| Author | Message | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 983 Registered: 3-2009 |
In spite of what the organization might say, the rank and file is well trained to believe that EGW is the same as the Bible. In a FB page, someone asked if it was good that the comments of EGW be put alongside the Bible text (referring to the Remnant Study Bible.) I replied that it was not, and there are a few replies to my comment. One of the replies besides several quotations of EGW herself about how she would be doubted in the last days by those who would be lost, there is he following comment which clearly shows what the SDA believe about EGW:
Hec | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8124 Registered: 3-2004  |
If you will go to CARM and read the comments there you will quickly see which are sda and one in particular that upholds egw like that. All I can do is pray for them. Diana L | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 367 Registered: 4-2007 |
In my experience most Adventist’s ‘belief’ in Ellen is an ignorantly accepted concept (She is THE SOP!!), their exposure consists mainly of quotations in the SS Quarterly, which they do not question. However, in the last small (maybe 45 members) church I attended there were three angry Ellen thumpers who alienated everyone with their unstable personalities and antagonistic criticisms, they have all stopped attending. Is it ‘The chicken or the egg’? Does the study of Ellen create dysfunctional people or are dysfunctional people drawn to Ellenology? | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 676 Registered: 12-2007 |
jonvil: "Does the study of Ellen create dysfunctional people or are dysfunctional people drawn to Ellenology? " I say BOTH! | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2005 |
I think Ellen/Adventism creates dysfunctional people, because I would think, that fewer dysfunctional people are really exposed to this system. Thankfully, most people don't know of Adventism or Ellen, and the number of people that are brought into the church each year, at least in North America, is really pretty small. So, I think the dysfunction, for the most part, comes from within, from years of exposure and the availabily of EGW's writings. Carol | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6157 Registered: 9-2006  |
I'm going with Carol on it. Too much evidence not too. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8127 Registered: 3-2004 |
I came from a very dysfunctional family. When I got into my 12 step program I did not know or even think about what it would do with my beliefs of adventism. When I left adventism for good, it was then I saw that the 12 steps had cleared my brain of the adventist cobwebs and I accepted Jesus Christ immediately, when He called me. I was dysfunctional b/c of my beliefs and my family background. Today my life is an open book to God and my friends and I have no more secrets. Thank you awesome God. Diana L ps Ellen's writings on sex helped ruin my marriage along with the attitudes I acquired from my Mom. When I realized, in my 12 step program that I am responsible for my attitudes and can no longer blame my Mom, I was thankful that now I could get rid of them. God has changed by attitude now and I am for ever grateful. (Message edited by Flyinglady on April 23, 2010) | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 678 Registered: 12-2007 |
I said "both" from personal experience.... I was not born into Adventism, but brought in by marrying my husband who was raised SDA... (we married as teens just out of high school)I learned and accepted and thus became dysfunctional because of accepting the errors as "truth" through exposure. I had been raised in a loving home where I was taught moral values of right and wrong but we did not attend any church. I always "believed" in God even though I did not really "know" Him on a personal level. We were taught to treat others like we wanted to be treated and to do those things that were right, simply because they were right. I was probably better off then.. as after accepting the "truths" of Adventism, the doing of right went from being a just because it is right thing to a feeling of making CONSCIOUS DECISIONS of right and wrong and the fear of the wrath of God if I did NOT do those things that were right. There are some persons and even whole families that I personally have known who are SDA because of their willingness to accept ANY "gospel" at least in part because of their (how do I say this kindly?) limited intelligence.... bordering on and including some degree of mental illness. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 679 Registered: 12-2007 |
I hope that didnt sound really judgmental or mean.... but I think it is maybe easy for the SDA to bring in those with limited reasoning ability because they tend to accept what they are told without questioning. I realize there are also many highly educated people in Adventism, doctors, attorneys, teachers, etc etc... so I am not saying that anyone who believes Adventism is somehow not mentally all there..... but it is just a fact in some of the smaller churches (that I have attended) over the years that SDA seems to have a disporportinate (sp) percentage of members with mental issues. Sorry, I just dont know of any "nice" way of saying it. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 368 Registered: 4-2007 |
Skeeter (why does your name give me an itch?) I have to agree, I've noticed a 'dullness' when I've attempted to discuss issues pertaining to the current political/economical/Muslim... disaster. Most of these folks just don't think for themselves and are unable to connect the dots. Could it be that a lack or avoidance (of which I was guilty) of critical thinking result in an unquestioning submission to 'authority'? Could this be a prerequisite to being a 'good' Adventist (or JW or Mormon or...)? John | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11159 Registered: 12-2003  |
I actually think Adventism appeals to people with addictive or abusive "issues". A local former Adventist whose husband, also a former, is a well-known physician, told me that several years ago her brother, a psychologist who is, as far as I know, a non-practicing SDA and perhaps is on the agnostic side, conducted a personal study. He gave some sort of standard personality inventory to a group of Adventists (I don't know how he selected his study group...). At any rate, they consistently yielded results which looked like classic alcoholic personalities. Adventism attracts people with "issues" and also creates them, I am convinced. Colleen | ||
| Blessed Registered user Username: Blessed Post Number: 377 Registered: 1-2007 |
Amen Colleen | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 654 Registered: 11-2007 |
I have a lot of sda friends from the last church I attended. That church has always been very liberal in their adventist beliefs. Most of them believe that egw was an inspired writer...FOR HER DAY but that most of it doesn't apply to us today. That is their way of ignoring her and her writings. I was in that sda church for over 15 years and I know of no one, in all that time, who has read any of her stuff. Still, I think this view is a very dangerous one because it keeps them from seeing her for who she really was. They put her on the back of the bus instead of throwing her under it and moving on. Surfy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2404 Registered: 8-2004  |
Yes, it is also dangerous because it means that if an 'inspired writer' is just 'inspired for his/her day' then what about the inspired Bible? How much of it was inspired, but 'just for its day?' Now there's a slippery slope! (Message edited by helovesme2 on April 24, 2010) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11166 Registered: 12-2003 |
Mary, great point! Colleen | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi Skeeter, It sounds like we have a similar background story. I wasn't raised SDA either, and came from what sounds like much the same type of home life. After a few crazy years in the very late 60's and early 70's, my best friend and I were looking for a more spiritual path, wanting to know and find God. My friend, Pam, was involved in a near fatal car accident. The ER doctor on duty that night was an Adventist, they became friends, she became an Adventist, and in a few months or so, I joined too. This was 1976. I met my husband at church after just a few months as an SDA, he started working for the church as a teacher, and off we went. He was a several generation Adventist, well grounded in "the truth". I just condensed about 3 years or so in a couple of sentences! I was really drinking in all the new knowledge I had from this amazing woman/prophet who wrote all these books with a third grade education!!!! Thankfully, nowadays people have more tools, especially the internet, to check things out!!! I was so naive concerning spiritual things. I'm sure that I had never even heard the word "cult", or imagined that people associated with a church would be dishonest in any way. I had never heard of Seventh day Adventists either. It was all new. Thankfully, because of my previous life, I didn't become as unbalanced as some people can become. But, when we wanted to really get our spiritual lives together, it always involved diet, spending that "thoughtful" hour a day (of course it had to be early in the morning, somehow it didn't seem to count , otherwise). Well, these exercises in works based spiritually never lasted long of course, and I would go back to feeling guilty, not good enough, or just a plain failure. Ahhh, the joys of Adventism! I do agree with all the other comments, as well. I had never encountered so many weird, dysfunctional folks. I began to wonder why, or even if, the lifers noticed this, or just thought it was normal in all churches. That seems to be the new response to some of the critiques of Adventism, at least with some I know. Now, it's "well, it's like that in all the churches". How would they even know? How many SDA's have ever stepped foot in a Sunday church, much less spent any time, on a regular enough basis, to know anything about what it's like in other denominations. But that's Adventism...they know everything about everything. It's so mind boggling because they know so very little about the world in general. So smug and secure in their tiny bubble. | ||
| Freedom55 Registered user Username: Freedom55 Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2008 |
From my experience, I have found that those who focus primarily on EGW tend to become unbalanced and downright dysfunctional. I even made the statement to my wife a few years ago that too much Ellen White makes people crazy! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2089 Registered: 5-2007  |
Freedom55, You just made a good observation that parallels my own experiences. When I left the Adventist church to simply 'join the world of sin' nobody, including family, ever asked me why I had done what I did or encourage me to return to the church or the Lord. But, when my life was turned around and I joined a 'Sunday Church' instead of returning to the Adventist church where much of my extended family and my membership was located, I was asked by an aunt of mine why I wasn't where she thought I belonged. Now, my aunt had not darkened the doors of the Adventist church herself and was leading a very worldly life, but she became enraged with my response to her question: I simply said that; "I believed Ellen White was a false prophet". Her reaction to my answer shocked me, partly because she was one of the favorite people in my life. Her unspoken message seemed to be that we could live any way we wanted to, but never never attack 'the prophet'. She never attacked my dad for 'smoking, drinking and whoring around'. She never was critical of her other brothers including the youngest who had adopted Shinto beliefs. But, attacking Ellen was abviously a 'mortal sin' to her. Fearless Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11193 Registered: 12-2003 |
So, so true, Freedom and Phil. Here's an excerpt from an email exchange I had over the past couple of days with an Adventist. First I'll post my response to her, then her response to my response:
Her response back:
There's just nowhere to go with this...except to make general statements here: We are not judged on the basis of our knowledge. WWJD is not the biblical mandate for our decisions and behaviors. The Bible never advocates "learning" from evil people. The differences between "Christian" religions is not "interpretation". First, true Christianity is not a "religion" and is consistent for the past 2,000 years. Second, Adventism is not Christian in the biblical sense. Third, the difference between Adventism and Christianity is the nature of and identity of God and the means of salvation: new birth or perfect obedience. The fact that people do not see that they are wrong does not make them right. Denial and deception blind people, and the Lord Jesus removes the blinders. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1053 Registered: 10-2008 |
So sad, Colleen. All you can do is share the gospel - and you did - very clearly I might add. You are right, only the Lord Jesus removes the blinders. The statement this woman made, "God will judge us based on our knowledge" is so sad, but so stuck in the minds of Adventists. I shared with a never-been SDA this underlying "knowledge" theme in Adventism and that Adventists believe that people are judged by the "light they are given". This never-been SDA said, "But that is not Biblical. The Bible teaches that knowledge puffs up!" Hmmmmmm .... Keri | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6182 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: So we're not purposefully believing anything that we think is a lie, we honestly believe our different doctrines. The question is, does believing and teaching wrong doctrine denote innocence because we honestly believe what we are teaching? This person obviously thinks so. Is any religion ok just as long as we are earnestly religious? Does earnestness automatically free us from reaping the result of wrong doctrine? The Muslim is earnest in his beliefs, the Hindu is earnest in his beliefs, the Morman, Jehovahs Witness, New Ager, Atheist, the Christian is earnest in his beliefs. But does that free any of us wrong beliefs, and acting upon that belief? What I mean is, does our earnestness free any of us from reaping the results of wrong beliefs and acting upon that belief? Or will we reap, either in this life or the life to come? As far back as two years ago, many people right here on this forum was obvious in their belief that earnestness denoted innocence. ‘Oh, my Adventist bretheren are Christian, just deceived Christians.’ So somehow, because of this they will not have to reap the results of it, because they are earnest in their mistakenness. If I have a child, and I warn him the stove is hot, if he touches it will it still burn his finger? Obviously he doesn’t believe it will, or he wouldn’t touch it. Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Is this true or false? Is the parable of the sower fact? Or does it not pertain to those who are in earnest? Is misinterpretation of the word going to absolve us from reaping what is sown in our hearts wrongly? Any of us? Is disbelief or neglect of Gods word going to absolve us too innocence both here and in the life to come? Or will we reap what Gods word says is contrary to us? River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11194 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, you are absolutely correct. Sincere wrong beliefs do not make us innocent. Sincerity does not equal innocence. We still reap the consequences of whatever we believe. If we believe a false Jesus, we are not believing unto salvation--to mildly paraphrase Paul Carden. Colleen | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 817 Registered: 2-2008  |
ha! I hadn't thought about this before... the fact that we are supposedly "held responsible for what we believe" gives an adventist an excuse to believe whatever because then they are not held to the standard of the Bible... but to the standard of what they believe. wow... vivian p.s. heading off to FB to update my status!  | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1534 Registered: 11-2007  |
I can remember being taught in SDA school and through EGW that heathens who did not know Jesus would be saved if they lived a good life. God will only judge them on what they knew. Then in the next lesson we would learn that other Christians who believed in Jesus but did not accept the 10C and worship on Saturday could not be held innocent no matter how sincere their belief was. Putting these two teachings together - that you can be saved without Jesus, yet lost with Him - is to me very antichrist. For an SDA to want other Christians to give them this leniency they are not willing to give in turn is ironic to me. Although most SDAs I know in person are not willing to come out and SAY that other Christians are lost for not keeping the Sabbath - their theology teaches it just the same. Sondra | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11198 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sondra, I never thought of that—that the SDA practice of teaching heathens can be saved without Jesus (if they're sincere) but Christians can be lost with Jesus if they don't accept the Sabbath is antichrist. But you're absolutely right. The fives videos (I know they're on Netflix) called "More Than Dreams" that tell the story of Muslims who saw Jesus in dreams and became ardent Christ-followers has convinced me absolutely that God doesn't need for people to "hear" the name of Jesus from another human—necessarily. God reveals Himself to people, and we can trust Him with those who've "never heard of Jesus". When Jesus said that the way to enter the kingdom of heaven is to be born again, He spoke the bottom-line truth. We can trust that He Himself will bring that new birth about in the lives of those who will be saved, whether or not they initially know the name of Jesus. God is bigger than our human limitations. Colleen | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1536 Registered: 11-2007 |
Amen!!! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8147 Registered: 3-2004 |
Another AMEN!!!!! Diana L |
