| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3332 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'm writing this mainly for any Adventists reading this. First I'd like to point out what God told Noah after the flood: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." Genesis 9:3 But an Adventist would likely ask me: "but then why did God have Noah take 7 of each clean animal and 2 of each unclean animal into the ark?" To that, I'd like to say: "then after the flood when Noah 'took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar,' [Genesis 8:20]; he would have wiped out ALL of the clean animals! There wouldn't have been a male and female left of each to reproduce! ONLY the clean animals were offered as sacrifices." Next, why did Israel ever have to avoid eating unclean meats anyway? It's because "unclean" animals and birds represented "unclean" people. Take a look at Leviticus 20... " And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them. 24 But I have said to you, ‘You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.’ I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean, and the unclean bird from the clean. You shall not make yourselves detestable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground crawls, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. 26 You shall be holy to me, for I the Lord am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine." Leviticus 20:23-26 What about now? If Gentiles are still "unclean" then Jewish people should avoid eating "unclean" meats. So is there still a wall up between Jew and Gentile? Do Gentiles have to become Jewish in order to be God's people? Peter had a vision addressing that very thing: In his vision he saw: "...something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” 16 This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven." Acts 10:11-16 But what did it mean? After the vision, Peter did the unthinkable! He went into a Gentile's house! He told them: "God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean." Acts 10:28 Now there's neither Jew nor Greek! "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28 The law to Isreal not to eat "unclean" meats is not repeated in the New Covenant [New Testament]. In fact, there are no longer "unclean" meats! "I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean." Romans 14:14 | ||
| Carracio Registered user Username: Carracio Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2014 |
I think a problem with Adventism is that they have some ideas that are ok. It is ok to celebrate the Sabbath, it is ok not to eat unclean meat. But why do they say you HAVE TO celebrate the Sabbath (else you loose your salvation) and that eating only clean meat is better. It is very black and white.. (hope you understand what Im saying, my English isn't very good) | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2014  |
Paul said that his teaching on this subject (that nothing is unclean of itself) was received from the Lord Jesus: Romans 14:14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. This is an obvious reference to Jesus in Mark, which was probably the earliest gospel, and Paul would have been familiar with it: Mark 7:18-19 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” ( Thus he declared all foods clean.) So the teaching of cessation of the clean and unclean laws originates with Jesus and not Paul. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 313 Registered: 7-2005 |
Welcome to FAF, Carracio! The reason the Sabbath is so important and a MUST, is that the final test for the world is Sabbath vs. Sunday. The day of worship is the final test. Sunday "keepers" will receive the Mark of the Beast if they don't change to keeping the Sabbath. They also follow the old testament food laws...even though they really promote vegetarianism. Almost everything with Adventism is black & white. Perhaps your parents should investigate more about Ellen White on the internet, before they get too far into Adventism. She is truly a false prophet!!! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1403 Registered: 2-2011  |
Carracio~ An excellent site to find answers regarding your questions about ellen g. white, Everything 'adventst' is, www.truthorfables.com/ I highly recommend you make a 'visit' to this site! ~mj~ | ||
| Carracio Registered user Username: Carracio Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2014 |
Thanks, I already read about EGW. When we were on vacation, we got the book The Great Controversy, we started reading it and found t a very god book. But I wanted to hear the other side of the story, so I started searching on the internet. I also found www.truthorfables.com, our eyes were opened. Unfortunately my parents-in-law are already member of the church and getting further in it.. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 314 Registered: 7-2005 |
Carracio, Are they even willing to investigate Ellen White? As far as the Sabbath, there are lots of texts in the Old Testament that declares that the Sabbath is the sign of the covenant made with Israel. It was only given to Israel as a sign between them and God. I don't have the texts with me, but some are in Exodus, Ezekiel (I think). Anyway just google Sabbath-sign of covenant with Israel, or something along those lines. | ||
| Carracio Registered user Username: Carracio Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2014 |
@Foofighter, No, they think we are to negative about EGW and we don't see the positive things. They say that they study the Bible on everything that EGW says.. | ||
| Goldcityboy7 Registered user Username: Goldcityboy7 Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2015 |
I am in the process of leaving the sda church. I disagree with all of their doctrines. However, I probably won't eat any pork or shellfish. Not because I think it's wrong but simply because I think it's a little gross. Chicken on the other hand, I can't get enough. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15044 Registered: 12-2003  |
Did you eat pork and shellfish before becoming an Adventist? | ||
| Goldcityboy7 Registered user Username: Goldcityboy7 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2015 |
Colleen, Yes I did. It just goes to show how much effect the church has on the mind. I used to be known for my love of shrimp. Haha. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15046 Registered: 12-2003 |
Goldcityboy, that aversion has a spiritual component. Richard had to pray and commit his aversion to meat to the Lord Jesus and eat it anyway. The teaching that food God created to be enjoyed is not fit for food is a doctrine of demons (read 1 Tim. 4:1-16). God gave mankind "everything that moves" for food after the flood (Genesis 9:1-3), and Peter's vision of the sheet was NOT just about people. It was absolutely about food. As long as Jews couldn't eat "unclean meats", they couldn't fraternize with gentiles. Peter had to be willing and able to eat Cornelius's "ham sandwiches" when he went and stayed in his home immediately after receiving that vision. No Jew would have been willing to do that—unless God intervened and not only lifted the ban but declared that His people were not to be disunited from anyone on the basis of food. Jesus tore down the dividing wall on the cross (Eph. 2:14). Food really does divide people. It excludes some and causes others to have to think twice about what they serve. Those food laws were for the purpose of keeping God's "holy seed" separate from the world until the Messiah would come. Once Jesus came, all those laws of separation were null and void. Adventists claim these things are health issues, but they are not. That is a carefully fabricated sales pitch for their food laws. It is absolutely a spiritual issue to Adventists. They insist it is not, but the Bible clearly allows us to eat anything. Jesus even declared "all foods clean" in Mark 7:19. Now, it is not a sin for you not to eat pork and shellfish, but I just want to throw it out there that this, too, was a compelling deception, and aversions have deep holds on our minds and emotions. They are like the flip-side of addictions. Aversions hold us in bondage, but Jesus is greater than any bonds that have been placed on us! Colleen | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1660 Registered: 2-2011 |
Colleen~ I agree with you~ The adventist teaching regarding the eating of pork products and other meats, also shellfish that would be considered "unclean" according to the dietary 'laws' given to the Isrealites (Jews) does have a "...spiritual component..." Just like Ellen White's other 'messages' this food 'doctrine' also comes from the same source~ Lucifer, the 'Father of Lies'~ Everything that comes out of his 'mouth' is a Lie, and always has been! We do not have to enjoy all foods~just try them! Break the 'aversion' to them so that bondage is broken! Colleen, thank-you for your explanation in your post above! My Father did not 'convert' to adventism until I was two years old, mainly to please my Mother (third generation sda) He had been raised a Methodist~ In his childhood home there were no restrictions on foods! least of all meats! My Father and Mother compromised on the food 'issue'! Four days a week, meat, poultry, seafood products, the other three days, vegetarian! The 'veggie' days were the days my 'traveling salesman' Father was usually out of town! All this being said~ I can still create a 'mean' 'veggie-burger' and 'Special K. Cottage Cheese' loaf!!! ~mj~ |
