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| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14947 Registered: 12-2003  |
Adventism’s 151 years of disappointment…and still counting Colleen Tinker In North America, October heralds the beginning of the holidays. October 13 marks Columbus Day in the United States—the day commemorating Christopher Columbus’ discovery of the New World—while in Canada, October 13 is Thanksgiving Day. October 31 flaunts costumes and candy as people celebrate Halloween on the evening that ushers in the almost-forgotten church holy day: Reformation Day. Adventists’ October Disappointment For Seventh-day Adventists, however, October is the month that spawned their movement. On October 22, 1844, hundreds of people in New England who had accepted William Miller’s predictions that Jesus would return that night lost their crops, their belongings, and their pride. Devastated that their hopes had been dashed by a normal fall night instead of the Lord descending in clouds with trumpets blasts, many of the disappointed returned to their churches and repented of their error of date-setting. A small group, however, refused to believe they could have been wrong. These few set about to discover where they went astray, and they eventually formulated an explanation: the date had been right, but the expected event had been wrong. Informed by a vision by Hiram Edson as he walked through a cornfield shortly after that fateful night, these persistent people developed an explanation: Jesus had entered the Most Holy Place in heaven on October 22, 1844, and had begun cleansing the heavenly sanctuary. It wasn’t the “sanctuary” of earth that was to be cleansed that night (see Daniel 8:14); these men decided it was the sanctuary in heaven that needed cleansing. With that explanation (which the late apologist Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute, called “a poor face-saving technique”) these fledgling Adventists planted a new movement. Their doctrine of the “investigative judgment”, which teaches that Jesus entered the Most Holy Place and began the judgment of those professing Christ, poring over their heavenly records to see if every sin had been confessed, became their explanation for the significance of William Miller’s failed prophecy. In other words, instead of admitting William Miller sinned in setting a date for Christ’s return (Mt. 24:36), the early Adventists compounded the error by fabricating a convoluted explanation that completely ignored the context of the biblical text (Daniel 8:14) and destroyed Jesus’ finished atonement at the cross. In fact, the crowning travesty of this investigative judgment is that Jesus eventually cleanses heaven of the sins of the saints (transferred there by the blood of Christ) by placing those sins on the head of Satan, the scapegoat, who carries them into the lake of fire where he will be punished for them. This doctrine was endorsed by a vision received by Ellen G. White, one of the co-founders of the movement who was recognized as having the “gift of prophecy”. Jesus Not Hastened Ellen G. White and her husband James, along with Joseph Bates, were three co-founders of the early Adventist movement. (JamesWhite and Joseph Bates, it should be noted, came from the Christian Connexion and never left their Arian beliefs that Jesus was not eternally God the Son of the same substance as the Father.) While it would be nineteen years before that “little flock” of Adventists would officially become the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Ellen White’s authority as the movement’s prophetic voice grew. During the formative years as the founders tried to establish their doctrines, they often became “stuck” as they tried to understand the Scriptures. Ellen, who admitted she didn’t know or understand the Bible, would at those crucial times be taken into vision, and she would be given revelations that explained the Scriptural passages and gave the doctrine-writers the understanding they needed. In fact, they stated that they knew Ellen’s visions were authentic encounters with God because they knew she didn’t understand Scripture on her own. Moreover, after the Great Disappointment of October 22, 1844, Ellen White continued to set new dates for Jesus’ expected return. After six or seven years, however, the continued failure of Jesus to return caused Ellen to come up with new messages. Her predictions gave way to remonstrations as she lay the blame for Jesus’ non-appearing on the guilt-ridden Adventist members. In her classic work The Desire of Ages, p 633-34, she wrote, “By giving the gospel to the world it is in our power to hasten our Lord’s return. We are not only to look for but to hasten the coming of the day of God…Had the church of Christ done her appointed work as the Lord ordained, the whole world would before this have been warned, and the Lord Jesus would have come to our earth in power and great glory.” In 1900 she pressured the guilty members with this message: “Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own” (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 69). The disappointed today It’s been 151 years since the day Jesus failed to return as prophesied, but the Seventh-day Adventist Church has continued to grow. Significantly, even though Ellen White’s visions and warnings guilted the members and endorsed unbiblical beliefs, her legacy continues to shape Seventh-day Adventists’ beliefs and practices. General Conference president Ted Wilson addressed the delegates at the organization’s Annual Council this fall on October 11 in his Sabbath sermon. His message was that Satan is attempting to attack and destroy God’s remnant church, reading Adventism into the prophetic messages of Revelation: “As Seventh-day Adventists at this 2014 Annual Council, we affirm without hesitation that God has given us a special mission for these closing hours of Earth’s history, and the devil is furious. “We see this vividly portrayed in the book of Revelation. Chapter 10 foretells the experience of our Adventist pioneers as they looked forward to Christ’s return. After the disappointment, an experience described as ‘bitter in the stomach,’ their attention was turned to Christ’s work in the heavenly sanctuary and the divine mandate to ‘prophecy again to many people, nations, tongues, and kings.’ “This prophetic movement, described in Revelation 12:17 as God’s remnant people who ‘keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus,’ is constituted in only one body of faith today: the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. Thus it is no surprise to see Satan warring against us with unbridled fury” (Transcript of Wilson’s sermon reprinted in Adventist Review, Oct. 21, 2014). In addition, Wilson articulated that the “Spirit of Prophecy”, or Ellen White’s prophetic messages and writings, are one of the marks that identify the Adventists as God’s one true church, His remnant: “It is in the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus—the Spirit of Prophecy—that we find our identity as God’s remnant church and our marching orders as God’s end-time messengers. The Seventh-day Adventist Church has been entrusted with the last proclamation of a saving message from God—a message for Mission to the Cities, a message of ‘comprehensive health ministry,’ a message to ‘reach the world,’ a message that embraces the wonderful programs of our departments, institutions, and entities, a message that encompasses all that we affirm in our 28 Fundamental Beliefs, and a message that Christ is soon to return in the clouds of glory! As our upcoming 2015 General Conference session theme tells us, ‘Arise. Shine. Jesus is coming!’” (Adventist Review, Oct. 21, 2014). Membership dilemma In spite of Adventism’s prophetic self-identity and its president’s exhortations to finish the work, General Conference executive secretary G. T. Ng reported some conflicting data concerning world membership as he addressed the Annual Council. The Adventist Review, October 21, 2014, reported: “Church membership has swelled by 1.5 percent to reach 18,143,745 million from 17,881,491 a year earlier, according to data that he presented. For the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people joined the church—1,091,222 to be exact—but at the same time a decade-high 828,968 people were removed from the books after dying, leaving the church, or disappearing. “Some of the losses reflect an ongoing drive by local churches to audit their books to remove the names of unreachable members who have not attended worship services for some time, said David Trim, the world church’s chief archivist who compiles the data. “Without the audit, church membership would stand at 25 million today, Ng said. “Offering another difficult statistic, Ng said 31.8 million people have been baptized over the past 40 years, while 11.4 million have dropped their membership or gone missing. The figure does not include those who died.” In short, Adventism is growing fast, but the attrition rate is higher than previously reported. In fact, Ng himself stated that in many locales the new converts were not properly nurtured, and they dropped away and returned to their original religions. Many former Adventists, however, state that when they actually read the New Testament in context, the truth of the gospel of the Lord Jesus became clear, and they saw Adventism as a false gospel which teaches that Jesus did not finish the atonement at the cross, that Jesus could have failed, and that man does not have a spirit that survives death and which is dead in sin until born again by the Spirit when one believes in Jesus. Furthermore, Adventism teaches that keeping the seventh-day Sabbath is what will distinguish the saved from the lost, and worshiping on Sunday is (or will be) the mark of the beast. Finally, Adventism teaches that Satan, not Jesus, is the scapegoat prefigured in Leviticus 16 who bears away the sins of the saved into the lake of fire and is punished for them. This belief makes Satan, not Jesus, the final sin-bearer. On this anniversary of the great disappointment, we know this: Adventism still sees itself as God’s remnant church of Bible prophecy commissioned with the last saving message for the world. The organization still sees prophetess Ellen White as its “continuing and authoritative source of truth” (Fundamental Belief #18), and Adventists understand the Bible through the lens of Ellen White’s hermeneutic. As Adventism struggles with its drain of members out the “back door” of the organization, President Wilson continues to lead his flock, faithful to the mandate laid down by the disappointed founders who refused to believe October 22 was not a biblical date. For further reading: http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/church-membership-reaches-18.1-million http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/‘god’s-prophetic-movement,-message,-and-mission-and-their-attempted-neutralization-by-the-devil’ http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2013/2/tinker.html http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2013/2/editorial.html http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2011/2/greatcontroversy.html http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2010/2/scapegoat.html http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2010/2/doesblooddefile.html http://www.ratzlaf.com/Books_c2.htm | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2014 |
Rather than admit that they were wrong, Ellen White and the Millerites directed their unbridled venom at the Protestant Churches that condemned their sinful time-setting. Protestant Churches became the "Harlot Daughters of the Whore of Babylon" because a). The Protestants correctly declared that time-setting was blatantly unbiblical and prohibited by the very words of Jesus; b). The Millerite predictions did not just fail once, but twice and spectacularly. So by correctly reading their Bibles and understanding its explicit command, and denouncing false time-setting, Protestantism has earned the perpetual hatred of Seventh Day Adventism. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3069 Registered: 5-2007  |
This is an excellent post. I just want to mention one 'small' detail: Oct. 22, 1844 to the same date in 2014 = 170 years. Of course the SDA denomination was formed on May 21, 1863 so counting from that date would be 151 years however their disappointment goes all the way back to 1843. Fearless Phil (Message edited by philharris on October 22, 2014) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14948 Registered: 12-2003 |
So embarrassing! I realized this morning what I had done. I just updated the years from last year's Proclamation article about "Still Waiting"...but that was in "honor" of the 150 anniversary of the formal organizing of the Adventist organization. Good grief...I have a loosely organized "space" in my head where numbers are concerned. The egregious date-setting-error didn't even cross my mind until a woke up today...  ! Colleen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 1041 Registered: 7-2008  |
The year was 1844 and something was astir Because the plucky Millerites thought big things would occur But when they woke the morning of October 23 They all were disappointed and the cause was clear to see The flock had played the numbers game and got the math all wrong And now two cent’ries later we remember with this song That if you need a certain way to flee the coming wrath Then get a guy who knows his stuff before you do the math Or better yet don’t set a date for when things should occur And don’t tell anyone your thoughts no matter if you’re sure Oh spare a thought for Miller while remembering his plight For it was he who led the flock that cold October night The legacy he left behind still haunts us to this day Though many wish the numbers thing would simply go away For now instead of saying that the earth was being cleansed We got the funny notion that the Judgment had commenced Initiated by the King’s decree, 457 starting Then add in seven decades to the true prophetic charting Subtract 490 from 2 thousand and 3 hundred Which takes you right up to the end of days divinely numbered Oh yes, of course, how silly that we never saw before… Investigative Judgment starts in 1844 For if you know prophetically a day is like a year The Sanctuary Doctrine, then, quite readily appears And with the Prophet’s blessing we are certain that it’s true Though other Bible scholars still don’t have the slightest clue Which means that it’s our duty to proclaim it to the rest To prove that we’re the Remnant whose theology is best. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2014 |
Great Poem Animal! My only suggestion is to add a couplet or two about the fact that Jesus celebrated Hanukkah, and Hanukkah is a holiday that celebrates the historical fulfillment of Daniel 8:14. That happened when Judas Maccabees drove out the Greeks who had defiled the Jewish Temple in PRECISELY 2300 days after the Greeks first seized and occupied the Temple. Additionally William Miller never bothered telling Adventists that all of the above information regarding Daniel 8:14 was explicitly presented in John Gill's Bible Commentary, which Miller had on his library shelf. So while Adventists were busy giving away their property and ruining their lives to prepare for the 1844 non-event, Miller stayed mum. As in, NOT: "Hey guys, just thought that you might want to know that respectable Bible Commentators UNANIMOUSLY declare that Daniel 8:14 was fulfilled 2,000 years ago. Just thought you might want to know before you give more of your horses away." Today, Miller would go to jail for pulling a stunt like that. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3070 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, How did you come by the information of that commentary being in William Miller's library? Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 328 Registered: 4-2014 |
I found a fascinating, gushing and detailed hagiography written on behalf of Miller at a used book store (50 cents!). Several people who knew him very well spokes of his fairly-massive library, and the commentaries and many other impressive books residing in it. John Gill's commentary and at least two others were in his library according to these witnesses, and were seen and USED by witnesses who were using his library. In the context, it is CLEAR that these witnesses were impressed by Miller's scholarly background and demeanor, and his library impressed them. Remember, the people interviewed in this book idolized him. They weren't trying to find the dirt on him. It truly is a hagiography. You can go onto the Bible Gateway website and do searches on Daniel 8:14 in many different commentaries. I found no less than six, widely-available commentaries that were published before 1840, and they were UNANIMOUS in positing that Daniel 8:14 was fulfilled during the reign of Antioch Epiphanes. I only did these searches in commentaries that would have been available to William Miller and Ellen White prior to 1844, but there were six of them that flatly refute Miller's prediction and supports the Antioch Epiphanes theory. In fact, I have been unable to find a single commentary that would have been available to William Miller and Ellen White that contradict those assertions. Gill's commentary was a mandatory REQUIRED resource for Baptist ministers after it was published in around 1790 (this is supported by some extraneous Baptist sources that I found, not from the biography.). Miller, of course, was an ordained Baptist minister. Gill's Commentary was used as the Baptist Minister "pulpit commentary" clear into the 1900's. Unfortunately, Miller eagerly discussed with a number of people his reasoning why he summarily jettisoned all of those commentaries and scholarly sources for his research. He was disgusted with the commentaries scholarly equivocation. One thing about Proof Texting: It gives you "certainty." I have never seen Miller's statement contradicted, and it is clear that is how he went about his exegesis of Daniel 8:14. Since obviously no other scholar that I can find agreed with him, and obviously the vast majority of Protestant Ministers lambasted Miller's primitive "proof text" methods of Bible reading. That is supported by Ellen's chapter about him in the Great Controversy. I anticipate the next question "So what is wrong with sticking to the Bible and Bible alone? We don't need no stinking commentaries!" I agree. Provided you keep your opinions to yourself and don't convince thousands of people to lose their homes, their livelihoods and their property. Once you start having that kind of effect, then you obviously have an ethical duty to report to your glassy-eyed adherents that the respectable Bible Commentaries are unanimously opposed to your hair-brained theories. You can have any opinion you want, as long as you don't convince people to take actions that harm themselves or others. That is extremely clear from the present state of American jurisprudence. I believe without question that Miller had Gill's commentary in his library (and at least two others); knew what the commentaries said about Daniel 8:14; and made a command decision to withhold this information from his Millerite followers. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2014 |
Philharris, One other bit of fascinating extrinsic evidence, I am pondering as I am writing my book debunking the Great Controversy. Personally, I am finding this extremely rewarding on many different levels. It is very clear that MANY "mainstream" Protestant preachers harshly-denounced Miller and his unbiblical time-setting. What words did they in fact use when denouncing Miller? Whatever they were, it certainly made Ellen and company madder than wet hens, and in my opinion was the real emotional basis for Ellen's depiction of Protestantism as "The Harlot Daughters......" and so on. Here's Ellen's own words: "Although opposed by professed Christians and the world, and buffeted by Satan and his angels, he ceased not to preach the everlasting gospel to crowds wherever he was invited, and sound the cry, Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come." http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/gc/gc23.htm And here is Ellen's praise of Miller for rejecting commentaries: "Endeavoring to lay aside all preconceived opinions, and dispensing with commentaries, he compared scripture with scripture by the aid of the marginal references and the concordance." http://www.greatcontroversy.org/books/gc/gc18.html So Ellen herself agrees with my theory that Miller must have had commentaries, must have read them, before "dispensing with them," would you not agree? How likely would it be that he "dispensed with them" without reading them first? So what DID those Protestant Ministers base their vehement denunciations of the Millerite movement on? Here's the Wikipedia entries on two of the foremost commentary writers, and in particular, notice the famed preachers that relied upon those commentaries (not the same preachers that denounced Millerism, but still interesting....) "Famous evangelical Protestant preachers such as George Whitefield and Charles Spurgeon used and heartily commended the work, with Whitefield reading it through four times - the last time on his knees.[9] Spurgeon stated, "Every minister ought to read it entirely and carefully through once at least." [10]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Henry And: "John Gill was the first major writing Baptist theologian, his work retaining influence into the 21st century." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gill_(theologian) Both the Gill and Henry commentaries were widely-available and I am positive the Gill commentary was in Miller's library. As Ellen said, "he dispensed with it." In summary, I think the following are some credible conclusions. As a Baptist Minister, there is no question that Miller would have resorted to Bible Commentaries (before "dispensing with them"), and before we went off on the 1844 tangent. The book I found demonstrates that he had at least two commentaries (including Gill's) in his library. As a minister, I have NO doubt that he was well aware of what those commentaries said about Daniel 8:14. I think there is NO chance that Miller did not look at those passages, especially in Gill's commentary. Gill was that famous and esteemed, particularly for a Baptist minister. There is also no doubt in my mind that he NEVER told his Millerite followers what was in those commentaries. I personally believe (without having really examined it yet) that many Millerites were educated in a similar manner as Ellen. Probably many of them were semi-illiterate or completely illiterate. I have no doubt that Miller had a superior basis of knowledge than most of his followers. I can find no evidence that indicates that Miller - with his superior base of knowledge and access to Gill's and other respectable Bible commentators - ever disclosed to his followers the existence of these "dissenting opinions." Similarly, I can found no evidence that while mainstream Protestant preachers were vehemently denouncing Miller - and likely doing so based on the revered commentaries I cited above - that Miller ever conceded to his semi-illiterate and illiterate following that those Protestant ministers just may have had a point. And that the "point" they had was probably developed partially from those esteemed commentaries cited above. Somehow, someway, Miller made some egregiously false predictions that caused immense havoc and destruction in his follower's lives. I guess my task is to figure out why and how this happened. What do you think of my theory? | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 330 Registered: 4-2014 |
Lastly, a direct quote from Miller used by James White clinches my argument: "I could only regard the time as symbolical, and as standing each day for a year, in accordance with the opinions of all the standard Protestant commentators." http://www.earlysda.com/miller/william-miller-biography-2.html You are forced into a couple of conclusions with that statement: a). Miller simply lied that he had read the "standard protestant commentators." I can find NO commentary that would have been available to him that supports that statement. He said ALL of them do. I can find NONE of them that do. Or/and: b). Miller read the "commentators" but lied about what the commentators said about Daniel 8:14. NONE of them support the "day for year" principal in interpreting Daniel 8:14. I've read them. I can't find ONE that supports that assertion. And/Or finally: c). Miller read the "commentators" and knew they did not support the "day for year" principal, and yet elected not to tell his Millerite followers what the "commentators" actually said about his pet day-for-year interpretation of Daniel 8:14, and affirmatively lied about what the "commentators" said when he uttered the above-quoted statement. So take your pick, or convince me that you have an alternative explanation. You may pick more than one. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 331 Registered: 4-2014 |
Another revealing Miller quote: "I was particularly anxious to have them harmonized by the preachers of the word; and accordingly embraced every opportunity, to present for their removal, the difficulties under which I labored. But I obtained from them no satisfaction; they usually adduced the opinions of various commentators, which were as contradictory as were their own....." William Miller's Apology and Defence, August 1 (full PDF copy available here: http://ellenwhiteaudio.org/pioneers/ebooks-of-the-pioneers/#miller Here is a selection of those supposedly "contradictory commentators" that Miller could or would have had access to, and denounced as "contradictory:" http://biblehub.com/commentaries/daniel/8-14.htm Can you find a single commentary at that link that supports Miller's statement that "they usually adduced the opinions of various commentators, which were as contradictory as were their own?" Especially as applied to Daniel 8:14? In my opinion, the commentators express a UNANIMOUS opinion that it was fulfilled under the reign of Antioch Epiphanes, and demonstrate an unusual AGREEMENT as to the text's fulfillment! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3071 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, In Dale Ratzlaff's book (Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventism, Chapter Four, William Miller: His Methods and Message) Dale totally and objectively debunks the logic of William Miller. Once something that has been objectively shown to be false and non-biblical I prefer to focus my main attention on understanding the teachings found in Scripture and to heed the warning found in Gal. 1:9. Subjectively attempting to get into the mind and thinking of this man and what he did 170 years ago seems pointless to me since his time-setting theology has already been well debunked. In practice, I have found through contact with SDA family and friends who are simply 'blind' to biblical truth, that unless they are led of the Holy Spirit they will never be willing to receive truth. While I am known for speaking out with what I understand God's truth to be I'm well aware that my only active recourse is ultimately to pray and leave their blind hearts to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 332 Registered: 4-2014 |
Here's Barnes Notes on Daniel 8:14: "And there can be as little doubt of the application of the remainder to Antiochus Epiptianes, and in this, nearly all expositors are agreed. Indeed, so striking and clear is the application to this series of historical events, that Porphyry maintained that this, as well as other portions of Daniel, were written after the events occurred. One of two things, indeed, is certain - either that this was written after the events here referred to occurred, or that Daniel was inspired. No man by any natural sagacity could have predicted these events with so much accuracy and particularity." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/daniel/8.htm Here's the Benson Commentary: "After this time of two thousand three hundred days, or about six years from the first coming of Antiochus, it is here declared that the temple should be purged, or cleansed from the polluted or unclean things which Antiochus had brought into it, or from those things in it which he had defiled, by using them for idolatrous rites: see 1 Maccabees 4." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/daniel/8.htm Here's John Calvin: "And the chief object of this vision is to prepare the faithful to bear patiently the horrible tyranny of Antiochus, of which the Prophet treats in this chapter." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/calvin/daniel/8.htm Here's Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges: "The little horn, which arose out of one of these, represented a king who, though not named, is shewn, by the description of his doings (Daniel 8:23-25), to be Antiochus Epiphanes." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/daniel/8.htm Ellicot's Commentary for English Readers: "It is clear from the language that the period here spoken of terminates with the cleansing of the sanctuary, and that it begins with the transgression that led to the awful events that occurred in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes. Judas Maccabeus took Jerusalem in the year B.C. 165, and kept the Feast of Dedication the same year, Antiochus being at the time in Armenia. The period apparently commences with the events mentioned in 2 Maccabees 4:32-39, which occurred about B.C. 171." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/daniel/8.htm Expositor's Bible Commentary: "His (Antioch Epiphanes) chief enormity was the abolition of "the daily" (tamid) - i.e., the sacrifice daily offered in the Temple; and the desecration of the sanctuary itself by violence and sacrilege, which will be more fully set forth in the next chapters. He also seized and destroyed the sacred books of the Jews. As he forbade the reading of the Law-of which the daily lesson was called the Parashah -there began from this time the custom of selecting a lesson from the Prophets, which was called the Haphtarah." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/expositors/daniel/8.htm Gaebelein's Annotated Bible History does not leave us in doubt of how and when this great prophetic vision was fulfilled. This little horn is the eighth king of the Seleucid dynasty. He is known by the name of Antiochus Epiphanes; after his wild and wicked deeds he was called Epiphanes, the madman. Long before he invaded the pleasant land (Israel’s land), Daniel saw what he would do. He conquered Jerusalem. He took away the daily sacrifice in the temple and offered a swine and swine’s blood upon the altar. He introduced idol worship, devastated the whole land and killed some 100,000 Jews. "In Daniel 8:13-14 is an angelic conversation. The 2,300 days (literal days) cover just about the period of time during which Antiochus did his wicked deeds. When they were ended Judas Maccabaeus cleansed the sanctuary about December 25, 165 B.C." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/daniel/8.htm Geneva Study Bible: (a) That is, until so many natural days have passed, which make six years, and three and a half months: for the temple was profaned this long under Antiochus. http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gsb/daniel/8.htm Pulpit Commentary: "The period referred to is that between the desolation inflicted on the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes and its cleansing by Judas Maccabaeus." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/daniel/8.htm Any of these Commentators fit Miller's description of ".....the opinions of various commentators, which were as contradictory as were their own....?" I am weary now. Need I go on? | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 333 Registered: 4-2014 |
Phil, I hear you. I hear you. The problem is, in the Great Controversy, Miller is described as a heroic and dead-honest modern day Protestant Reformer. I think I have proven that his statements about the content and consistency of the commentaries available to him are absolutely false. Secondly, he clearly never told his followship about what he clearly knew about the content and conclusions of those commentaries. I must conclude that Miller just was not an honest man. He made statements about Bible Commentaries that are demonstrably false. Not only were his prophecies demonstrably false, and contrary to the clear instructions of Jesus to avoid Time Setting; but Jesus himself refuted Miller when Jesus celebrated Hanukkah- without a whisp of dissent in the Bible - and which celebration commemorated the cleansing of the Temple after Antioch Epiphanes was ejected from it. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3072 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, On the topic of ‘The Great Controversy’ I am wondering how soon your research will be available. That will be the subject for the Quarterly lessons for the first quarter of 2016 and could be of use at that time. Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 334 Registered: 4-2014 |
Phil, I must be very careful about what I am about to tell you, but since September 1, I have had two surgeries (one major, one minor - one a major hernia, the other bone spur removal in my foot) and am scheduled for an MRI next week for almost certainly another major one (rotator cuff repair). These all arose after I began my research and writing project back in May,June and my body swiftly went downhill very fast. So physically this has been extraordinarily tough times. OTH, more than ever I know this project is worthwhile, having experienced very profoundly the most simplest version of the Gospel and a earth-shattering and profound personal awareness of the Resurrection as the central turning point of human history. Having experienced the simplicity, power and beauty of the simple Gospel and the enervation of the Resurrection, wading back into convoluted thicket of Adventism has been both bad and good. Good, because it has made me appreciate more than ever what I have learned about the Gospel and Resurrection as compared to the convoluted dishonesty of Adventism. It's just like what you said in your earlier post: What could be more straightfoward and simple in the Bible than the Gospel and the Resurrection? Bad......my body is suddenly and dramatically falling to pieces. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3073 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, I will be praying for you. I understand that while much of our physical health is related to our own actions it is also clear to me that external attacks are also normal when our real enemy wants to divert us from what we are doing. PS If you wish to contact me directly via email my email address is listed on my profile which you can access from one of my 'members only' section of the forum. Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 335 Registered: 4-2014 |
Dear Phil, I understand and respect the theory of "external attacks," which is why I have been so loathe to mention my physical state publicly, although I am extremely skeptical that it applies in my particular situation. All three injuries are the result of my own carelessness. I have nobody to blame but myself. I should have known better than to try things physically that I am just way too old for. So I am reluctant to affix blame on external causes. It has been tempting though....but then I remind myself of my own repeated acts of foolishness. The Rotator Cuff is strongly exacerbated by typing. Everything I have written in the last day or so has been with one hand. And the pain is SEVERE at night, waking me up almost every night. The good news is, I am healing very fast from the prior two surgeries, spending just one day on pain meds after the hernia surgery, and one day after the foot surgery. My first doctor wrote both an oxycontin prescription and another for hydrocodone with three refills on each. I haven't had any of them refilled and probably have enough left for the rotator cuff surgery as well. So I feel very blessed actually for that alone. Moreover, I feel like for the first time in my life that I am healing mentally, emotionally and spiritually from Adventism. That strange feeling of giddy hope appears from nowhere and catches me off guard pretty often. I don't even have to make any effort for that hope to stay at the forefront of my thinking and emotions, which is truly a bizarre realization. So its all good. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3074 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, At my age (73) I have had numerous physical problems including four major surgeries, none of which can be laid to external causes except for the time a guy didn't like my looks and rearranged my nose. However, there are incidents that just don't seem to have any other kind of explanation. Therefore I'm simply including 'external attacks' as another possibly to not neglect considering and spend time in prayer petitioning for God’s wisdom in the matter. Even so, it becomes apparent that it is usually a matter of having allowed myself to become vulnerable to such attacks. PS There is nothing quite like having five miles of gauze pulled out of your nose following surgery knowing for sure the doctor is pulling your brains out with the gauze. Fearless Phil | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1597 Registered: 2-2011  |
Resjudicata~ I follow closely what you write~ I relate to your last paragraph above #335~ It reminded me of verses in the book of Joel~ "And I will "Restore" or replace for you the years that the 'locust' has eaten-the hopping 'locust', the stripping 'locust', and the crawling 'locust', My great army which I sent among you. And you shall eat in plenty and be satisfied and praise the name of the Lord, your God, Who has dwelt wondrously with you. And My people shall never be put to shame." Joel 2: 25,26. ~Amplified Bible~ GOD is Faithful~ HE knows who are HIS~ I am praying for you~ ~mj~ |
