if you read this site it might help you understand. http://sdaforme.com/Default.aspx?PageID=2870153&A=SearchResult&SearchID=1124566&ObjectID=2870153&ObjectType=1 You are right, it is a bit confusing, but for me it does make sense. That's just me. People take it or leave it. Can you explain against it? What people don't understand is that before Jesus died, people accounted for their sins by sacrificing animals. Jesus died on the cross as our sacrificial lamb. If the commandments were done away with then we wouldn't have no more sin, no more satan, but we still do. The law was to show us our sins. Sin separated us from God, but Jesus died on the cross for us to bond us to God. (Meaning of Salvation: Being rescued from danger; being saved from sin and its punishment.) If Jesus didn't die on the cross we would be punished, what was punishment, death, eternal death. "Because she included such selections from other authors in her writings, critics have charged Ellen White with plagiarism. But the mere use of another's language does not constitute literary theft, as noted by Attorney Vincent L. Ramik, a specialist in patent, trademark, and copyright cases. After researching about 1,000 copyright cases in American legal history, Ramik issued a 27-page legal opinion in which he concluded "Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy." Ramik points out several factors that critics of Ellen White's writings have failed to take into account when accusing her of literary theft or deceit. 1) Her selections "stayed well within the legal boundaries of 'fair use.'" 2) "Ellen White used the writings of others; but in the way she used them, she made them uniquely her own"--adapting the selections into her own literary framework. 3) Ellen White urged her readers to get copies of some of the very books she made use of--demonstrating that she did not attempt to conceal the fact of her use of literary sources, and that she had no intention to defraud or supersede the works of any other author. Ellen White "did not copy wholesale or without discrimination. What she selected or did not select, and how she altered what she selected" reveals that she used literary sources "to amplify or to state more forcefully her own transcending themes; she was the master, not the slave, of her sources" (Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, p. 461). See also The Truth about the White Lie." QUOTE FROM http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/faq-egw.html#faq-section-b4 I have learned so much and researched so much that it all makes sense to me. I do read all the criticism, but I go back to the Bible and the Bible says different than what critics say. Critics us some part of the verse, but don't look at the chapter. It's part truth, not all of the truth. Walk in God always, Kelsey Jesus, Yes - Judgement, No? sdaforme.com Share Steve Walkom 10 August at 09:59 I do believe SDA is more a faith + works based organisation. So much emphasis is placed on Sabbath keeping, diet, etc, as a way of gaining salvation that it takes away from the gift of salvation given at Calvary.... Interesting justification of plagiarism, Kelsy. What you say may be true, and justify 'legally' what she did, but how do you justify using words/ideas etc from other peoples writings and saying "I was shown" as if it was all given to her by a vision from God? Also, a true prophet would have their predictions come true, and would not contradict the bible, would they? We might have to agree to disagree.  . Kelsey Thomas 10 August at 16:47 Report I like Sabbath keeping. I don't have to think about paying bills, work, etc. I can rest and not worry about the things that I need to do. I can worry the next day, because it will get done. There are a lot of non Adventists that place diet above all. For me I don't like pork. I think it tastes like rotten meat. I eat beef, chicken and fish. A lot of SDA does they are not all vegetarian. Your body is God's do you want to ruin that? Did you know that Adventists live longer? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0511/feature1/ For me it doesn't take it away. It enhances my walk with him. I am great full for everything that he has done for me and my family. I rely on him for everything. Critics are everywhere, on the news, on the web. But is it all true? Most of the time, they select things that they want you to hear. At the time of her death Ellen White's literary productions totaled approximately 100,000 pages: 24 books in current circulation; two book manuscripts ready for publication; 5,000 periodical articles in the journals of the church; more than 200 tracts and pamphlets; approximately 35,000 typewritten pages of manuscript documents and letters; 2,000 handwritten letters and diary materials comprising, when copied, another 15,000 typewritten pages. Compilations made after her death from Ellen White's writings bring the total number of books currently in print to more than 130. Do you think she plagiarized every single book she wrote? How do you know her predictions didn't come true? Did you research it yourself or did someone tell you. She doesn't contradict the Bible. Did you read one of her books with Bible in hand? You need to read http://www.ellen-white.com/Contradictions.html it will show her writing, the Bible writing and the interpretation. Her favorite Bible was King James Version (remember, this was back in the late 1800's. It's not the Bible versions we read today) I'm sorry you feel that way. It may not be for everyone. People change churches all the time. People go where God leads them and where they feel comfortable. If you didn't feel comfortable then hopefully God will lead you where you need to go. Nobody should tell someone what they believe is wrong. God will make that judgment. Good luck to you, Kelsey Ellen White Alleged Contradictions www.ellen-white.com UPDATE 6/18/06: The response below was written in the Spring of 2000, researched and compiled by several of our volunteers (and also including some excellent points/material/input from visitors who emailed us; we appreciate the feedback). Since then the two gentlemen who created the original "C... Share | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 492 Registered: 5-2009 |
The lawyer, Vincent Ramik, was hired and paid for by the sda church. He really didn't answer any of your questions. She absolutely contradicts the Bible. He's relying on what the church tells him. If anyone writes down info that they say was shown them by God and it's actually coming from another author....what else would you call it but an untruth? | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 678 Registered: 11-2007 |
"...What she selected or did not select, and how she altered what she selected" reveals that she used literary sources "to amplify or to state more forcefully her own transcending themes; she was the master, not the slave, of her sources" (Herbert E. Douglass, Messenger of the Lord, p. 461). That is a troubling statement on a few different levels. Surfy | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 888 Registered: 2-2008  |
"Nobody should tell someone what they believe is wrong." Then why is she trying to convince you that egw is a prophet? vivian | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2010  |
I think you responded beautifully. I, too, have had to agree to disagree several times and just walk away. Pat | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1760 Registered: 6-2006  |
Steve, like many SDA's I know, this person's faith is in their church and prophet. They're a talking head for the organization and using Jesus to support the SDA church with fear (Jesus will judge!). Give me a break. You did all you needed to do. It's good to be consistant in what you say instead of following them into a bottomless rabbit hole. Funny, if they really believe that you should follow God where he leads you, then there would be no reason to hunt you down and challenge you on facebook... Leigh Anne | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1358 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, I would do whatever I could to continue believing that way, because I really was convinced it was the truth. I'd review the "proof" texts that I didn't know were taken out of context and I'd review the "miracles" that Ellen White did (not breathing during her visions, holding up that heavy Bible), forgetting that Catholics have their "miracles" and that demons will work miracles in the last day. If I had remembered where Revelation 16:14 talks about demons working miracles in the end, it wouldn't have bothered me. I'd just think that of course the "one true church" had the true miracles. Come to think of it, I DID wonder why God did such obvious miracles through Christian leaders such as Dwight L. Moody, when they weren't Adventist and why other Christians had such obviously close walks with God. I would just excuse that, saying to myself "God hasn't led them into the TRUTH yet." Sometimes I'd be jealous when a non-Adventist Christian would have a wonderful close walk with God that I lacked; but usually I avoided reading such stories, preferring to read stories put out by Pacific Press; so mainly I didn't notice what sort of walk a Christian was supposed to have with God. I'd just read the Pacific Press stories where someone would become an SDA and embrace the SABBATH!!! | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 269 Registered: 2-2007 |
I remember thinking to myself many times...if Billy Graham is such a great evangelist and man of God why doesn't he keep the sabbath? Now I know.... | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2010 |
Lucybugg, I use to wonder the exact same thing. I had a problem with Billy Graham being lost because he didn't keep the 7th day sabbath. Under his ministry people came to God in the thousands and He preached the gospel without all of the Adventist extras to be accepted. I have a minister friend who is a former Adventist and he told me of an occasion when a woman wanted to be baptized when he was still an SDA pastor. She was dressed in her baptism garb and one of the deaconesses noticed that she had on her wedding ring. They actually went and got some soap to try to ease it off her finger to no avail. Bottom line: They refused to baptize her. He said he always felt guilty about it. I hope she discovered how God was intervening in her life. SDAs say and sing certain words but in truth they are just empty words... rote without thinking or comprehending. The Holy Spirit is not given full reign in individual lives because the church feels it has the right to lead and guide the people in the way they should go and the people feel it their duty to follow. I blindly followed for decades but I thank God for His patience, love and compassion for me. His timing for my departure was all too perfect and He has my unending praise. Praise Him! Pat | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1761 Registered: 6-2006 |
I guess it boils down to, who or what are you pointing to? When the disciples went out and spread the gospel, did they have a special denomination to which they lead people? Did they baptize people with stipulations and conditions? Did these people have to accept and declare Paul as a prophet in order to be baptized? No way!! They pointed people straight to Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection. The SDA church, it's members and Ellen White all point to the SDA organization. They don't lead people to Christ, they lead people to "the Sabbath Truth" and the "Health Message". They They use Jesus' name to promote their beliefs. It makes them feel exclusive, and special and ultimately, responsible for their own salvation. Point to Jesus, People!! Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6552 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: then there would be no reason to hunt you down and challenge you on facebook... Yeah, I hunted yall down on facebook, and look where it got me? Now I'm hooked on facebook! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1762 Registered: 6-2006 |
HA!! River, you love it. And I love knowing you're there and seeing your friendly face now and again. me | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 939 Registered: 12-2007 |
Leigh Anne, I TOTALLY agree with your post #1761 above ! They point people NOT to Jesus Christ but to a DAY, and to a way of life. It makes them feel Special, "Gods true remnant", and like you said,, "Exclusive" that is a BIG problem ! They should not be Exclusive but INCLUSIVE. They want to feel they are "set apart" with the blessing of God. 'professing themselves to be wise, they became fools'...... 'they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator' Romans 1:20-25 (American Standard Version) 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thankyou all for your replies. I have not responded to this person again, as I feel I may as well be communicating with a brick wall. | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 90 Registered: 5-2009 |
You are dealing with a brick wall Stevew. Eze 13:1-16 talks about the wall & says that God can & will bring it down to the ground. Throughout Ez & other parts of the Bible God assures us that HE will tear down & rebuild on a solid foundation. HE does all of it. Keep praying & being open for the teachable moments, for times to sow seeds. We all want to see results, & quickly. We turn to God & cry to Him & He does it all. J9 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6592 Registered: 9-2006 |
Huh! I was just rereading Stevew's post. I read it a couple times, and all of a sudden this statement she made grabbed my attention. The brick wall said, "When you know the Bible you know God, you know his character." I am wondering how many of you agree with this statement? Now don't everbody answer at once. But I'm really curious if people on the forum believe this. Also, the brick wall said, "She wouldn't do THAT." Referring of course to Ellen White Plagiarizing of others work. But the fact is, she did do it! And not only that, but claimed it was from the Lord, and not her. The way child molesters get away with molesting a child, is many times because some one had the thought, "Oh, he or she would not do that!" Then the answer comes back, "I didn't think he or she would do THAT!" Brick walls shouldn't even be trying to communicate, but they do, "Oh, but a brick wall wouldn't say THAT!" But they do. The persons writings (I'm done having fun with the brick wall) sound so familiar it make e tired to read it. River | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 783 Registered: 7-2004 |
River, all I know about God is that He is Good. The Bible helps me see a pin-hole of what God is like, but I feel like God's character is way beyond my ability to fathom. She is probably saying that Jesus revealed God's character to us when he was on earth, i.e. He is our example. That's what knowing God is to an adventist. Follow everything Jesus did except when he ate meat and fish. |
