| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2771 Registered: 7-2007 |
A few days ago, someone posted about demons beating up on them when they were leaving the SDA church - well, thumping on them when they had gone to bed. The person asked if anyone else had had this experience. I was planning to respond, but for the life of me, I cannot find the thread! So I thought I'd respond here.... In my experience, it wasn't so dramatic, but two or three times, when I was beginning to understand that Adventism was false, when I went to read the Bible; it was like my brains were scrambled. I could think about anything else, but I couldn't make the least bit of sense out of the words of the Bible. As soon as a friend (who's a real Christian) prayed for me though, the supernatural interference evaporated. | ||
| Trans4mer Registered user Username: Trans4mer Post Number: 192 Registered: 9-2011  |
Asurprise, having been an SDA, where you hear a lot about how hard Satan is working and how careful one must be not make a miss-step I think all that you would need is pretty good memory and imagination. 'Real Christians' know better than that crap and that we have a God, a Savior and ministering spirits on our side. I've had some 'temblors' but dismissed them with another distraction. For a good laugh see "sidewalk surfer" on Urban Dictionary (urbandictionary.com) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13974 Registered: 12-2003  |
We are never told in Scripture to worry about or look for demons or evil spirits. Scripture does say they are real, and the Lord's Prayer even has a "spiritual warfare" line in it: "Deliver us from evil," or some translations say, "Deliver us from the evil one". This is not idle space-filler. Jesus told His people that part of their appropriate prayers to their Father includes asking Him to deliver them from evil. And there is one of the important aspects of that prayer: He does not ever tell us to do battle with evil; He asks us to trust Him and ask our Father to protect us and deliver us. Jesus directly commanded evil spirits to leave people. The apostles commanded in the name of Jesus. But we are never supposed to fear the devil. He is a defeated foe. Our spiritual armor (Eph, 6:10-18) is all defensive—except for the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God. The word is our only offensive weapon. That being said, it does become increasingly clear, the farther from Adventism we get, that EGW had a real source of her visions. She and the founders established an intricate theology that interconnects and makes a complete, unified whole. It is convoluted and many-layered, but it holds together. Only an intelligent mind could have come up with something like that...and it wasn't EGW or the rest of the founders who saw the system as a whole. Moreover, it is eerily similar to Mormonism in many ways...especially in the pre-history scenarios that supposedly birthed the great controversy. Furthermore, the clever but persistent way she wrote about the Lord Jesus and left all her followers a legacy of a weak Jesus who limits his divine attributes and who could have failed but managed to set a great example for how to avoid sin...all that is unbiblical. She created a false Jesus. Satan is at the core of false gospels. And he makes a big cloud of dust when anyone begins to question and leave a false gospel. The Adventist emphasis on the dangers of evil spirits is an example of their "hide in plain sight" survival. They have made all their members fearful and wary of the devil, when in reality the Lord Jesus has already disarmed him (Col 2:14-15). Their "fear-mongering" about evil only succeeds in making them vulnerable to real evil. And yes, there is spiritual opposition when people begin to see the deception of Adventism, but that opposition is nothing compared to the surpassing glory and greatness of the Lord Jesus, His eternal power, and His finished work on our behalf. And we need to know the devil is real; if we rationalize away that piece of reality, we remain vulnerable to it. We are safe in the One who has already written "Defeated" over the abyss...and we rest in Him with our eyes wide open! Colleen | ||
| Trans4mer Registered user Username: Trans4mer Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2011 |
Thanks Colleen (speaking for myself here) for the clarification. course corrected. Since leaving that counterfeit mentality, I've considered myself to be my worst possibly enemy and after that, evil itself. This is a copy and paster for me. Charles | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2772 Registered: 7-2007 |
Actually I wasn't scared. I was more annoyed than anything. I recognized though that it was definitely supernatural. I wasn't saved yet, so praying did me no good. Then when a real Christian prayed, the "fog" vanished immediately! The reason I was mad was because a demon was doing something to my mind to keep me from "getting" the slightest thing out the verses I was reading and I hated being controlled that way. | ||
| Katarain Registered user Username: Katarain Post Number: 252 Registered: 1-2012 |
Oh, there's power in the name of Jesus, even for an unsaved person. "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'" -Matthew 7:22 | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2012 |
My story is true. Just like on Dragnet, just the facts. For well.over 15 years I got up every Sunday morning and went.to church. Finely after around 12 years my born and raised life long SDA mother confronted me and I told her yes, I was going to church. IShe asked me where and when I told her what church she asked if I was a member. I told her no, I wasn't. She made a comment that if I was going to attend a Sunday church at least I picked out one of the more decent demoninations. Then for the next several years about once a month or so she'd ask me if I was a member of that Sunday church. I would say no and all was fine because I still was gong with her each Saturday to the SDA so she held out.hope for me. Finily after many years of this she one day asked me if I was a member and I said Yes. I truly believe my.mom was overcome by an evil spirit when she heard what I had said. Her voice changed, she looked at.me and screamed at me about no Sunday keeper would ever be part of her family and I could pack my things and get out. I.lived next door to my parents in a house they owned. I was stunned and overcome. I left and went home. The.next day I asked my dad about the ordeal and he told me to forget about my moms reaction to her crazy religion and to pray and.live as God guilds me. BTW, my dad also was a.born and raised SDA but as an adult just tolerated it to.humor my mother. My mom shunned me for at least two weeks after that. Then finely, because she relied on.me to meet.her needs she had no choice but to ask me for a ride and that was a sort.of truce. Funny thing is, when my mom got alzaheimers not.one person from the SDA church where she'd attended for many years and had given that church oodles of money came to see her. But, each week someone from the Lutheran church I went To came to see her. I called and asked the.SDA minister if he would come.out and annoint her and pray over her while she was dying and he.told.me no, he did not do that and I could come to his office and he would explain why. I called the.Lutheran pastor and he came.out. So, yes, SDA'ism is overcome with evil.spirits. | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 155 Registered: 4-2012 |
My story is true. Just like on Dragnet, just the facts. For well.over 15 years I got up every Sunday morning and went.to church. Finely after around 12 years my born and raised life long SDA mother confronted me and I told her yes, I was going to church. IShe asked me where and when I told her what church she asked if I was a member. I told her no, I wasn't. She made a comment that if I was going to attend a Sunday church at least I picked out one of the more decent demoninations. Then for the next several years about once a month or so she'd ask me if I was a member of that Sunday church. I would say no and all was fine because I still was gong with her each Saturday to the SDA so she held out.hope for me. Finily after many years of this she one day asked me if I was a member and I said Yes. I truly believe my.mom was overcome by an evil spirit when she heard what I had said. Her voice changed, she looked at.me and screamed at me about no Sunday keeper would ever be part of her family and I could pack my things and get out. I.lived next door to my parents in a house they owned. I was stunned and overcome. I left and went home. The.next day I asked my dad about the ordeal and he told me to forget about my moms reaction to her crazy religion and to pray and.live as God guilds me. BTW, my dad also was a.born and raised SDA but as an adult just tolerated it to.humor my mother. My mom shunned me for at least two weeks after that. Then finely, because she relied on.me to meet.her needs she had no choice but to ask me for a ride and that was a sort.of truce. Funny thing is, when my mom got alzaheimers not.one person from the SDA church where she'd attended for many years and had given that church oodles of money came to see her. But, each week someone from the Lutheran church I went To came to see her. I called and asked the.SDA minister if he would come.out and annoint her and pray over her while she was dying and he.told.me no, he did not do that and I could come to his office and he would explain why. I called the.Lutheran pastor and he came.out. So, yes, SDA'ism is overcome with evil.spirits. | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2012 |
I'm sorry the above posted twice. I did not do that intentionally. Why are SDA's so loony about what demonination a person has a church.membership in? They go ape over it. | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 243 Registered: 5-2011  |
SDAs are stuck on the idea that they are "ultimate Christianity" and the one true church. I was raised SDA, and I always had the idea that the other Christians were all confused about the Bible and couldn't be as good as I felt SDAs were. I had to learn that other denominations have many good Christians in them, many people who study the Bible a lot, and do a lot of philantropy. Leaving Adventism also helped me to get off my high horse. Adventism taught me spiritual arrogance. I had to let go of all that. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1736 Registered: 7-2003  |
I think there are a number of elements at work in how SDAs react to others leaving. Certainly, the demonic component cannot be discounted for one moment. I totally believe there is a spirit of Adventism and by "spirit" I mean fallen angel or angels. So you have a spiritual reaction when darkness encounters light. Beyond that influence I think there are commonly held beliefs that cause emotional reactions as well. So in Adventism there is typically a mixing of salvation by faith and salvation by works. On the works side, SDAs tend to believe deep down that you can be saved by living up to what you know to the best of your ability. So while SDAs would except that nominal Christians out in Babylon may be saved, they will be saved in their ignorance. In other words, because those Christians don't know any better, God will over look their errors due to their ignorance. However when a SDA leaves the group, they have been exposed to "Truth" with a capital "T" so they have no excuse. They are now not even trying to live up to the "Truth" they have been shown in Adventism so they can't claim ignorance. Since this is a willful rejection of "Truth" they must be lost. So SDAs recoil in horror. I think many SDAs also attempt to simultaneously hold a diametrically opposed idea in their head, salvation by faith. Because every Adventist realizes that they don't consistently live up to the SDA "Truth" that they've been given, they hope that their faith will make up the rest. So in a sense, they believe in salvation by faith, but not necessarily salvation by faith in Jesus. It's really more about salvation by faith in Adventist "Truth". For many, it's not necessarily all important that you consistently live it, as long as you BELIEVE it. That's why many SDAs are kind of okay with the relative that doesn't go to church anymore and doesn't live like an Adventist, but who, when pushed, will concede that Adventism is the closest thing to truth and they know they need to get their act together at some point. That's kind of okay as long as they don't reject the "Truth". When a SDA leaves and rejects Adventism they have given up their faith in SDA Truth. It doesn't really matter that they have professed a deep and profound faith in Jesus Christ. As far as SDAs are concerned they are lost because their faith is no longer in SDA "Truth", therefore their faith is misplaced. In the SDA mind, the person living a worldly sinful life but who still believes in some sense in Adventism is far better off than the professed Christ follower who had rejected Adventism. All this goes to show that the true object of faith and worship in Adventism is not Jesus. Chris | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 633 Registered: 2-2011  |
Chris~ Your post is to the "letter" what my precious Mother believed to her dying day~ I cannot tell you how profoundly this as affected me today~ It has reminded me of the last time I saw her and spoke to her several days before she died~ she was tormented by FEAR, not only for herself, but for her children and grandchildren, who had rejected the adventist "Truth" ~ even though all of us were "born-again of the HOLY SPIRIT" Christians~ to her mind, we were now a part of "Babylon" and were "Lost"~ Her "FEAR", even after being a "life-long" from birth, adventist, was assurance of salvation~ she could not say with certainty that she was "SAVED"~ she could only have the adventist "hope", which is NO hope, at all~ It breaks my heart~ my consolation, is that GOD knows each person's heart~ HE is gracious and merciful~ ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2775 Registered: 7-2007 |
Mj; I agree! A dying Adventist has no assurance. It grieves my heart too. I was talking to an Adventist friend who came along with my relatives to visit, and when I asked her if she knew she was saved, she said yes; but when I pinned her down on it - asking what would happen if she didn't keep on "obeying the commandments," she said she'd be lost. So there it was. She wasn't trusting in Jesus finished work because she was depending on herself to keep on "obeying." I pointed that out to her, but it was as if she was determined to cling to Adventism with an iron grasp. To her mind, Adventism was true and I wasn't going to be able to talk her out of it. I pray that God intervenes in her life. As I write this, I'm listening to one of my SDA relatives playing Christian hymns on the piano. Even that grieves me, because they have no clue what those hymns are really saying. (For example, they might play "Blessed Assurance" but have no assurance, because they aren't saved.)  | ||
| Lyrical Registered user Username: Lyrical Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2012 |
Chris, Thank you for writing on this topic so coherently. I resonated with all you described. MJ, The fear you mentioned in your mother is just heartbreaking and also pervasive amongst Adventists. It's a horrific way to live... and die. My husband has worked with hundreds of elderly Adventists and many years ago we came to the conclusion (long before we knew the real Truth and left Adventism) that one of the reasons SDAs live so long is due to FEAR. He was present during the last few weeks of many of their lives and NONE of them were at peace. They were terrified of death because they had no assurance of salvation. They'd very often pull through some major medical crisis (or several) for no apparent reason. He saw that it was the power of the mind and will to keep on living so they could continue to avoid/deny their fear and not have to face actual death. And we attribute SDAs long life to a "healthy" diet. With all the processed foods, canned mushroom soup, sugar, sodium, and fat that are consumed on a regular basis in the average SDA diet, it's very hard to imagine that a longer life span is actually due to a good diet (of course the overall lack of smoking is a HUGE factor, but would be for any non-smoker). Seriously... I think there's something to the idea that lack of assurance in salvation and fear of death is a huge factor in a longer life span. (Apparently the National Geographic study wasn't informed about that factor!) And SDAs applaud themselves for living longer... From what I've seen, those last few years are no picnic as they wait for the "I hope I'm saved" ending. Breaks my heart... Asurprise, Praying for you and your family as you spend time together. | ||
| Eternal_joy Registered user Username: Eternal_joy Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2012 |
Right when I was really starting to "get it" about Adventism, a week before I was saved, all that week I felt like something in the very core of my being was being ripped out. Something very dark and very deep. This was a literal feeling. I could feel the spiritual warfare all around me and inside of me. It sounds a little crazy when I articulate this out loud, but this is literally what I felt. It was very real. There were strong forces at work that were trying desperately to keep me from leaving. But God is so much stronger and He won! Thank you Jesus! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 635 Registered: 2-2011 |
Eternal_joy~ Praise GOD for your deliverance from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of Light!!! ~mj~ | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 159 Registered: 4-2012 |
Chris, I have oodles of former in-laws who are JW. Now that group has the lingo down. The say things like "Is she on the truth?" Or, "How long has he been in the truth?" when referring to ,someone. And, mj I truly understand your emotions about your mother. It is heartbreaking and frustrating at the same time. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2778 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome to the forum, Eternal_joy!  Lyrical; I appreciate your prayers! Thanks! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9828 Registered: 3-2004  |
Eternal_joy, welcome to FAF. I am so glad you are here. Our Awesome God brought you here. God worked a looooong time at bringing me out of adventism. When I finally followed Jesus out of it, I am very fortunate I had no problem picking up and leaving. God is so good and very awesome. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8012 Registered: 9-2006  |
Lyrical, did you ever stop to think that the longer life span in SDA's might be due to Gods mercy in his wish that no one should perish? River |
