| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2066 Registered: 7-2004  |
The latest review gives an excellent insight into what SDAism still teaches about the Gospel, freedom in Christ and particularly grace. In the concluding section of the article "The Color of Freedom" William Johnsson quotes EGW regarding our Ultimate Freedom,
Freedom in Christ is the freedom from having any sin in your life. Grace is the power given to overcome all sins. So when as SDA tells you that the Gospel of Christ is that "by grace you have been set free", they may really be saying that by the power given to overcome sin, you may use that power to overcome any and all sin. And if you have not, it is your defective character and lack of faith that causes this failure. It is another gospel, a different gospel than the Gospel of Scripture. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1309 Registered: 2-2011  |
So, ultimately(adventists believe) you choose to lose your salvation by not appropriately responding to 'grace'. IMO~Because of this heresy adventists have NO 'Assurance of Salvation'! Heartbreaking~ Because of lack of 'knowledge' the people perish~ ~mj~ | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 1048 Registered: 8-2008 |
In the Bible, God regenerates the believer through the Holy Spirit, so that the believer is born again. By grace, God grants faith in Jesus Christ to the believer. By this faith, the believer's sins are accounted to Christ on the Cross, while the perfect righteousness of Christ is accounted to the believer. The believer is now saved, regardless of any act he or she has done or will do. This same faith, which takes hold of Jesus Christ, also results in the believer's sanctification, whereby the believer is more and more conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. In Roman Catholic theology, God infuses grace into a believer. However, the believer is not yet justified before God. Instead, the believer must cooperate with the infusion of grace in order to become sinless. At that point, God examines the believer to see if he has indeed become morally perfect. If he has, then God declares the believer to be justified in His sight, and the believer is now saved. In Seventh-day Adventist theology, by grace the believer is given empowerment from God through the Holy Spirit to live sinlessly. By the believer's diligent effort, empowered by the Holy Spirit, he can eventually keep the law perfectly. This justifies God before onlooking worlds, as well as angels. Jesus then examines the believer during the Investigative Judgment. If He finds that the believer has indeed overcome every sin and made perfect confessin of passed sins, Jesus declares that the person is fully forgiven and is righteous in His sight. The person is then saved. I'm trying to find a substantive difference between Roman Catholic and SDA theology on this point. The only major difference seems to be that in Catholicism, a believer who has not yet reached perfection is sent to Purgatory where he can eventually be purged of sin and make it to heaven. Adventists don't even have that hope. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1257 Registered: 7-2005  |
Good comparison between Catholocism and Adventism. They both sound Biblical on the surface, but upon close examination, they're not. In the same way that we humans are not born physically as a result of our own will, we are also not reborn spiritually as a result of our own will. God is the Originator, the Creator and Giver of all life. We are created...we are creatures...we are the recipients of God's generating and regenerating power. WE are NOT the originators of our right-standing with God. To propose that we are is idolatry! I like the KJV of Gal 2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I live by the faith *OF* the Son of God. I am not the generator, even of the faith by which I live. Faith is a gift. God is the giver. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3271 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes, Satan's lie hasn't changed from the first cult to the last!!! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2070 Registered: 7-2004 |
Adventism finds much closer roots in Arius and Pelagius than it does in the Roman Catholic church. Nonetheless, there are other interesting comparisons: Roman Catholics have their distinction between Mortal and Venial sins; where it is only the mortal sins that separate one from the salvation of God. Adventists have different names for this, Willful and Accidental sins. Willful sins condemn you, while accidental sins don't count. Both RCs and SDAs believe that you must confess your Mortal or Willful sins in order for those sins to be forgiven. The primary difference is that the RC confession is a formal part of the church "activity" that includes the priest and absolution. SDAs are on their own. Both have a yo-yo salvation where your serious sins pluck you out of salvation until your confession creates forgiveness for that particular sin. However, where Catholicism offers an absolution for confession/repentance from sin; Adventism only offers a probation. In Catholicism, you only really have to worry about your unconfessed sins. In SDAism, you have to worry that even your confessed sins will still be charged against you if you don't change enough to prove that you merited the probationary forgiveness. Both SDAism and RCism teach that we are saved by grace through faith. What they both deny is that we are saved by grace ALONE through faith ALONE. Both SDAism and RCism would vehemently denounce the idea that they teach salvation by works. They both firmly acknowledge that we are saved by grace from God. And they would both describe grace as both the forgiveness of past sins and the power to live a righteous life. Neither one denies that we are declared righteous, instead they add that this declaration isn't enough, we must also (through the power given to us and placed in us though grace) become or remain righteous. These little differences in words end up creating very different conclusions. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14677 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great summary, Rick. It is the subtle definitions that tell the tale of deception. It's hard to re-form one's worldview to understand that God's grace is actually ALL we need. Adventism is very physical in its analysis of sin. The issue of being dead or alive makes a HUGE difference...we need Jesus because we need to be brought from death to life, not simply because we need to be made "good". And the fact that we receive credit for Jesus' personal righteousness is just not seen in the old physical worldview. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3273 Registered: 7-2007 |
That's the thing that defines ALL the cults. The people in them think that they can become good. Jesus didn't die to make bad people good. He came to make dead people alive. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14682 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Asurprise. I really love that summary statement! Colleen | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 765 Registered: 2-2003  |
That is certainly the point, Adrian | ||
| Mainexile Registered user Username: Mainexile Post Number: 149 Registered: 6-2008  |
Amazing! Thanks for that Rick & Bskillet! I've never heard these things explained so clearly. | ||
| Sialia Registered user Username: Sialia Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2014 |
In my junior bible class at an adventist academy I memorized this definition of grace for a test "Grace is God's enabling power to do his will." I clearly remember the teacher saying that we should remember this definition whenever we were reading the bible and came across the word grace. | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sialia, that definition of grace is the assumption of every discussion I've ever had with an SDA on the topic of "Salvation by Grace alone". It is a definition that locks the works of the individual into their salvation That definition enables an SDA to agree with an evangelical Christian about Salvation by Grace alone without revealing the true SDA teaching and there by working a deception on Christian teachers.... This definition is the biggest stumbling block to an SDA's receiving of the true Gospel and it is only overcome by the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3315 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome to the forum, Sialia!  | ||
| Rioranchoprays Registered user Username: Rioranchoprays Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2014 |
Well, cults love to redefine common Christian terms so it looks like we are all talking about the same thing. Deception comes in various packages, and all cults or false religion believe you have to do something to earn salvation. Only Christianity sees grace as God's true gift to us apart from anything we do to earn it. Christianity Faith in Christ= Salvation, then your good works follow Cultic / SDA version Faith in Christ + Good Works = Salvation In Ephesians 2: 8-10 Paul explain that Salvation is a gift of God based on faith, but even the faith itself comes from God. from the Truth about Adventist 'Truth' by Dale Ratzlaff | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14762 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Sialia! Oh, my goodness...that definition of grace is blasphemous. Jdpascal is right; it locks human work into one's understanding of grace. It is a completely false definition. No wonder your teacher told you to think of that definition every time you read "grace" in the Bible! If you keep that definition in mind, the transforming, shocking power of the real gospel will remain hidden. Praise God He is the One who reveals Himself and draws us to Jesus! Colleen |
