| Author | Message | ||
| Anewman Registered user Username: Anewman Post Number: 135 Registered: 5-2011 |
Speaking of trying not to get angry, I had the pleasure of going to the Christmas Progam at my SDA wife's church. Of course, it started with Lucifer in heaven deceiving 1/3 of the Angels, and of course with Lucifer and God calling Jesus Michael. I wanted to vomit. Then, about 2/3 of the way through it, when God was getting ready to send "Michael" to earth, "Michael" lamented how he would be giving up his divinity and wondering if he could resist Lucifer on earth because Lucifer was so strong and cunning. Very hard to stomach. I know it has been discussed here, but can someone walk me through the whole "Michael" thing and how you refute it? Thanks all. | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2014  |
For starters, would you call God the Father an "archangel"? How about the Holy Spirit? Only a semi-Arian doctrine of the Godhead could ever refer to Jesus as such. To real Christians, Jesus has all of the infinite attributes of divinity. Angels (archangels included) are created entities, not infinite beings. Perhaps someone else has the time to walk through the text of Scripture, and deal with the specific occurrences in which Adventists confuse Michael with Jesus. It is probably because EGW refers to him as such that this doctrine is held so dear ... | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2205 Registered: 6-2006  |
Anewman, that is the most insane thing I've ever heard! I'm assuming this was a traditional SDA church? If I were you I'd write a letter to those people. Unbelievable. How is that even a Christmas program? It's completely unbiblical! | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2014 |
Here is an article from "Spectrum" magazine, an Adventist paper which, as far as I know, is not directly connected to their General Conference. In fact, though staunchly Adventist, the paper often challenges cherished and long-held SDA views and status-quo. Take what you will from the article; it does not offer a solid answer either way. I found it a helpful summary of the Biblical occurrences of Michael, however. https://spectrummagazine.org/article/ross-winkle/2012/08/20/jesus-and-archangel I don't think Adventists are the first in Christian history to make a connection between Jesus and Michael; they are perhaps the first to insist that they are one and the same (at least in the world of ideas I was raised in). (Message edited by leifl on December 18, 2017) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3549 Registered: 7-2007 |
Anewman; here are a couple verses. Daniel 10:13 which calls Michael "one of the chief princes," and Jude 1:9. These were the verses that made me willing to look into whether or not the SDA church was false! | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 182 Registered: 3-2014 |
Jude 1:9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” It seems obvious obvious in this verse that Michael did not have the authority to rebuke Satan ... the authority of his rebuke was derived from "the Lord". Jude uses the term "Lord" for Jesus in verses 4, 14, 17, 21 and 25. Obviously, "Michael" is a different being than the "the Lord" whose name was invoked to rebuke the Devil, and who Jude refers to as the person of Jesus (though with his pre-incarnate form and identity during the Michael incident). It's a wonder anyone could be confused on this point. Reading the book of Jude with this in mind has really clarified this issue for me - not that I was in doubt, but I am much clearer now that I can easily defend the point. (Message edited by leifl on December 20, 2017) (Message edited by leifl on December 20, 2017) |
