| Author | Message | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 1377 Registered: 5-2009 |
A very new thing that I have found after leaving SDAism is that I can be real about pain...as an adventist I learned to hide pain & imperfections. I don't remember being taught that "out loud", but I WAS taught it nonetheless. I just found a scrap of paper tonight that I had saved long ago & thought I'd share what it says with anyone passing by. I don't know who wrote it... "Lost in grief in a time when I couldn't go on, darkness veiled the dawn. Loneliness was my song, & I could feel no comfort, only pain. Crushed by weariness, I bowed my knee to the mighty King, who suffered Calvary's sting; whose riven side flowed with hope, for the tears of my soul were covered with the fount of His grace. His pierced hands cradled the weight of my faint and weary heart." | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14535 Registered: 12-2003  |
Nowisee, that is amazing. Thank you for sharing that. It's really interesting to me that you have saved that all these years, and in the meantime pain has started to be something you can actually process because of Jesus. In other words, you really know what those words mean now. I have been doing a lot of thinking about pain and trauma and being former Adventists. It seems to be almost universally true that we who grew up in a warped view of reality because of our false gospel and the wrong Jesus have suffered related trauma as well. Because neither we nor our parents nor our SDA teachers knew what was actually REAL and true, there was no ground of truth against which to evaluate our lives. So much abuse hides in Adventist schools and homes, and we learn that we must accept these crazy-making situations as our duty in order to be honoring to our parents and grandparents...and to our church. We can't talk about what happens in our lives because we have to preserve our families' and our schools reputations with "outsiders". A LOT of people figure out that Adventism is wrong, embrace the gospel of Jesus' completed atonement, and then, as their submerged pain begins, inevitably, to surface, they try to find fast ways to fix the hurt. So many formers become caught up in new gospel perversions as they look for easy ways to get beyond the pain. They often throw themselves into charismatic or contemplative/mystical prayer, or teachings that say born again believers do not have a "law of sin" (as Romans 7 puts it) in their flesh that they have to submit to Jesus, or various other things. The only way we heal from our past trauma—and we pretty much all have it—is by allowing Jesus to show us what is real, finding someone trustworthy to talk to about it, and by submitting to God's word. Here's the deal: God knew that the human condition is trauma and pain, and He provided the only way of recovery: the blood of Jesus and learning to live by the Holy Spirit according to biblical truth. The gospel and God's word and His Spirit have to be sufficient for people everywhere: from the woman stamping on yams in Africa with a child tied to her back to a believer imprisoned in a Muslim country to a person holding a demanding job in North America. The Lord Jesus is our Healer, and His word is alive and active. We only grow and heal and become spiritually mature as we submit our pain to Him and allow His word to speak truth into our lives We don't heal by short-circuiting pain and looking for a quick fix from "praying out a spirit" or from seeking charismatic or contemplative experiences. We heal by trust and submission, and by being accountable by sharing what God reveals with someone who understands and trusts God as well. It's back to the last two lines of the verse above, Nowisee..."I bowed my knee to the mighty King, who suffered Calvary's sting; whose riven side flowed with hope, for the tears of my soul were covered with the fount of His grace. His pierced hands cradled the wieght of my faint and weary heart." Colleen | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 523 Registered: 4-2012 |
Yes, we were taught to not show pain or other feelings. I especially was taught, yes, actually taught it is a sin to be angry. I was aways so confused by that because Jesus certainly was angry when He threw out the money changers in the temple. Yes, the adult SDA's in my life when I was a kid taught to show emotional feelings was wrong and that included pain, sorrow, sadness and even true heartfelt joy. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 1029 Registered: 7-2008  |
Jesus also shed tears...Such a loving Savior we have !!! ..Animal | ||
| Bree_w Registered user Username: Bree_w Post Number: 43 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen, I mostly just lurk here...but thanks for your post...it was exactly what I needed to hear today. God bless you! | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2012 |
I am reminded of John 11:35. Jesus wept. We know from the begining of the chapter that He knew what was going to happen. John 11:4. "This sickness will not end in death". He wept because of the pain of all of those who did not yet know what would happen. He shares out pain with us. He cares. (Message edited by CapRoss on August 07, 2013) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14543 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes. And He is in charge of when and how our pain begins to surface after we have suppressed it. Most of us couldn't really deal with our pain before knowing Jesus; He knows what we will face and remember. He knows about our PTSD responses. And He is our strength and healer and the One who is sufficient. He only asks us to do the next right thing. He doesn't promise we will understand, but He promises us Himself. He asks us to trust Him to stay present and grounded in reality. Many times the only way I can stay in touch with the present reality is by doing the very next thing He places in front of me. I have to pray that He will ground me in truth and reality, and then I have to trust Him enough to literally do the next right thing, even if that next right thing is getting out of bed and working, or returning a phone call, or even cleaning up a mess in the kitchen. God knows how to bring to our attention whatever it is we must deal with next...and He knows how to bring us His word to show us what is real in a big picture way. And He brings us trusted people who can talk to us as well. We have to be willing to allow Him to be in charge, not charging ahead ourselves and trying to fix ourselves and get over it quickly. He asks us to trust Him and to be submissive to Him over the long haul. but He gives us His own strength to do what He puts in ront of us to do. My own PTSD responses can be so overwhelming I feel I can't do what's in front of me. God's provision, though, is that I trust Him and lean into Him as I do what's in front of me, and inevitably He restores my equilibrium and gives me His grace and understanding. He really is faithful. Colleen | ||
| Trans4mer Registered user Username: Trans4mer Post Number: 348 Registered: 9-2011  |
Wow, what a thread. All this is deep stuff. I believe that too often we have pain that we can't fully identify and we groan with it. That's where the Holy Spirit, our initial intercessor is so good and helpful with groaning to deep to utter. Carel shared an amazing link on FB to one of John MacArthur's sermons on Romans 8 in a series I'm going to have to have. The focus was on the Holy Spirit and how He gets left behind so much. I've since done a 180 on what I used to think about him. I watched the video last nite over supper and verily feasted in two ways. Charles | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 490 Registered: 5-2009 |
Charles, would you post a link to the John MacArthur's series you commented about, please? thanks! ~Rita | ||
| Trans4mer Registered user Username: Trans4mer Post Number: 350 Registered: 9-2011 |
~Rita, OK Rita, here it is, enjoy! ........... http://www.gty.org/MediaPlayer/sermons/90-425 | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 491 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks Charles! | ||
| Angel9 Registered user Username: Angel9 Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2013 |
Nowisee, what a wise comment! Great discussion. I know an SDA who seems to struggle to show pain or any negative emotion. Could it be because of guilt? Did EGW's writings imply that it was bad to show any type of negative emotions? | ||
| Kbuhler Registered user Username: Kbuhler Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2013 |
I remember my favorite Bible teacher in college, who I went to for support and comfort during a difficult situation in tears, and she slammed her fist down on the desk telling me it was a sin to cry. My mom taught me it was sinful to have any negative emotions. I was told I was not trusting God when I was still crying two weeks after my husband left me for my best friend; or when in tears I told her I was being laid off from the best job I ever had. I could go on and on. Didn't help that I have struggled with suicidal depression since 12 years old thanks to EGW writings. I know my mom experienced many painful situations during her life, and her way of dealing with them was to pretend all was well and not think about it. I just spent a couple weeks with her, and discovered hurts years passed she still carries because she is not allowed to deal with them. So sad! And yes, EGW teaches that its a sin to cry: "My husband’s death was a heavy blow to me, more keenly felt because so sudden. As I saw the seal of death upon his countenance, my feelings were almost insupportable. I longed to cry out in my anguish. But I knew that this could not save the life of my loved one, and I felt that it would be unchristian to give myself up to sorrow. I sought help and comfort from above, and the promises of God were verified to me. The Lord’s hand sustained me. It is a sin to indulge, without restraint, in mourning and lamentation. By the grace of Christ, we may be composed and even cheerful under sore trial." | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1168 Registered: 2-2011  |
"Jesus wept." John 11:35. ~mj~ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14550 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you, MJ. And in that same passage, the verses both before and after "Jesus wept" say that he was deeply moved in spirit, troubled, and again deeply moved within. He absolutely grieved and mourned. He felt deeply, and He experienced everything experience. He even understands the twisting confusion of deceptive teaching. He redeems it all when we trust Him with it. He is faithful. It's unbelievable how dark was the environment from which the Father rescued us! Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2896 Registered: 5-2007  |
One of the last things learned growing up and finally unlearned is the ability to act out what I am really feeling or experiencing. On the 28th Jan and I will have been married 47 years. Tonight, as we went through our devotions and reviewed the trials and stresses of the day I was very much close to tears. Jan shared that she, for the first time ever, saw pain and stress in my words. Since Jesus could weep it is ok if I do also. Fearless Phil (Message edited by philharris on August 12, 2013) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14551 Registered: 12-2003 |
It is OK, Phil. It's very cathartic to cry; it's a good thing. And I'm very, very sorry for the struggles and pain and suffering. You have been carrying a huge load, Phil. You and Jan are always in my prayers. Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1323 Registered: 10-2008 |
kbuhler, Your quote from Ellen White impacted me in a visceral way. Teaching that it is a sin to grieve/mourn is unscriptural. Not only is it unscriptural, but horrific. Jesus taught just the opposite ... He taught that it was a blessing to mourn. Matthew 5:4 says, "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted." This is set in Jesus' sermon on the mount. He also spoke that it was blessed to be "poor in spirit" ... quite opposite from the cultural teachings of Adventism and the unbiblical teachings of Ellen White. In Bible times it was common to "wail"!!! Often scripture speaks of those that mourned covering their heads with ashes and putting on sack cloth. I would say that this type of mourning was without restraint. There does come a point when we need to allow God to comfort us so that we can function and continue in the purposes He has for our life - but NOWHERE in scripture does it call mourning a sin!! The teaching to keep back tears is unscriptural and psychologically damaging. Only once in scripture was someone asked about their mourning. I believe E.G.W. also twists this scriptural passage considerably .... It is very short 1 Sam. 16:1 It was in regards to Samuel's grief over Saul (the king). In closing, I am angered by this cultic teaching by EGW that mourning is a sin .... It is literally from the pit of hell - to not mourn ... Scripture tells us Jesus, was a man of sorrow. Psalms 126: 5-6 5 Those who sow with tears will reap with songs of joy. 6 Those who go out weeping, carrying seed to sow, will return with songs of joy, carrying sheaves with them. Carolyn P.S. Kbuhler - thank you so much for that quote ... Do you have the reference? I believe what you shared is powerful and significant - thank you so much for sharing ... it confirms, again, in my mind how psychologically damaging and unscriptural Ellen White was. | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 497 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jrt, you raised some things that have me thinking. When I went to treatment for emotional repression & depression in 1990, I learned that I was not in touch with my emotions at all. They kept asking me 'how did that make you feel' when I told of happenings in my life. I would answer & they would ask, 'but how did that make you FEEL?' I finally said ' why do you keep asking me that same thing no matter how I answer?!' It was because I was not describing feelings/emotions. I was completely disconnected. I had to be taught, & learn, how to recognize, & then express emotions -- anger, grief, joy, fear, shame, etc. When I first tried to express anger, I was told my sounds were strangled in my throat. My grief & tears were also strangled, rather than coming from deep in the gut. ALL of these emotions are repressed in sdaism. All things fun & for joy, were sinful & denied to us. All other emotions were sinful to feel & express. I agree, EVIL. Horrific. It was only when my father died years later in 2008, that I experienced that true wailing, from-the-gut grief. It was 6 months after he died, & I was going through the last boxes of his things. I played a cassette of music of the men's chorus he sang in for years, & whoa baby! it hit me. I thought I was going to turn inside out grieving & heaving, gut-wrenching sobs. It lasted about 20 minutes. I personally believe that unexpressed emotions do great harm in the body physically as well. I had headaches, & body pain for years. Various doctors could find no explanation, no diagnosis, some medications helped (but not much, not for long), & nothing cured me. After I came home from treatment & practiced things I'd learned, went to support group meetings faithfully, I realized one day that I no longer had the headaches; & the only attack of body pain I had was when my mother died & the funeral home was extremely difficult to deal with. For ME, for sure, the repressed emotions were lethal. It was freeing for me to read & realize the scripture that says "BE angry, & sin not." In certain versions it actually reads like a command: Be Angry. Just don't let it be expressed in sinful ways, wrong actions, hurtful words. And YES it can be done. It's with "I" messages rather than 'You' messages. I have a right to my feelings, AND I have a right to tell you(another person) how I feel. I do NOT have the right to attack another verbally or physically, nor accuse them. But I have those rights, & my emotions are not sinful nor evil. They just ARE. After learning these things, it was so interesting to me as I read through the Bible for the first time, to read how emotional God is!! Especially in expressing how it feels to be the jilted, betrayed lover of Israel -- the fornicating, prostituting partner who promised faithfulness! We can learn, if there is someone to teach us. God can & will heal us. Once we get OUT of egw, OUT of sdaism, and INTO God's word -- WOW!! The TRUTH WILL "OUT"!! Phil, I am glad that you, personally, & then together with Jan, are allowing yourselves to feel, & be real. That is a good thing. Praise Him!! ~ Rita | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14556 Registered: 12-2003 |
Powerful, Rita. And thank you, Jrt. Ellen completely messed with us and our entire environment. I think a lot of us learned, as SDA children, that our feelings couldn't be expressed. Our job was to make our parents look good and not to present them with the trouble of having unpleasant emotions. Colleen |
