| Author | Message | ||
| Dalvarenga Registered user Username: Dalvarenga Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2012  |
Hi all, I opened a facebook page to promote the Sabbath in Christ book, which was a true blessing on my life. If you have a facebook account, please visit and like the page: http://facebook.com/sabbathinchrist | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14081 Registered: 12-2003  |
I liked it! Colleen | ||
| Eternal_joy Registered user Username: Eternal_joy Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2012 |
Me too! | ||
| Dalvarenga Registered user Username: Dalvarenga Post Number: 77 Registered: 3-2012 |
Wow, the page started to get some comments. Here is one of the latest: "An intensive deductive study through the Book of Acts and the writings of Paul indicated NO inference that the 7TH SABBATH was abolished at the Cross, or that our Lord Jesus Christ condescended to become our Sabbath. He ascended to the Heavenly Sanctuary where He now 'lives to make intercession...' Heb. 7:25; ch. 8: 1,2. As previously mentioned, the SABBATH DAY originated in Eden as was the institution of MARRIAGE. The 7TH DAY SABBATH was never an issue in the New Testament - in fact there were some 3000 Pharisaic laws as to how one should 'keep' it! I would agree that trying to 'keep' it back then was indeed a burden to God's people! Jesus lovingly addressed it several times; as on the occasion when He invited them to, 'Come to Me...I will give you rest...take me yoke on you...learn from Me...My yoke is easy and My burden is light' -Matt. 11:29. He also said, '...it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath' -Matt. 12:12 (see Mark 3:2; Luke 6:1-6) The primary issues after the Resurrection were those concerning the law of circumcision, ceremonial washings, keeping the festivals, etc. all of which ended at the cross. The laws referred to in Col. 2:14 were the ceremonial laws written by Moses in a book (laws of Moses) and placed in the side of the Ark of the Covenant. (see Deut. 31:24-29). Again, there is NO indication that the LAW OF GOD -THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (which includes the FOURTH) written by God on tablets of stone was abolished at the cross! There is NO indication throughout Scripture which indicate that the 7TH DAY SABBATH pointed forward to the death/sacrifice of Jesus. Indeed, it ALWAYS POINTED BACKWARD TO EDEN - THE MEMORIAL OF HIS CREATIVE WORKS. Rev. 14: 14:6,7 gives a last day call to WORSHIP the God of CREATION...what did the Prophet John see when in vision in Temple in Heaven? Rev. 11:19 What was in it? (see Heb. 9:3,4; Ex. 25:21). To those who refuse to honour the 7TH DAY SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, you are missing out on a wonderful blessing! Yes, I am a Seventh-day Adventist Christian - it is the only Church which has remained faithful to the Protestant Heritage." Any suggestion on how to reply? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14098 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dalvarenga, Adventists say the fourth commandment identifies God. Yet in the Bible, God identifies Himself right before the words of the first commandment in Exodus 20:2-3:
Adventists say God created Sabbath on the seventh day. They talk about the seven days of creation, that the Sabbath was given on the seventh day. Scripture NEVER says this. Creation took SIX days. The seventh day was the day God "ceased". The fourth commandment in Exodus 20 was not pointing people back to creation; it was pointing people to God's CEASING. Adventists have created a false argument based on a subtle twisting of Scripture. The big deal about the seventh day in Genesis 2 was God's CEASING. He rested, or ceased, from all He had done. He did NOT create Sabbath on the seventh day nor give anyone a command to honor a day. He did not created eternal holy time. He Himself CEASED from His work. Adam and Eve were created INTO His rest. Jesus on the cross said, "It Is Finished." He CEASED His work of propitiation and paid once for all the price for human sin. His work was done. We now are ushered into the finished work of God on our behalf when we receive Jesus' sacrifice for us. Adventists say Sabbath is a memorial of creation. Scripture NEVER says this. The wording of Ex 20:8-11 reminds Israel that God did all His work, and He ceased on the seventh day. They are not remembering His creation; they are remembering His finished work, His rest, and they are being made to live out a foreshadowing of His finished work on the cross into which we are born again. In fact, in Deuteronomy 5, the 10 commandments are reiterated before Israel goes into Canaan. In that passage, the fourth commandment doesn't even MENTION creation. It commands Sabbath keeping as Israel's honoring of God for rescuing them from Egypt. No creation is sight. When Adventists say Sabbath is a memorial of creation, they are degrading the Sabbath and the worship of Adventists to focus on the physical world. Creation is not God; it is material and transitory. To say Sabbath is a memorial of creation makes CREATION the focus of Adventists' attention. They honor the created thing instead of the Creator. They honor "holy time", or a sacred creation. They are not honoring God. Paganism honpors and worships creation. Paganism puts a divine spark into creation, into the celestial bodies and the plants and animals on earth. The Adventist argument that Sabbath is a memorial of creation puts Adventists right in that pagan camp. Creation is the big deal they are to remember. Even in the Sabbath-keeping Adventists exalt creation. The Sabbath-afternoon "nature walks", the idea that nature is God's "second book", that we keep the Sabbath by hiking in the wilderness because we're in God's second book...these are pagan notions, not biblical notions. We worship God by honoring Him. We do not remember what He made, nor are we ever commanded to honor His process of creating. We are commanded to worship HIM. The fourth commandment was written to remind Israel of God's CEASING, His finished work on our behalf, and it foretold His finished work on behalf of our redemption. Sabbath is NOT about creation. It's about God's sovereign sufficiency. Israel was to keep Sabbath because they would demonstrate to the pagan nations that they would be more prosperous and successful than any of the pagans because, regardless of what crisis was impending, they were resting in their tents one day in every seven. Whether it was lentil harvest or lambing season, the pagans had to work hard and give everything to please their gods and hope for blessings. Israel, on the other hand, would be more successful, and they would rest one in seven. No one would ever be able to say Israel was successful because they worked harder or better. Everyone would see that Israel was successful because their God worked for them. Sabbath was ALWAYS about God's work on our behalf. It was never about "creation". Sabbath was about entering God's rest, His sufficient, finished work on behalf of His people. I'm horrified at the pagan focus and idolatrous results of Adventist Sabbath theology. It has completely eclipsed God's sovereign provision and made it a pagan, nature-focussed self-indulgent Sabbath. It was never about humans resting; it was always about entering God's rest. Colleen | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks Coleen, I would like to get into the discussion, but I am afraid Dalvarenga is a hit and runner. He could learn a lot if he comes back with more posts. | ||
| Dalvarenga Registered user Username: Dalvarenga Post Number: 79 Registered: 3-2012 |
Colleen thanks for the awesome text. Do I have your permission to post this on the page? Bobalou, I'm actually a former SDA and not a hit and runner  I'm managing a Facebook page that promotes Dale's book "Sabbath in Christ" and I received that comment from a SDA that joined the page. I want to hear your thoughts on this also, please join the conversation. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14101 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dalvarenga, by all means, use this post! Colleen | ||
| Goodday2u Registered user Username: Goodday2u Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2012 |
In the FB comment, the writer refers to the 10 commandments and the Sabbath as not being "abolished." Christ did, however, completely fulfill all the requirements of the law. He not only accepted the death on the cross that we deserve, but he is our propitiation, that is, the complete satisfaction of all the requirements of the law. He is just AND loving. In order for us to be reconciled to a Holy God, he doesn't reduce the requirements of perfect lawkeeping. If we want to place ourselves under the law to be able to stand before a Holy God, we had better keep that law perfectly, which no one is capable of doing. The Isrealites couldn't do it and neither can we. This is why he gave the law to us--it drives us to despair and to acknowledgement of our need of a savior. Christ, however, kept the law perfectly and died on the cross and rose from the dead out of love and mercy for us and also out of his justice. He is the just AND the justifier. When we place our complete trust and belief in his completed work, his righteousness is imputed to us as if we had kept the law perfectly (which God still requires). Our only hope is to be in Christ. He did all the work and deserves all the glory. He fulfilled every requirement of the law (which includes the 10 commandments). We can add nothing to his finished work, because our works are "filthy rags." Any attempts to "keep the Sabbath" to demonstrate being in right standing with God better be done perfectly along with all the rest of the law. When we are in Christ, we are still required to keep the law per se, which can only be accomplished through Christ's imputed righteousness. This is an alien righteousness which is not our own. When God looks at us, he sees Christ--we are "hidden" in Christ. We are no longer under the condemnation of the law--we are dead to the law. When we finally "get it" that Christ has done everything, and we can offer nothing, the only thing left is to be grateful and fall in love with Christ. Tell him that. | ||
| Katarain Registered user Username: Katarain Post Number: 270 Registered: 1-2012 |
The poster says this: "There is NO indication throughout Scripture which indicate that the 7TH DAY SABBATH pointed forward to the death/sacrifice of Jesus. Indeed, it ALWAYS POINTED BACKWARD TO EDEN - THE MEMORIAL OF HIS CREATIVE WORKS." He quoted Colossians 2:14, so I have to wonder why he didn't just read on to Colossians 2:16. There is a clear indication of exactly what he said isn't there. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2005 |
I am so sorry Dal, I was confused. I did go to your site and became perplexed because I saw that you are promoting "Sabbath in Christ". I am on my way to Ohio and probably will not have a whole lot of time to discuss my thoughts. I will leave you with 2Cor 3:7-11 A powerful few verses that refute the writers claim: "Again, there is NO indication that the LAW OF GOD -THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (which includes the FOURTH) written by God on tablets of stone was abolished at the cross!" Listen to these powerful words: 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! Is it any wonder many SDAs don't have high regards for the Apostle Paul? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14103 Registered: 12-2003 |
So true, Bobalou! i agree completely with Goodday2u and Katarain above! Col 2:14 totally puts the lie to the poster's claim that Sabbath never pointed forward to Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2005 |
I have a little time, so I thought I would continue with another point. Jesus in the 5th chapter of Matthew states the following: "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. SDAs will argue that "everything" is not accomplished. Well, if everything hasn't been accomplished then the whole law (Torah 613 laws) are still in effect. This would mean that we should abide by everything down to the smallest letter of the law. We would pay the tithe in produce and animals, wear our yamakas, sacrifice animals, and keep the festivals and new moons,etc. SDAs tell us no,all except the tithe and unclean meat laws plus the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross. Where in the Holy Writ does it tell us this? Jesus told us nothing would change until all was fulfilled. SDAs cannot have it both ways, either we are stuck with ALL the law or Jesus fulfilled ALL the law. It is not a pick and choose proposition. Then we go to the writings of Paul and in Gal 3 we read things like "You started the Christian life by the Holy Spirit. Do you think you are going to become better Christians by your old way of worship?" “You must obey all the Law or you will die.” (all meaning Torah) "Then why do we have the Law? It was given because of sin. It was to be used UNTIL Christ came." "Before it was possible to be saved from the punishment of sin by putting our trust in Christ, we were held under the Law. It was as if we were being kept in prison. We were kept this way UNTIL Christ came. The Law was used to lead us to Christ. It was our teacher, and so we were made right with God by putting our trust in Christ. Now that our faith is in Christ, we do not need the Law to lead us." I would ask of any SDA how they can explain away the scripture given in this post. That coupled with Col 2:16,17 and 2Cor 3:7-11 makes it as clear as a bell that we are not under the 10 commandments or any other part of the law such as the tithing and unclean meat laws. The Holy Spirit is the guide of Christians and we abide by the law of love found in 1Jn 3:22,23 22 We will receive from Him whatever we ask if we obey Him and do what He wants. 23 This is what He said we must do: Put your trust in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love each other. Christ told us to do this. 24 The person who obeys Christ lives by the help of God and God lives in him. We know He lives in us by the Holy Spirit He has given us. | ||
| Dalvarenga Registered user Username: Dalvarenga Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2012 |
Guys, I want to ask you to join me on prayer for Carolyn E., a FB user that visited the Sabbath in Christ page and that just received a copy of the book that I mailed to her. She is a SDA and she is starting to read the book now. Pray that God will remove the scales from her eyes do that she can see the truth. God bless you all. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 763 Registered: 2-2011  |
Dalvarenga~ I will pray for Carolyn E.~ deliverance from the chains of adventism~ And soon she will have the 'Rest' promised in JESUS CHRIST, alone. ~mj~ | ||
| Hannah Registered user Username: Hannah Post Number: 27 Registered: 9-2012 |
I just prayed for her, too, Dalvaenga. May she find true freedom and rest in Jesus. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14139 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praying now for Carolyn, Dalvarenga. And thank you for your ministry! Colleen | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 903 Registered: 1-2007 |
I am also praying for Carolyn. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2893 Registered: 7-2007 |
Dalvarenga; here's a few verses that you could point out concerning the 10 Commandments versus the New Covenant: 1. Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 both identify the 10 Commandments as the covenant given to Israel. 2. Deuteronomy 5:2-3 shows Moses talking to Israel, telling them that the covenant wasn't given to their fathers but to THEM. 3. Hebrews 8:13 says that the old covenant is obsolete. 4. Hebrews 9:15-17 says that the new covenant began when Jesus died because: "for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death" (verse 15) and "a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." (verse 17) Have them read the new covenant [New Testament] starting with Jesus death and see for themselves if the Sabbath is IN the new covenant. All I see is that it doesn't matter if one "keeps" a day or not (Romans 14:5) and that all the various types of Sabbaths were a shadow of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17) Also, you could mention to them if they insist: "but the commandment says REMEMBER!!!" that the Sabbath was given to Israel a few weeks before Sinai at the giving of the manna. (Exodus 16) |
