| Author | Message | ||
| Hannah Registered user Username: Hannah Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2012 |
I've noticed that Jesus is not discussed on a personal level with my SDA family members. Is this typical, and if so, why? They do mention God, and in response to my talking about Jesus they may mention "Christ" once in awhile but that's about it. Just wondering, and trying to gain a better understanding of SDA theology. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2876 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, I believed that Jesus died for my sins, but only if I did my part - keep on repenting - in order to be saved. And also, be making "progress" in the Christian life. Jesus was also my "example." I didn't talk much about Him. He's not EVERYTHING to SDAs the way He is to real Christians. Usually when I got together with other SDAs, I might talk about the Sunday law and fleeing to the mountains, that I was taught was coming. (And of course the Sabbath, if I thought my relatives weren't keeping it well enough.) My ambition for eternity was the things I could do and see in Heaven, not being with Jesus. I didn't resent Jesus for being an impossible "example," at least not on a concious level; but I didn't have any sort of relationship with Jesus. Adventists might speak of a relationship with Jesus, but if they do, they're simply parroting Christians. Other than trying to "overcome their sins in Jesus' strength" as they are taught they must do, the words "relationship with Jesus" are just words with no other meaning. Jesus to Adventists is just a strict God through Who's power they must be overcoming sins in order to be saved. The gospel isn't good news to them. It's all about striving and overcoming, so talking about Jesus is kind of a drag to them. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 746 Registered: 2-2011  |
Hannah~ Speaking from own experience(being an adventist from birth,until 17 years ago) JESUS was very real to me as a small child~ I prayed to HIM and believed that HE was my SAVIOR, and would take me home to "heaven" someday~ not if I was "good enough", but because he loved me~ This all began to change when I hit about 10 to 11 years old and began to really be indoctrinated with the adventist beliefs~ this was in preparation to being baptized into the church~ Needless, to say, all my "Joy in JESUS" went out the window of my mind and then the "Fear" set in for real~ this is what I have stated before, that I was "raised in Fear"~ Then it was all about GOD and the Law~ pleasing GOD~ based on my obedience to HIS Law~ then HE would accept me as HIS child~ Also, concurrent with this was the down playing of who JESUS is~ it was subtle, but nevertheless, real~ as I matured into young adulthood, the adventist 'society', of church and school was the arena for my relationships~ and the belief that I was so fortunate to have the "Truth"~ through the ministry of Ellen G. White, the prophet~ now that I am writing this, it is , like "she" almost replaced JESUS in my thinking! odd~ I will have to give this more thought! In closing, "No", I do not find it strange that your relatives do not mention JESUS very often, much less give HIM Praise and Honor for the Great Things HE has done!~ ~mj~ | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 235 Registered: 4-2012 |
The short answer to your quesetion is "yes ".™The beat explained reason i can come up with is SDA people, EGW And the official teaching is that's Jesus is not so much our saviour as our example. HE became our saviour after completing a sin free life And setting the example that's were too can achieve since free lives. | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 93 Registered: 4-2012 |
As an Adventist I, too, talked little of Jesus and felt somewhat uncomfortable when I did. I could talk about Him as a person... his life... his "story," with ease, but not about having a relationship with Him. In Adventism, Jesus is primarily seen as the perfect example, sent by God, to show that we also have the ability to live a perfect life (and keep a perfect law) through the power of God (just as Jesus did). There is no emphasis or understanding on having a personal relationship with Jesus, because the focus is on Him being an example to us. Jesus is a teacher and mentor, but not a Savior in the sense that real Christians understand Him to be. There really is no need for a personal relationship with Jesus because so much emphasis is placed on the person needing to do the right things, make good choices, keep the Sabbath, etc. Perhaps it's uncomfortable for an SDA to talk about Jesus because who He is and what He really did does not fit very well into the SDA framework and worldview. Also, there is no real concept to an SDA of what He actually did for us on the cross. Because His atonement wasn't complete at the cross and the SDA must continue confessing sins and working toward perfection, there is no understanding or acceptance of His full and complete gift of salvation. Because you have to keep doing something to stay saved (primarily Sabbath-keeping and living a "clean" lifestyle), a SDA cannot comprehend the concept of Christ's death being a complete atonement for our sins that automatically passes us from death to life once we believe. (Not to mention the Sanctuary and Investigative Judgment doctrines that add to the concept that the atonement was not completed fully at the cross.) The entire event of Christ's death and resurrection and what it signified is lost on most SDAs. They speak about it in the same terms as other Christians, but have no idea what it really meant. Jesus ushered in a completely new era and established a new covenant, but SDA's refuse to see this and really are trying to live with one foot in the old covenant and one in the new. (Of course, most SDAs woudln't even be able to begin to tell you what the new covenant is anyway!) I don't know how it was for other SDAs, but an example in my life of just how much Jesus was downplayed was how I experienced Easter. Easter Sunday in my pretty conservative SDA home was all about the Easter bunny, chocolate, egg hunts, etc. Jesus's death and resurrection may have been given a nod at the church service on Sabbath, but there was NEVER anything special about the weekend or the church service. I remember feeling that it was wrong to celebrate Easter in a spiritual sense because it was on Sunday and any form of worship that gave homage to Sunday just might be mistaken as "Sunday worship." We wouldn't want to risk getting the mark of the beast by celebrating Christ's resurrection! Those are just some of my thoughts on why Jesus is not central in the lives of SDAs... I'm sure there are other reasons as well. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 749 Registered: 2-2011 |
Lyrical~ In response to your above post #93~ My Thoughts~'Exactly'!!! ~mj~ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14127 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lyrical, I completely agree. In Adventism, Jesus is sort-of a "demigod". Oh, he's "God", but not Almighty God. Not equal to the Father in every way. He was human and meek and laid aside His God-power to be a perfect example. I was overtly taught that if He had been unable to sin and in any way "advantaged" over us, He couldn't have been our Savior. So He was a meek, mild, loving man who allowed people to persecute him without retaliating...showing me how I, too, was to react with love and meekness to the point of persecution and death in order to imitate him if necessary. He was "icky" in a hard to explain way. He was for children. Adults talk about "God". Jesus was the kids' version. None of this was overt, but it was rampantly practiced. Adults in Adventism hate to talk about Jesus by name, and they have no sense of His sacrifice for them personally. Rather, His sacrifice is seen almost as a guilt-producing event where he was humiliated to prove how bad we humans were to him...and "he never said a mumblin' word." This phenomenon is related to the fact that Adventism's Jesus is a spirit-less man just as they think they are. They believe his genes from Mary had genetic imperfections that carried the race's sinful degeneration, but he managed not to act on those flaws. Jesus in Adventism isn't even the final sin-bearer. Satan is as the scapegoat. Jesus hasn't finished anything yet; he's still in a great controversy with Satan. It's a great deception. Adventism has replaced Jesus, the one "thing" needed for salvation, with Sabbath. Adventists' love is for the Sabbath, and "God" is generic and good. To Adventists, "God" is whoever we want to call him, including Allah. Jesus, however, is something different. He doesn't fit with a God who can be called "Allah". The Adventist Jesus isn't God Almighty who has already purchased us from death. He is an insipid and good man who puts us to shame. I hated saying his name, and I didn't even know why. Now I understand it. Colleen | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2012 |
Great insights, Colleen. I resonated with all that too... The deception is so subtle and the implications are profoundly devastating. | ||
| Hannah Registered user Username: Hannah Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2012 |
There is so much here that all of you have written that is exactly what I am experiencing with my family! When I brought up the subject of persecuted Christians around the world and how we (I) have never experienced true persecution as others have, a family member said that persecution comes in different forms - her father was denied work for years because he refused to work on the Sabbath. I was a bit shocked in that her definition of persecution revolved around the Sabbath and not on faith in Jesus. There's also talk about a Christian's lifestyle which proves their salvation as well as the goal of self-perfection. And then there's the topic of "heading for the hills". There is so much more! Thank you all for your patience. I'm trying to educate myself as best I can and I still have many, many questions. I'm glad to see that my experiences with my family members is not unique, but it solidifies the alarm bells going off when things are stated. | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 236 Registered: 4-2012 |
Colleen, the way you explain things is similar to how i was raised but with one major difference. The Sabbath. I have kin who are Seventh Day Baptist, Church Of God (Senenth Day) and whatever the name of the church now is that was the Worldwide Church of God. The SDA 's don't regard those other Sabbath observing groups with any more respect than they do Sunday churches. In fact, i have kin who tell me God's mercy will shine brighter on the Moslems than Sunday keepers because Moslems have The truth about pork (and alcohol) . | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14131 Registered: 12-2003 |
Punababe, yes. I know what you mean. I just have to say one thing about that "running to the hills" scenario; Richard remarks that clearly EGW never envisioned the existence of reconnaissance satellites when she wrote about running to the hills to hide from the Sunday-keepers. What with night-vision and satellite photos and GPS, there's no safety in running for the hills! Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2778 Registered: 5-2007  |
Thermal imaging satellites are used to monitor forest fires and can detect illegal camp fires during fire season in such places as national forests and parks. Once having zeroed in on a location of interest they can image the heat given off by a human body. And, there is the current hot topic of the use of armed drones…..so yes, there really is no place to hide in the way Old Ellen envisioned. So, if you think you will live in the End Times without a mediator and are aware of all this modern technology, you have to be a really troubled person. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14134 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lol, Phil! You said it well!! Colleen |
