| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 664 Registered: 2-2010 |
This is an excerpt from a book I bought earlier today from a series called, "How to Respond" and this one is "How to Respond to the Cults". In it is a section that defines what a cult is. I want to share some of that and then an excerpt from the section on the mentality of the cults. Begin Quote: "The difficulty in defining a 'cult' can be illustrated by a sampling of definitions: 'A cult is a religious perversion,' says Dave Breese. 'It is a belief and practice in the world of religion which calls for devotion to a religious view or leader centered in false doctrine. It is an organized heresy.' (know the marks of cults, p. 16)." "Dr. Walter Martin emphasizes the importance of a central figure to a cult. He says that 'a cult might also be defined as a group of people gathered about a specific person or person's misinterpretation of the Bible' (Kingdom of the cults, p.11)." "The Mentality of the Cults" There is, then, no one umbrella under which all cults may be placed, and we must avoid over-generalization. Yet some marks of the cults are common enough that a 'mentality of the cults' can be identified. The doctrine of the last days and last things is a frequent theme among cults. Signs pointing to the imminent end of the world are emphasized in these teachings. For example, the 'thousand year reign' of Jehova following the great battle of Armageddon is stressed among groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses and the Branch Davidians. Signs and warnings of how rapidly the world is falling into judgement take on a flavor and intention all their own in the cults. Prophesy and fulfillment themes also reveal the mentality of the cults. Quoting selected prophecies and coupling them with selected 'fulfillments' in world events often exerts tremendous influence on people. This use of scripture is highly selective and very manipulative. Special revelations (often specifically to the cultic leader) are frequently the basis for 'correct' interpretation of a particular prophecy and its fulfillment. This, of course, makes dialog with such groups extremely difficult. How can one reasonably disagree when special revelations have been given from God to a particular person? There is no space for reason. All discussion is based on the leader's authority which, in turn, is based on special revelation alone. The authority of the cult leader is regularly exercised in the interpretation of the 'inner secrets,' meaning 'saving knowledge.' Revelations, secret rituals, and symbols require authoritarian interpretation. Only those 'on the inside' can have this authority. This sense of secretiveness also gives rise to castes or inner structures of authority to preserve and pass on this 'inside knowledge.'... ...A form of double-talk also characterizes cults. By this, we mean that they use ordinary terms in special ways that only the cult members understand. Since this special use of terms varies considerably from cult to cult, there is no way to be certain that one understands a second cult when one has 'mastered' the vocabulary of the first one. The one things that must be kept in mind is this: What a word means to you is by no means what the same word may mean to a cult member. This makes dialog with cult members difficult. A complete lack of interest in logical consistency accompanied this double-talk. The mental flip-flops that members of cults make bewilder the ordinary hearer. Their greatest inconsistencies, in fact, may be displayed at precisely the most crucial junctures, causing great difficulty in carrying on ordinary conversations. Drawing their attention to this only makes them certain that the listener has not yet seen the light. Cults are convinced that their 'way' will be proved in the end. Some groups, of course, have no particular anticipations of victory. Those involved in transcendental meditation, for example, would not speak of an 'end' or 'proof' or 'victory.' Yet ultimate authentication in some great and final sign is a common characteristic of most cults." End Quote There is much more in this section and it ends by saying that rarely will a cult have several or all of these but usually their are some. Looking over the chapter, SDA'ism has all of them in some form. I remember how upset I was when trying to figure out if it was ok to call SDA'ism a cult. But based on this book, it FITS! This is truly heart breaking! Here is a link to the book: http://www.christianbook.com/how-respond-the-cults-3rd-edition/hubert-beck/9780758616210/pd/616210 | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2012 |
One of the most clearly written and helpful definitions I've read! Thanks for posting!! From this description, you'd think the author was talking specifically about Adventism. | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2012 |
So, I clicked on the link and saw other books this auhor has written about specific cults. It still upsets me that Adventism is never included in the list... I grew up being taught (with pride!) that Walter Martin didn't classify "us" as a cult, so we weren't. It is quite a testament to the complete deception of Adventism that Martin, an expert on cults, was so fooled. Adventism is the epitome of an organization of wolves in sheeps clothing. Martin actually believed the SDAs he met with were being truthful! I think he actually saw the truths and implications of the false doctrines but was deceived by the SDA facade of Christ-centered double talk. I know he talked about this later in his life and included an appendix about SDAs in his revised book, but I believe the damage had already been done in Christianity and in Adventism with him leaving SDAs out of the cult list the first time around. Adventists took his "Get out of Jail Free" card and ran with it, never looking back. Somehow, most of Chrisitianity has followed along. But, the Bible warns of this, so we shouldn't be surprised. What's shocking is that I was part of it and didn't even know it, and all the while being taught to look out for (and be paranoid of) deception... What a testimony to the power and love of God that any of us got out at all! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8094 Registered: 9-2006  |
As far back as 2006 there were so many people that would not admit that Adventism was a cult, and if you called Adventism a cult you usually were met with much resistance. They wanted to view it as just innocent brothers and sisters who had 'peculiar beliefs'. I'm talking about former Adventists here, not 'never beens', as far as I know, me and Gracealone were the only never beens on the forum at the time. I understand it, because in admitting it is a cult it puts their loved ones in a much more dangerous position (under that light). I think those who never are able to admit that Adventism is a cult are more likely to end up in other stuff such as new age, Catholism, or other off the wall churches. I am not trying to speak as an authority on the subject, just some observations I have seen over the years (or thought I saw). River | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 920 Registered: 1-2007 |
I am in a bible study with a gal (non Adventist) who thinks Adventism is the greatest thing next to cream cheese because it saved her brothers marriage and so if I bring up something I learned as an adventist she just goes off because she does not want to hear it and will talk over me. She absolutely thinks they are christian and will not listen to anything said against their teachings. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 665 Registered: 2-2010 |
River, I **completely** agree and I appreciate you saying it! Lyrical, it frustrates me too. It's like I'm reading about Adventism and yet it's not included. There is another section that had me blown away, I just have to share it. "A final caution: Because cults usually include at least one unusual but visible teaching, people on the outside often think of that one item as the main difference between the cult and its parent group. However, that item often is a nonessential or a relatively minor matter. For example, when people think of Jehovah's Witnesses, blood transfusion and a refusal to pledge allegiance to the flag usually come to mind. Focusing on such surface items is deceptive, though, for the pints of division lie much deeper than that and are more serious." Sabbath anyone?! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 666 Registered: 2-2010 |
Gfrankie, start praying... it is a spiritual deception.  | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2012 |
Gcfankie, I recently had someone excitedly and enthusiastically exclaim when they learned we'd left Adventism... "Oh, the first real Christians I ever knew where Adventists!" Needless to say, that ended the conversation - cold. (And, interestingly... she was raised Jewish!) Free2dance, Thanks for that next quote too! As I was reading it, I thought the nonessential or realtively minor matter that many people associate with Adventism, in addition to the Sabbath, is vegetarianism. Of course, as we know... Adventists would shutter at Sabbathkeeping being considered nonessential! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 668 Registered: 2-2010 |
"Of course, as we know... Adventists would shutter at Sabbath keeping being considered nonessential!" Lol... indeed they would! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 973 Registered: 2-2011  |
It is disheartening when as a "Former" you are trying to present the beliefs of adventists to Christians! So many Christians are deceived, and seem to want to stay that way, no matter what 'you' have to say! could it be, that if they did show a true interest in the teachings of the cult of adventism, they might be called upon to "do something?" Such as, change their preconceived ideas, and have a "heart" for adventists? In my experience, many pastors in Christian churches, teach their members to "stay away from the cults" and study their Bibles more, so they will recognize deception! I think this is thoughtful counsel, but, if the members do not have some 'true' knowledge regarding what the 'cult' teaches (adventism, in this case), what good is it? IMO~ in churches, it begins from the "top" down~ so, it is the Christian pastors who need to be completely informed about adventist doctrines~ Because they are not, they are 'unknowingly' perpetuating the misconception of what adventists believe, as being, "just like we are", adventists just don't eat meat, and worship on a "different" day! Maybe, just maybe, "Formers" might consider informing their pastors about adventist doctrines, by giving them a copy of the pamphlet, "10 Questions and Answers on Seventh day-Adventism", published by 'Rose Publishing Co'. I believe this is a good way to begin pastors education, as well as others. ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2977 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yeah, when I was SDA; if I read a book that said the SDA church wasn't a cult, then I accepted it as "proof" it wasn't. If it DID say it was a cult, I still accepted that as "proof" it wasn't because I thought the "one true church" was supposed to seem a little odd. So, one couldn't win for losing when trying to convince me! Free2dance; that's an excellent discription of a cult! Ellen White certainly was the authoritarian figure in my life and as an Adventist if I ever had any doubts, I just remembered the "miracles" she did - you know; holding up that heavy Bible and reading verses without looking, etc... Revelation 16:14 says demons will work miracles in the last days... | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 155 Registered: 4-2012 |
MJ, I believe you are correct about this. The Christian leadership NEEDS to know! I started in on the two leaders in our church recently. I've made comments here and there, and they kinda just didn't seem to get it. So, a few weeks ago I emailed them both a little visual aid. Do you remember the photo from 2011 of the kid at Camp Au Sable with 4 staff members dressed in camo pointing guns at his head, supposedly acting out "the last days" as means of preparation for the end of time? Yup... I sent them that photo with a little info about what it was (and a link to more photos), the letters that were exchanged with the Michigan SDA Conference, and some lovely end-of-times/Catholic/Christian-hunting Sabbath-keepers doctrine. I explained that there are many SDAs that wouldn't agree with this end-of-time mock up, but also told them about the underlying doctrine driving the photo that the SDA church DOES teach. I also "joked" that I bet they never knew they'd potentially be murderers of Sabbath-keepers in the end. They were both completely stunned and horrified, thanked me profusely and now... they want to know more! Yeah!! Perhaps we need to use the shock factor with leadership? A picture is worth a thousand words! By the way... I was also subjected to this sort of mock-up (only without guns) at camp when I was a kid and so was my brother. My brother has serious trauma reactions now and fully emotionally decompensated when he saw this photo. I told our leadership about this and I think now they're understanding more fully the real struggles my husband and I are facing in transitioning out of a cult and into Christianity. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 975 Registered: 2-2011 |
Lyrical! You took a brave approach with the Pastor of your church! I have only made sure my Pastor has the '10 Questions and Answers' I referenced in my post # 973~ I, too, was scared to death, by adventist teachers and pastors regarding being, "hunted like animals for keeping the sabbath," in the adventist 'end-times' scenario! and if caught, being jailed in underground caves, built by the Catholic church for this explicit purpose! Talk about nightmares, accompanied by "hives"! all this being taught at the elementary school age! it is now inconceivable to me that this was allowed! However, as I always say~ Praise GOD for HIS Mercy and Grace, for "making a way" for me and other members of my family to "come out"! ~mj~ | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8095 Registered: 9-2006 |
Lyrical, Could you give me a link to the pictures? Could I just say this? Christian Pastors, or leaders, or any other people you tell about Adventism will not have much reaction unless the Holy Spirit touches their heart for what you are telling them. No work is done without Holy Spirit. None. I wouldn't even be on this forum without the Holy Spirit touched my heart. Probably someone was praying somewhere,so we have to pray and trust him to do the work. If we pray and open our mouths, God will do the work, and we can't be disappointed if we don't see the reaction we desire. Most pastors, if they see you are committed, will allow you to work at least. In one place in scripture it reads like this:Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs. Matthew 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. That woman was committed, and we have to stay committed and not loose heart. If you get discouraged? Hey, ya don't have to stay discouraged...pray and the Lord will lift you up. Stay at it, stay committed.  River | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2012 |
http://arthurandteresabeem.blogspot.com/2011/07/part-ii-sda-camp-mock-up-of-last-day.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertmohr/sets/72157627202843753/ | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 976 Registered: 2-2011 |
River~ Thank-you for your reminder that only when the HOLY SPIRIT touches hearts is anything accomplished for GOD~! We are to pray and never give up~ And speak the 'Truth of GOD's word in Love'~ ~mj~ | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 977 Registered: 2-2011 |
Lyrical~ I, also, thank-you for providing the links! I believe these photos were taken in 2011? Along with the letters and blogs. The defenders of this activity (which includes the conference president), are derelict in their responsibilities to the young people in their care at this camp! Any one using guns pointed and held against the heads of these children for any reason is NOT O.K.! The adventist "beat" goes on~ ~mj~ | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 317 Registered: 4-2012 |
My mother was so devout SDA that she refused to shop at the local Christian bookstore because in the section on cults it had one book with one chapter on the SDA. She'd go to the cult section in bookstores and stores that had book sections and if there was anything referring to SDA as a cult she forever boycotted that store. That to me in itself seems really mind controlled by a cult! And, speeking of bad pictures, remember those hideous pictures in the childrens books of people halfway our of their graves? I know several people, all adults now who still have nightmares about those pictures. The SDA childrens art is vile and hideous. | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 157 Registered: 4-2012 |
MJ, Yes, the photos were taken in 2011. I agree with what you said and I think that what happened there (and happens at other SDA institutions) is child abuse - plain and simple. Child Protective Services was contacted about this incident and the SDA church hid behind their "rights" as a religious organization - as they've done with EVERY accusation of illegal action ever brought against them. I don't know if sending this info to our pastors was brave... I think it was just a prompting of the Holy Spirit, as I hadn't thought about this incident or the photos in quite some time. I'm really at a point now that I have nothing else to lose, so I might as well do what I feel prompted to do. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2978 Registered: 7-2007 |
Punababe808; I don't remember seeing pictures of people half out of their graves, but I remember seeing pictures of resurrected people where the women wore dresses and high heels and the men wore suits. (Especially wearing high heels on the grass!) I wondered why it was necessary to meet Jesus in their Sabbath best... |
