| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 610 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hey guys, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind helping me out. I am compiling a list of quotes from EGW that I think would be helpful in exposing her to young people. Would you mind sharing with me some of the ones that were significant in causing you to see her for what she was? They are most helpful if we can show where the quotes can be found. Also, if there are any words of encouragement that you could give them that you wouldn't mind me sharing with them, that would be helpful too. I want them to know that there are former SDA's all over the country/world who support each other and understand the journey. Perhaps some scripture, a promise, or some advice on how to go about this journey of examining their faith tradition and coping with what they learn. Also, several of the teens there are already formers, so any encouragement for them as they deal with cousins and other SDA relatives would be great. Thank you! Nikki | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 867 Registered: 5-2002  |
An Appeal To Mothers - The Cause of the Physical, Mental, and Moral Ruin of Many of the Chilren of Our Time (1864). A particular quote is hardly needed because this book is full of problematic statements from page one all the way to the end. This book marks the beginning of the Adventist "Health Message", yet is no longer in publication. I was unaware of it until I started investigating Adventism, and many Adventists remain unaware that it even exists. Once I read this book, I was done as an Adventist. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 611 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thank you, Freeatlast. Is there anything in particular that stands out to you from that book? I found something about it here: http://books.google.com/books/about/An_Appeal_to_Mothers.html?id=MFJEHQAACAAJ (Message edited by Free2dance on January 30, 2013) | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 868 Registered: 5-2002 |
If I had to pick just one quote, it would be this gem: "The state of our world was presented before me, and my attention was especially called to the youth of our time. Everywhere I looked, I saw imbecility, dwarfed forms, crippled limbs, misshapen heads, and deformity of every description. Sins and crimes, and the violation of nature’s laws, were shown me as the causes of this accumulation of human woe and suffering. I saw such degradation and vile practices, such defiance of God, and I heard such words of blasphemy, that my soul sickened. From what was shown me, a large share of the youth now living are worthless. Corrupt habits are wasting their energies, and bringing upon them loathsome and complicated diseases. Unsuspecting parents will try the skill of one physician after another, who prescribe drugs, when they generally know the real cause of the failing health, but for fear of offending and losing their fees, they keep silent, when as faithful physicians they should expose the real cause. Their drugs only add a second great burden for abused nature to struggle against, which often breaks down in her efforts and the victim dies. And the friends look upon the death as a mysterious dispensation of providence, when the most mysterious part of the matter is, that nature bore up as long as she did against her violated laws. Health, reason, and life, were sacrificed to depraved lusts. I have been shown that children who practice self-indulgence previous to puberty, or the period of merging into manhood and womanhood, must pay the penalty of nature’s violated laws at that critical period. Many sink into an early grave, while others have sufficient force of constitution to pass this ordeal. If the practice is continued from the ages of fifteen and upward, nature will protest against the abuse she has suffered, and continues to suffer, and will make them pay the penalty for the transgression of her laws, especially from the ages of thirty to forty-five, by numerous pains in the system, and various diseases, such as affection of the liver and lungs, neuralgia, rheumatism, affection of the spine, diseased kidneys, and cancerous humors. Some of nature’s fine machinery gives way, leaving a heavier task for the remaining to perform, which disorders nature’s fine arrangement, and there is often a sudden breaking down of the constitution, and death is the result." Pages 17, 18 You can read the entire book online at the EGW Estate. Just input "appeal to mothers" in your search criteria and click on "table of contents" then advance page by page through the ridiculous mess. (Message edited by freeatlast on January 30, 2013) | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 612 Registered: 2-2010 |
Oh My!!! Here it is: <http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/appeal.htm> | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 613 Registered: 2-2010 |
Unbelievable... I am seriously speechless... I have only read the first 5 paragraphs out of the link above as well as your quotes and I am shocked!! SERIOUSLY?! Do Adventists know about this??? | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 614 Registered: 2-2010 |
"Godly mothers will inquire, with the deepest concern, Will our children continue to practice habits which will unfit them for any responsible position in this life? Will they sacrifice comeliness, health, intellect, and all hope of Heaven, everything worth possessing, here and hereafter, to the demon passion?" This entire book is about...that?! You are right, there isn't any single quote...it really is the whole thing. Sigh... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14254 Registered: 12-2003  |
Her fixation on "self abuse" suggests to me that she had other, deeper issues. I strongly suspect EGW was a victim of molestation as a child. There's just WAAAY to much fixation on sex (as in this booklet and her testimonies to wives about not letting their husbands see them undressed and not indulging in marital relations for self-gratification but for procreation) in addition to her relentless drumbeat of "health reform" that attempted to drown out and destroy "animal passions" by denying oneself real food and flavor. There was serious pathology here...and who even knows how many thousands of children have been warped by parents who believed this stuff to be from God? Colleen | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 615 Registered: 2-2010 |
I agree, Colleen, it's not natural to obsess over these things without having some kind of history of abuse. What I don't understand is how the early Adventists engaged in orgies when they had a prophet teaching like this. Is that just a rumor or is there evidence that went on? This really does go with the thread about the obsession of the physical within Adventism. It looks a lot cleaner now and it isn't all focused on the things this book is, but it is all related. Self denial and will power for purification and a full life. | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 869 Registered: 5-2002 |
There is even deeper subtext to the book in that it is replete with references to "vital force" and "animal passions". This is consistent with the teachings of James Caleb Jackson, a phrenologist mentioned by name in another of Ellen's books. She acknowledges that Dr. Jackson examined her son Willie's head. The Adventist "health message" is deeply rooted in concepts from phrenology. Colleen, there is much evidence that temporal lobe epilepsy from head trauma is frequently accompanied by anhedonia (no sex drive). She was also frequently in the company of Victorian-era anti-masturbation crusaders such as Drs. Kellogg and Graham and I think this has much to do with Ellen's obsession with diminishing the "animal passions" by diet and behavior modification. The article "porn flakes" gives some very interesting history behind the breakfast cereal on American tables. http://www.stayfreemagazine.org/10/graham.htm (Message edited by freeatlast on January 30, 2013) | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 870 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hey, they're teens and the subject is sex so at least it would stimulate discussion! As for helpful texts, many people find that friends, relatives and/or co-workers are suddenly distant or disconnected even if they find out you are just researching/questioning. It was certainly my experience! This text was very special to me: "When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up." Psalm 27:10 And He did! He has placed many mothers and fathers (and brothers, sisters, cousins!) in my life since I left Adventism (and, essentially, my family). For every family member I missed or lost, I gained dozens. FAF was instrumental during the questioning and transition period, there is a wealth of information, understanding, empathy and support here. Invite them to lurk. Let them know we are praying for them. | ||
| Eternal_joy Registered user Username: Eternal_joy Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2012 |
On this topic, I did some research into Ellen's writings on sex, and I found this. It nearly blew me away and brought tears to my eyes. It is from the compilation entitled: "Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce." It is from a letter Ellen was writing to a child molester. I stumbled across this phrase: "Any youth who would submit her body to be handled by a man is in no way fit for the kingdom of heaven." So...a child's rape is HER OWN FAULT?!?! The entire letter implies that the girls being molested submitted their bodies to the abuser and were tempted by him, as if him raping them was what they wanted and their own fault! And that this will cause them to lose eternal life. Wow. Just wow. I have no words. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 891 Registered: 2-2011  |
Eternal_joy~ I have 'words'~ disgusting and putrid~ to state only a few! Shame on 'egw'~ Also, shame on anyone who continues to believe that she is a "Messenger" from GOD, After becoming aware of her real 'identity'~ as a propagator of lies~ ! ~mj~ | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 639 Registered: 5-2009  |
I'm going to take this in a different direction. How about asking them to tell you what they remember about various stories from the Bible. Then show them examples from childhood/youth SS lessons and Your Story Hour, etc. Then read those stories from the Bible and list all of the things that they notice different from the 2 accounts. It would help them to see how she added to the Bible and changed some things in order to suit her agenda. And it would help them to see how her version of the Bible is still believed and taught. | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2012 |
Cloudwatcher, Great idea. I am still having to re-read stories out of Scripture to make sure my understanding is correct. I'm shocked at how many subtle things I believed are nowhere to be found in Scripture! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 618 Registered: 2-2010 |
Cloudwatcher, I think that is a wonderful idea! I just don't know a whole lot about all that. from 9-19 I wasn't in church because I lived with my mother so I didn't grow up with the Your Story Hour or childrens/youth Sabbath School lessons. I don't know that I have enough time between now and then to get that together. Do you have any examples that I could use to give them a taste of the error? There are three things we want to accomplish during the weekend (in case someone who comes never comes back) 1. Tell them the true gospel 2. Teach them how to read and study the Bible 3. Discredit the Adventist prophet and method of Bible study and teaching. Nothing is in stone, we will know better what the weekend will look like after this weekend, but this is where we see seeds being planted that might open their eyes to other things in the future as they walk through Adventism. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 619 Registered: 2-2010 |
Eternal_Joy, it makes me want to cry... There will be millions in shock at the great white throne judgement. | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 641 Registered: 5-2009 |
This is my pet project, so I am willing to help you with the specifics anyway I can. Email me! I have stuff! | ||
| Eternal_joy Registered user Username: Eternal_joy Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2012 |
Cloudwatcher, I think that is a wonderful idea. Since I am not much older than a teen myself, I'd love to give some encouragement to the teens. Leaving Adventism is hard. It will not be easy, especially if you are the only one in your family who is leaving. But God is faithful. He will be your Father, and He is a Father who always provides for His kids. He will replace and even surpass what has been lost. He surrounded me with so many wonderful mother and father figures in my life and is showing me what unconditional love looks like. The cost is great, but knowing the Lord Jesus is greater. He will never leave you, no matter what happens. You are eternally secure in His love. To those who are leaving behind family, these verses were a great encouragement to me: "'I tell you the truth,' Jesus replied, 'no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.'" Mark 10:29,30 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life." Matthew 19:29 To those who are leaving with their families...you are so blessed to have your family going through this with you! You may not understand all of what has happened. You may be angry or confused about what your parents are doing. Don't keep those feelings locked inside. Talk to your parents. They understand those feelings because they have likely felt the same things. Let them explain to you the reasons why Christians must separate from the SDA church. Let them share with you the Gospel, because, I can guarantee you that the true Gospel is like nothing you have heard in Adventism. Jesus is so much better than anything that Adventism has to offer. He's better than the Sabbath. He's a better Friend. He's a better Savior. He's a better community. He's a better security. Jesus and His grace are completely amazing and worth whatever is the cost of following Him. Peace is not hard to find, for He is our peace. Only He can offer you true salvation assurance and only in Him will you find rest. “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30 He wants you to KNOW that you HAVE eternal life. How can you have eternal life? Simply by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. In that moment, you are saved, you are made alive, you are a child of God, you are completely forgiven (past, present, and future) and NOTHING can EVER change that. In Christ, you have true security and rest because you know you are loved and not condemned, you know that Jesus will never leave you, and you know that you are accepted and forgiven. Believe and receive, then rest in the goodness of this gift of grace. "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:13 "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, 'Abba,Father.' The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us...what, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:15-18,31-35,37-39 | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 639 Registered: 2-2010 |
Eternal_joy, THANK YOU! May I start a new thread sharing your letter and asking others to contribute? I would love to get permission to print these letters and put them in the Teen folders for them to take home. They will remain confidential. | ||
| Eternal_joy Registered user Username: Eternal_joy Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2012 |
Go right ahead, Free2dance.  No worries about confidentiality, either. Everyone who doesn't know I'm out will know by FAF weekend! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 1260 Registered: 5-2009 |
I'm including a quote that used to make my blood run cold: (EGW is describing what happens when "the 3rd angel's message closes", SDAs have received the latter rain, the angel returns from earth & "announces that his work is done". People have gone through "the final test" (Sabbath) & the "loyal" have received "the seal of the living God"): "Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above....(next paragraph): "In that fearful time the righteous must live in THE SIGHT OF A HOLY GOD WITHOUT AN INTERCESSOR." The Great Controversy, near the beginning of the chapter, "The Time of Trouble.") Compare to Heb. 7:25: ""Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, BECAUSE HE ALWAYS LIVES TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM.' Ellen talks a lot in the GC about Christ stopping His intercession. **You could always make it fun & give a prize to the teen that finds the Bible verse that describes the black cloud the size of a man's hand that appears in the sky before the Second Coming : ) ! |
