| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2105 Registered: 7-2004  |
I'm going to post this on the Proclamation Blog, but I will share it with my friends here first as a preview. Why I DON’T Go to Church on Saturday Over the past couple of months, multiple friends and family on Facebook have posted an article on why they go to church on Saturday. The article is introduced as piece intended to create greater tolerance and understanding when in fact it is nothing more than an apologetic for the requirement of 7th day Sabbath observance. There is a Biblical rationale for promoting tolerance towards those with different worship styles and even different worship days. Everyone does not understand their dietary and worship freedoms in the same way, and Paul admonishes us to be tolerant of those differences. Rom 14:1-9 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. I do not begrudge my SDA friends and family the ability to gather for worship on the Sabbath day. I do take issue; however, with SDA doctrinal teachings (like those in the link being so widely promoted) that Sabbath worship is a requirement for believers. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to explain why I don’t worship on the Sabbath. I’d like to being by acknowledging one of the points that SDAs are correct in pointing out; the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is the 7th day Sabbath. There is no Scriptural basis indicating that the day of Sabbath observance was changed from the 7th day to the 1st of the week. So if I have acknowledged this central point of the Adventist argument, why don’t I observe the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments. This requires examining the nature of the Law in the Old Testament. The distinction between the 10 commandments spoken to the people and written directly by God, and the remaining commandments given through Moses is given greater emphasis by SDAs than is found in Scripture. When we look to the Scriptural account, we learn that the reason some commandments were given directly to the people and other were given through Moses is that the people didn’t want to hear anymore from God. Ex 20:18-21 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was. The primary purpose of the Law (Ten Commandments and Mosaic Law) was to lead the people to the Promised Messiah. Gal 3:23-24 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Ultimately, all of the OT was about leading people to the Messiah. John 5: 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me and 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. The Law directed the people to Christ in two distinct ways: 1) The law pointed out our hopeless sinfulness, and our need for God’s mercy found in the Messiah. Rom 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 2) The law foretold the role and nature of the Messiah. Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. The book of Hebrews tells us a great deal about how OT laws foretold Christ and were fulfilled by Christ. Christ fulfilled the High Priesthood (Chapters 5-7). Christ fulfilled the need to offer sacrifices (7:25-28), He fulfilled the entire temple ministry (8:1-7). All of these laws foretold Christ and were fulfilled in Christ. The requirement to keep these laws ended, there was no “spirit” or “principle” of the Law that continued. These laws had served their purpose. Interestingly, Hebrews also discusses the Sabbath. Hebrews 4:9-11 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. If we were to read only those verses in Hebrews 4, the Sabbath command would appear to be something that is affirmed as continuing from the Old Testament Law, rather than being something fulfilled in Christ. This illustrates the problem of reading an isolated snippet without the surrounding passages. Let’s back up just a few verses and see what is really being said about the Sabbath rest. Heb 4:6-8 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted “Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. The Jews, despite rigorously observing the 7th day Sabbath, did not enter God’s rest. The rest being discussed here is not merely refraining from working for a specific 24 hour period. At one point, God appointed a specific day, the 7th, as a day of rest. We see in this passage that “again he appoints a certain day”. We have a new establishment of Sabbath taking place, and what day does this verse say it is? Is it the 7th day? Has it been changed to the 1st day? Neither; the day that has been appointed is “Today”. We can enter the true Sabbath rest of God any day. And that rest isn’t a 24 hour rest, it is the ongoing ceasing of our works just like God ceased his work of creation (see Heb 4:3-4) on the 7th day. God didn’t start working at finishing creation after sunset the 7th day; His rest was ongoing. That “rest” is what man was created for before sin entered the world, and that “rest” is what is restored to us through the reconciliation found in Christ. The Sabbath command was a shadow of Christ and the reconciliation that occurs through Christ. This is affirmed in Col 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. The yearly, monthly, and weekly Sabbath foretold Christ, they were a shadow of the real meaning, just as sacrifices, priests, and the temple services were a shadow of the real meaning. Now that the Light of the World has arrived, we no longer live in these shadows. Every time in the New Testament that the Apostles are described as meeting with someone on the Sabbath, it is attended a group of non-believers in order to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no mention of New Testament Believers worshipping together on the Sabbath. Instead, Believers are described as meeting daily (Acts 2:42-47) or specifically gathering together on the first day (Acts 20:7). The Old Testament command to rest on the 7th day has not been changed to a principle of resting 1 day in 7. It has not been transferred to resting on the 1st day of the week. Nor has the command continued unchanged. The Sabbath command was a shadow that pointed to Christ which has been fulfilled in Him. The Sabbath rest that remains is a superior rest in every way, it is not a rest that we partake in once per week, it is a rest that we enter into once and remain eternally. | ||
| Asetechrail Registered user Username: Asetechrail Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2010  |
As always, that was stated very well Rick. The very heart of what you have written here is why I worship "Today". Every day is my worship day, not just one day in seven. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14780 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thank you, Rick. This is good. Colleen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 1033 Registered: 7-2008  |
By placing such an exalted value to the Sabbath as essential for all believers...which Adventism does openly.... Then Calvary isn't enough to provide salvation to the sinner. I refuse to accept such a conclusion. God knows how to save the sinning heart. Scripture states that God IS salvation..not the Sabbath. It really is that simple. >>>Animal | ||
| Carracio Registered user Username: Carracio Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2014 |
Thanks for writing this. Sometimes my wife and I feel unsecure, shouldn't we keep the Sabbath? Altough I have never been SDA, my parents-in-law are and are trying to convince us, it fills us with fear sometimes. Are they right? At that point we start reading Galatians, Romans or Hebrews. that really helps us. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3024 Registered: 5-2007  |
Carracio, Adventism is founded upon fear. Keep reading your Scripture and understand where fear comes from. Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2014 |
It is just unimaginable that the witnesses to the Resurrection would ever THINK about the Sabbath again. After my recent experience with it, just about all of my prior interests - which really were innocent - have amazingly fallen by the wayside. I had a season's pass at the local ski resort with brand new skis, boots and bindings and didn't go skiing one time. I read Canright just before the season started and immediately lost all interest in skiing. I have four hot rods that I was always eager to get out of the garage on the first warm spring day, and they are still sitting in the garage where they were put last fall. I have snowmobiles I didn't ride one single time this winter. I can't think about anything for very long without the Resurrection intruding back in. I never in my wildest dreams ever imagined that I would quote anything a Baptist said, but here goes: "Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing: "He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!" If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior." http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Articles/Miscelanous/WhyIAmABaptist.htm And here's St. Ignateus of Antioch, on his way to being fed to the lion's at the Roman Coliseum. I have been mocking SDAs on Christainforums.com by arguing that Ignateus paid no attention to the Ten Commandments. He was more concerned about his lion tooth-nicked bloody bones getting back to the church as a Holy Relic: "Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace." ..... "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master..." http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-magnesians-roberts.html I believe that Sabbath Keeping was abandoned the weekend following the Resurrection. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1430 Registered: 2-2011  |
Resjudicata~ I am glad you have had the opportunity to read 'Canwright'! I felt the same as you have described when I began to read his book~ However, when I read it, it was not bound in book form; it was in 'xeroxed' copy form that a friend ( in the process of coming 'out' of adventism!) had stapled together, and she was so excited to have found 'Canwright' she made lots of copies and gave them to anyone that was interested! His testimony really made a huge difference in my life! ~mj~ | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2014 |
Well with the miracle of the internet, his magna opus is available to anyone, free and painless on at least four different websites and probably more than that: http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/SDAism-RENOUNCED-by-D-M-Canright.html http://www.bible.ca/7-Seventh-day-Adventism-RENOUNCED-by-D-M-Canright.htm http://www.nonsda.org/egw/canright/sdar.htm http://outofadventism.com/seventh-day-adventism-renounced-by-d-m-canright/ I feel that Canright, some 100 years after his death, brought the dazzling, effervescent Resurrection forcibly into my life, sitting at home alone in my house that bleak winter day. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3350 Registered: 7-2007 |
I don't get how Adventists manage to ignore verses such as Hebrews 8:13 which says the Old Covenant is obsolete, and Hebrews 9:15-17 that says Jesus brought in a New Covenant at His death, and Deuteronomy 4:13 which says just what the Old Covenant was, and Deuteronomy 5:1-3 which explains just who it was given to. I don't understand how they miss Romans 14:5 where it says it doesn't matter if a person keeps a day or not, nor how Colossians 2:16-17 explains that all the various types of Sabbaths were all a shadow of Christ! [Verse 18 seems to fit Ellen White with her visions!] I don't understand how they miss that 2nd Corinthians 3:7 calls the Old Covenant "the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone," nor how they miss that Galatians 4:21-24 metaphorically compares the people who put themselves under the Old Covenant to slaves. But then again, maybe I do understand - sort of. Because I myself would ignore any verse that contradicted Ellen White when I was an Adventist, telling myself that I simply didn't understand it. I used her as a filter to "understand" everything in the Bible! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2114 Registered: 7-2004 |
It isn't just ignoring verses, it is a much deeper spiritual reality. 2 Cor 3: 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. So long as you worship Moses and The Law you will be blinded to the truth. This is preach Moses to believers is so bad that Paul has these things to say about it in Gal 5: "4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace." "12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!" The Ellen White glasses are not just a filter that causes a person to see things differently they are a veil and a delusion. 2 Thess 2:11 "Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false," This is Spiritual Warfare, and the only means by which a person is freed from this trap is through the power of the Spirit. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2014 |
I for one have recently came to agree with what Ric says, in spite of having resisted reaching that conclusion with everything I have. I have read the writings of every First and Second Christian writer that I can find. And they are unanimous. And Ignatius of Antioch was a disciple of both the Apostle John and Peter. He was murdered by lions in 107 AD! Just try and convince me that those quotes of his above were not the result of what John and Peter told him to do! A guy that would gleefully toss his life away with the lions rather than denounce his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is NOT going to permit apostasy to occur in Antioch while he was the Bishop. No way. I am 100 percent sure that Sabbath Keeping was completely jettisoned the weekend after the Resurrection. That is simply the only logical conclusion that you can reach. The way those Apostles behaved after the Resurrection versus the way they behaved before the Resurrection has me convinced. ALL of the First and Second Century Christian writers I have read denounce Sabbath Keeping as either the Judaizing or the Ebionite heresies. They don't just denounce it as a heresy, either. They argue that Sabbath Keeping proves that you have not received or understood Grace and the Resurrection. They didn't come to that conclusion all by themselves. Based on the Pauline Epistles and the Council of Jerusalem Decision in AD 50, it is clear that Sabbath Keeping was jettisoned immediately after the Resurrection. Have you ever noticed that there is NO record of most of the Apostles ever setting foot again in a synagogue? And NO record of most of them doing anything that might remotely resemble Sabbath Keeping? NONE of them ever said anything like that Christians should keep the Sabbath. Occam's Razor here: The simplest explanation is the best. Even Samuele Bacchiochi places universal Sabbath abandonment no later than 135 AD. The simplest explanation is that Sabbath Keeping was abandoned immediately after the Resurrection and the Pauline Epistles simply reflect a done deal. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3353 Registered: 7-2007 |
Also the New Testament [New Covenant] makes very clear that the Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus! The apostle Paul went into the synagogues simply to preach to the people gathered there. Back when I was an Adventist, I couldn't read much of the Bible without my mind wandering onto a "million" other topics. Now the Bible is so much more interesting and ALIVE! I can actually read it now!  | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2014 |
You and me both! I actually HATED the Bible with a passion when I was an Adventist. It was mind-numbing glop that felt like Chinese water torture. It made me sick to my stomach to go to Bible Class at Academy. My extreme adverse reaction to the Bible may have helped me to get out sooner, so I am not complaining.I got out as quick as I could safely and resolved that I would never read the Bible again, a promise I faithfully kept for 30 some years. I still can't bring myself to pick up a leather bound Bible with thin paper pages and red or blue lettering. I break out in hives. I have conceded to my innermost self that is just a "no-go." It ain't happening. If I have to read out of a leather-bound Bible, then just sign me up for hell right now and let's get 'er done. So it has been wonderful to be able to read the Bible in the NIV on the internet. I have never read as much Bible in my entire life as I have in the past three months or so. The Bible on the internet is just sheer pleasure. Unbelievable. Never thought that would happen. Never. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1435 Registered: 2-2011 |
Praise God for technology! At the church I go to I see quite a few people using 'IPads' for Bible study, rather than bringing the 'leather-bound', thin paper, red-letter books! I imagine you have thought of doing this! You most probably will not break out in hives, and you can follow along with the study and make notes~ ~mj~ | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2014 |
Well, there's that. Group Bible study....I am still a ways away from being able to do that too. That brings up all kinds of scary implications too.....the feelings I used to get in Academy Bible Class where the world started closing in and I would writhe in agonized torture. I am taking it day by day and I have read every single Proclamation back issue on the internet. I have read a couple of excellent Bible Commentaries cover to cover (Like I just sat down and read them like normal Books without constantly wondering when I would break out in a cold sweat! That is just so INCREDIBLE!)I have now read the whole New Testament twice in two different versions on the internet. The Old Testament is still pretty much another "No Go" Zone right now. Although I have found that sticking with the Jewish commentaries on the Old Testament for some reason are extremely comforting. Go figure! The Old Testament was written for them! Maybe their thinking about it for what, 4,000 years now? Maybe they have some things we should listen to. They just explain it in a matter of fact way by reasoning by analogy that I am used to from practicing law, without all of the insane prophetic drama of scary prophetic 9-headed, 10-story tall peyote demons with 7 ex-Popes being flicked in and out of the mouth like little tongues. And I found out that Gentiles had NEVER been permitted to keep the Sabbath or the Jewish food laws, with the Death Penalty as a possibility as punishment. That is an iron law of Judaism. And the Jews had 613 Commandments, not Ten, ALL of which were equal and all equally important. They would never allow just one thing (like the Sabbath) to be ripped lose and blown out of all proportion like EGW did. Very comforting when I realized how full of it Adventist were on the Old Testament law. It is clear that Judaism views Christians reading their Torah as crazy people. Why can't you just read your OWN Testament they ask? I am staying completely away from Daniel and Revelation for the time being. A man has to know his limits. I peed my pants several times at Revelation "Prophecy Crusades" as a little boy, I was so scared of the nightmarish drooling monsters wading out of the ocean, slithering toward my house bent on snacking on my cute little Chihuahua. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1437 Registered: 2-2011 |
Resjudicata~ I meant take an IPAD to a regular Sunday morning church service~ not a small Bible study group, where perhaps you might feel "put on the spot". Only you know when you are ready for the next 'step'. In the process of my own 'coming out', many times I would just take a 'time-out' and Rest in the assurance of my salvation, and the Love of JESUS for me! Just kinda let things 'settle'~ ~mj~ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14804 Registered: 12-2003 |
I completely understand the hurdles of getting past the forms of worship and study that Adventism completely distorted. It is pretty horrifying to realize how much Adventism attempted to mimic the forms of New Testament Christianity, like "fellowship" and "shared meals" and "Bible study"...and succeeded in imprinting us with Adventism's crazy-making whenever we return to them. God is patient; He desensitizes us one step at a time! I know one person who occasionally posts here who literally became physically ill the first time she tried to do a Beth Moore study on the book of Daniel. She dropped out of the study. Since then she has been able to do a Daniel study. Even things like the Psalms are triggering. In our Monday night women's Bible study at church we've been doing a collection of Psalms this spring. Our first one was Psalm 1...and a dear "Former" friend of mine had to work through her visceral reaction to the word "Law" before we could actually make sense of the psalm. I SOOO get it. And God is faithful! Colleen | ||
| Thalarian Registered user Username: Thalarian Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2006 |
Adventists has a bible called the King James Version with Ellen White Comments.. I remember Collegedale Academy where in Bible Class the teacher who was a elder in the church took different texts and explain that some texts were not to be used since they conflicted with the prophetess Ellen G. White. All in all we were taught that the writings of Ellen G. White was above the Holy Bible. <--- and this deceptive teaching is that of a cult, a deception that fools millions into thinking that the bible has no bearing whatsoever. My brother-in-law a baptist says it best when regarding Ellen G. White, he calls her Ellen God White and that is how lot of adventist regard her a God, her writings Godlike. Adventist summer camp is the worst... Campmeetings are even worse since they use deception to fool people into joining the church, they do like the devil, uses the Bible to fool people into joining the church and then turn around and state, by and by we have these writings called Ellen G White books and they are above the Bible and therefore you must follow them or you will end up in the fires of hell... | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2014 |
My car is junk. The result is I don't go to church any day of the week. My frisk mails me the sevices from the previous week to watch on my dvd player. Works out fine. |
