| Author |
Message |
Darrell
Registered user
Username: Darrell
Post Number: 140
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 11:03 am: |     |
Colleen, I read the article you linked and was amazed by the amount of parallels between the NAR movement and adventism, in things like last generation theology, the deity of Christ, and the interpretation of the letters to the churches in Revelation, for example. The same old lies just get recycled! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 15227
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 11:36 am: | |
Isn't that the truth, Darrell?! I read that article for the first time about a year and a half ago, and it surprised me, too. The parallels are amazing, and it really reveals the root of the Adventist movement. There is truly nothing new under the sun.
It's always good to "hear" from you!
Colleen |
Thalarian
Registered user
Username: Thalarian
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 2:56 am: | |
In a recent speech event at a local Colorado Springs SDA church, Mr. Carson spoke of things he intended to do if elected President. Mr. Carson has gotten smart, he had his bully boys (and that what they are) forced people to keep their cellphones turned off, no recording devices and no video and no press inside the church unless he authorized it. (the press were his people and adventist so anything shown on national/internet media was altered).
A Catholic friend who went and listen to his speech was horrified at some of things he would like to see happen.
She equated his speech to the same type of speech that Adolf Hitler gave in the 1930's before he was elected leader of Germany.
And the congregation clapped and said AMEN!! Loud and clear..
One question was asked about social security and the disable. His reply (not shown on national/internet media) was that he would get rid of the IRS, keep social security but get rid of Social Security Disability for he believes that God only allows perfect humans in heaven so therefore all disabled should be put to death in a humane fashion.
When asked about the war disable, his reply was the same that they should be put to death since disabled will not be allowed into the Kingdom God.
(This is wrong on so many levels, The Bible clearly states that all --- ALL humans have a chance of salvation. And yet this dangerous dogma that Mr. Carson believes is based on the bias writings of Ellen G. White.
As for a Saturday Law, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Why because what Adventists have forgotten is that the Non-Adventist Americans outnumber the Adventist members by a very wide margin and unless Ben Carson wants a Civil War on his hands, he better not even blink or think of trying to impose any sort of legislation that would removed the american right to practice their religion.
The sad part of this, is that my elderly mother and her fellow church members of Longmont SDA church are now firmly on getting Mr. Carson elected President, for a church that believed in the Bible only to make a complete turn around indicates to me how strong the devil is in his guile to deceive others.
If he does get elected, then it was by the Will of God that he was elected and God may have chosen him to bring about the last events of human history. That is what I firmly believe, God is in charge, only way for Mr. Carson were to get elected would be that God allowed it happen for a reason.
For all the talk about religion and politics and what might happened, we humans have forgotten or chose to be blind to it. Is that GOD IS IN CHARGE OF HUMAN HISTORY.
------------------
My personal motto:
Pray you be among the dead, for the living will suffer in the hell on earth that is coming whether we are ready or not.
God will choose who will be witness during the final days, not us humans for we humans are not capable of making that decision. Only God knows.
------------- |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 3161
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 5:11 am: | |
Thalarian,
These are pretty serious claims you are making as to what Ben Carson may have said or done. Unless you are a witness to these charges and have some evidence to go with it you shouldn't be saying these things about him. Remember, according to Scripture, you need two or more witnesses before you bring a charge of wrong doing against someone. This means we need to examine the credibility of the witnesses before we react to the allegation of his apparent wrong doing.
Fearless Phil
(Message edited by philharris on September 14, 2015) |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 3162
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 5:52 am: | |
Let me further explain from my own person experience of what I mean. While I was opposed to George Wallace and what he stood for with regards to segregation in 1964 I went to hear for myself what he had to say at a political rally in my hometown when he was, like Ben Carson, running for president. What Wallace said at this rally convinced me I could never vote for him or anyone like him.
What did shock me was the lies reported in the local newspaper about this event where I had seen for myself what had been publically said and done. We should not tell lies to support an agenda we believe in because when exposed for what it is we lose our own credibility. Because of the lies reported in the newspaper I was almost persuaded to believe Wallace.
Fearless Phil |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 1855
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 11:21 am: | |
If anyone is interested all they have to do nowadays is "Google"
Ben Carson !
I have done this, and not only is there his 'personal' information
but his church affiliation and from there one can "Google" what the beliefs are of the church~
Unfortunately, too many people are "Sheeple" and don't take the time
to research their 'candidate' of choice!
Politics and Religion are places where so often emotion out weighs reason!
Thalarian, if in fact, these things were stated or implied by Ben Carson, that you wrote
in your above posts, whatever was said by him did make an impact on your friend,
and should be duly noted~ IMO ~ If, Ben Carson is as "Deeply Rooted" in Adventism,
as I believe he is, he holds these ideas, although perhaps not in this extreme~
~mj~ |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 15242
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 1:00 pm: | |
I agree, Phil and MJ. We need to do our own research; hearsay can't be trusted, even if we know the person we're quoting.
Context certainly is everything....as Adventists, "context" was one of the primary things we were missing. We knew more Scripture trivia than most Christians we encountered, but we had no context for those details. We totally had no idea what the Bible actually taught!
We have to be as careful with our details and our context no matter what we're discussing.
Colleen |
Capross
Registered user
Username: Capross
Post Number: 141
Registered: 7-2012
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 1:54 pm: | |
Phil
Agree on what you wrote. I agree we need to do our own research.
Not sure where I stand on Dr. Carson. Some things I see as favorable. Some things not so much. I believe no matter what human beings decide, God's will, will always be done.
Just saw this in the Christian post.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/6-interesting-facts-about-ben-carsons-christian-faith-138786/
Cap |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 1856
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2015 - 2:47 pm: | |
~Cap~
I just read this article ( post 141 )
I think the writer of the article, though well intentioned, did not
really understand where Ben Carson is coming from~
In the "6" Facts about Carson's "Faith"~
I was especially disturbed by "Fact" #2~~
Where Ben Carson is quoted as writing in his 2012 book, 'America the Beautiful' the following~
"As a Christian I am NOT the least bit offended by the beliefs of Hindus, Buddhist's, Muslims, Mormons, and so forth...."
I think "we" should be VERY concerned about his seemingly cavalier attitude
about the Muslim religion, Islam, to be exact,
since the adherents to this are in the millions
and their 'prophet' Mohammed, teaches
that ALL who are not of their belief are 'infidels' and should be killed!
Last time I checked this was Jews and Christians!
~mj~ |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 2209
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2015 - 8:19 am: | |
Last night I observed the first clear indication of how Dr. Carson's SDA beliefs would influence his actions and policies as President.
His answer about how he would have preferred responding to 9/11 is exactly what I would expect from a conscientious objector, we shouldn't have gone to war in Afghanistan, we should have embarked on a long-term plan to reduce our reliance on oil.
A CO might make a great Secretary of State or UN ambassador, committed to seeking peaceful resolutions whenever possible. But I question a CO being a Commander-in-Chief.
We have also seen his understanding of tithe impact his tax plans (although I'd be fine with a 10% flat tax).
Will we see cracks in his pro-life claims, based on the SDA pro-choice position?
Will we see mainstream Christianity continue to be one the losing ends of most religious liberty questions, while fringe groups and non-Christians aren't? The SDA church contributes heavily to ACLU causes and often stands on the questionable side of these concerns.
Will we see policies and actions that are more concerned with limiting any influence of "Sunday Keepers" while defending any other religion based on SDA eschatology? Will we have Obama 2.0 because his theology says that Sunday-Keeping Christians are a greater threat to his faith, family and friends than Muslims would be?
Will the SDA "ends justify the means" mindset impact his actions in a leadership role?
I appreciate the dignity that Dr. Carson maintains, even when those around him are not. It has a "presidential" quality that some of the others lack. I like that he tries to answer questions with information and intelligence rather than crafted sound bites. But I think that the influence of his church beliefs should be closely examined. Being an SDA does not automatically disqualify him in my book, but it does raise questions that I wouldn't have about others. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 8195
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2015 - 10:56 am: | |
I think Carson is VERY SDA, and that would affect decisions a president has to make. Another thing I would say is that the enemy doesn't always roar.
Him and my dog are much alike in that my dog is very quiet while he piddles on my rug.
River |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 1860
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2015 - 12:59 pm: | |
Ric-b and River~
I, too, watched the "debates' last night~ at times I thought my head was
going to explode, but I soldiered on!
I really do not see Ben Carson, as the next president of America~
IMO There are too many things about him that the citizens will become
aware of and say "NO" at the ballot box.
I remember what Bill Clinton "chanted" in his first presidential campaign~
"Its the economy, Stupid"~! Jobs, Jobs, Jobs~
He was elected twice!
God has His 'Plan' and it will come to fruition! we can count on that~
I make reference to King Saul, he was not God's choice, but the peoples.
In the end, God put on the throne 'David'~
My responsibility, as I see it, as a Christian citizen, is to pray, and participate in the process
of voting for president, the person God has put on my heart, after doing research on
all the candidates!
~mj~ |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 2212
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2015 - 7:48 am: | |
I'm afraid that this idea that Saul wasn't "God's choice" does not match Scripture.
quote:1 Sam 9:Now the day before Saul came, the Lord had revealed to Samuel: 16 “Tomorrow about this time I will send to you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince over my people Israel. He shall save my people from the hand of the Philistines. For I have seen my people, because their cry has come to me.” 17 When Samuel saw Saul, the Lord told him, “Here is the man of whom I spoke to you! He it is who shall restrain my people.”
1 Sam 10:1 Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on his head and kissed him and said, “Has not the Lord anointed you to be prince over his people Israel? And you shall reign over the people of the Lord and you will save them from the hand of their surrounding enemies. And this shall be the sign to you that the Lord has anointed you to be prince over his heritage.
1 Sam 10:17 Now Samuel called the people together to the Lord at Mizpah. 18 And he said to the people of Israel, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and I delivered you from the hand of the Egyptians and from the hand of all the kingdoms that were oppressing you.’ 19 But today you have rejected your God, who saves you from all your calamities and your distresses, and you have said to him, ‘Set a king over us.’ Now therefore present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes and by your thousands.”
20 Then Samuel brought all the tribes of Israel near, and the tribe of Benjamin was taken by lot. 21 He brought the tribe of Benjamin near by its clans, and the clan of the Matrites was taken by lot;5 and Saul the son of Kish was taken by lot. But when they sought him, he could not be found. 22 So they inquired again of the Lord, “Is there a man still to come?” and the Lord said, “Behold, he has hidden himself among the baggage.” 23 Then they ran and took him from there. And when he stood among the people, he was taller than any of the people from his shoulders upward. 24 And Samuel said to all the people, “Do you see him whom the Lord has chosen? There is none like him among all the people.” And all the people shouted, “Long live the king!”
Some suggest that the reason he was also called the people's king is because God gave the people the kind of king that they wanted, where David was the kind of king that God wanted.
I see this differently. God is their King, and the only King they ever needed. But the people demanded a human king. The people chose something earthly over the Heavenly. In this way, Saul was the peoples' king. If you look at the life of Saul when God chose him, Saul was an upright, God-following man. Not that God was ever taken by surprise, instead every action of God has a reason, even if we don't see it clearly. But Saul changed after he came to power. It is a classic example of how power corrupts the character.
God chose Saul, then God chose David to take Saul place. Perhaps Saul was chosen because he would make David's attributes even more clear by contrast. But I speculate with caution, because I do not want to add to the Word of God. |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 1863
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2015 - 11:13 am: | |
Ric_b~
GOD is SOVEREIGN~ !
What I wrote in my post #1860 did not come out right!
Thank-you for picking up on this and writing a correction~
~mj~ |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 15246
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2015 - 3:00 pm: | |
Actually, you make a great point, Rick, in your post about Saul. I've always "choked" on the interpretation that Saul was the people's choice. Yes, they wanted a king, as you said...but you described the situation well. God did select Saul. I like the observation that Saul is an example of how vulnerable people are to corruption by power.
Colleen |
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