| Author |
Message |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 695
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:20 pm: |     |
Welcome Pauline :-)
Francie |
Indy4now
Registered user
Username: Indy4now
Post Number: 816
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 4:03 am: | |
Hi Pauline! Welcome!
Colleen, I've heard this same argument from my friend (who is not SDA or former, but is part of the Hebrew Roots Movement).  I agree with Skeeter that if you believe Jesus is the Christ... then the NT is scripture. You can't say that Jesus is the Messiah and then deny that NT is scripture.
vivian |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 8138
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 7:18 am: | |
Hi Pauline, Welcome to FAF. When you are ready, tell us about your journey with Jesus.
Diana l |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1961
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 8:29 am: | |
Today's Gem
quote:The purpose of theology is doxology.
--Sam Storms
Ultimately, all biblical theology leads to a greater doxology. This understanding equips us to more easily decipher truth from error. It's all about Him!
Dennis Fischer |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11180
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 12:09 pm: | |
Welcome, Paulineprimacy! So glad you've joined us. There is suddenly a seeming plethora of new SDA study Bibles. The Andrews Study Bible is slated to be released this summer, coinciding, supposedly, with General Conference...
They really are making an increasing effort to teach and bolster their unique beliefs.
Colleen |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 993
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 1:17 pm: | |
Ummmmm. I thought that the Remnant Bible was the Andrews Bible. Are they different?
Hec |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11185
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 9:52 pm: | |
No, they're different. The Andrews Study Bible will resemble the format of the NIV Study Bible and will feature "scholarly" notes with historical, linguistic, and geological insights into the words of the texts. The notes will be written by SDA scholars with special attention paid to the passages that support the distinctive SDA doctrines.
The Remnant Study Bible has EGW notes in it--the Andrews Study Bible is "scholarly".
Colleen |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 2:29 pm: | |
Recently asked a Hebrew Roots Teacher if he believed in the NT since he did not quote from it anywhere on his website. He claims to believe in the atoning work of Jesus, yet this is his answer about the NT. It's not just EGW that motivates this - but loyalty to the authority of the Law over the authority of God Himself in Jesus Christ.
quote:And yes, of course I accept the instruction of His sent ones/but "ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (or righteous living before God) that the man/woman of God may be complete (whole, victorious) thoroughly equipped for every good work!" 2 Timothy 4:16 This is referring to the Torah and the Prophets and the Writings, there were no 'New Testament' then! These were just letters just as I am writing you a letter right now, those epistles have became in the minds of many more weighty than the written Torah and the Prophets which teach us of Yeshua and Who He really is; hence this is where Christianity has seriously erred!
Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses YHVH/God will confirm a thing! Many take the words of Paul, without weighing it against the Torah and the Prophets (two witnesses represented by Moses and Elijah who visited Yeshua shortly before His Corban/Sacrifice), taking them totally out of context to their own destruction just as Peter warned; using it to blatantly disobey and rebel against God's Eternal Commandments which were given first to Israel, God's first witness in the world until a Way was made for the Gentiles to come in and be grafted into Israel's Covenant renewed by the Blood of Yeshua!
Even though Jesus and the teachings to the Apostles through the Holy Spirit were greater and fuller revelation (the most mankind has ever been given) - they are not to be respected as the final authority. We have to look to Moses for that. Until you can get people to see the primacy and supreme authority of Jesus and the Spirit - the veil remains. |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 995
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 4:31 pm: | |
So the Andrews Bible is more dangerous than EGW one because of the "scholarly" bent. That will be good competition. I wonder which one will sell more.
Hec |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2010 - 8:47 am: | |
The following sobering quote was recently displayed outside a church in my community:
"Eternity is a long time to be wrong!"
Dennis Fischer |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 646
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 30, 2010 - 11:42 am: | |
But this Bible goes to eleven... |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1244
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 11:30 am: | |
Sondra, maybe you could point out to the Hebrew Roots teacher Hebrews 1:1,2 "God, Who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."
So Jesus supercedes Moses.
Ellen White even superimposed herself in the place of "Son" in one of her writings. I went to the official Ellen G. White estates website where you can type in words and find where she wrote them. I typed in "these days testimony spirit" and I got several responses. One of them had that quote and I clicked on the word "Cached." It took me right to the place where she wrote it and those words were highlighted on the page. I scrolled most of the way down until I found all the words together and found it. I'll copy and paste it here.
quote:
Mrs. White adds:
“In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the Testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue.”—Testimonies for the Church, vol. 4, pp. 147, 148.
Notice how she put HERSELF "the testimonies of His Spirit" right smack dab where the Bible puts "the Son." |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 705
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 4:17 pm: | |
"Notice how she put HERSELF "the testimonies of His Spirit" right smack dab where the Bible puts "the Son."
BLASPHEMY ! May God rebuke her :-( |
Paulineprimacy
Registered user
Username: Paulineprimacy
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2010
| | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 5:45 pm: | |
Hi everyone. Thanks for the multiple welcomes. In my zeal to make my pet theological point, I took the name "Pauline primacy", no genderism intended.
On the subject of what part of Scripture is inspired, I stand firmly with the position of 2Timothy 3:16. My thanks to the contributor who a few days ago sited 2Peter 3:16 as evidence that "scripture" certainly included Paul's writings.
While I don't believe in degrees of inspiration in Scripture, my journey out of SDAism led me to a conlusion about the comparable weight of authority we should give to certain sections of the Bible. I have never heard it discussed and I wonder if other ex-SDAs, or any Christians share the same view? It goes something like this:
Within the Bible, that with was written later has the authority to interpret earlier authors. That which is given as clear, straight and practical (epistles) must be understood and faithfully applied to our evangelism and discipleship BEFORE delving into sections more symbolic, mysterious and speculative in interpretation (prophetic books).
Some early American Bible-based movements, I believe, obviously had their scriptural progression priorities out-of-order, don't you think? Thus leading to heretical presumptions about the role of prophecy and prophets, and never gaining the freedom of the true life in the Spirit.
What-do-ya-think? |
Paulineprimacy
Registered user
Username: Paulineprimacy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2010
| | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 5:51 pm: | |
P.S. You can still call me Pauline. |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 7:40 am: | |
Agree - backwards hermeneutics leads to really bad conclusions. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11197
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:56 pm: | |
I've also pondered this subject, "Pauline". Two facts seems significant to me: the apostles had only the OT and the witness of Jesus. That's the first fact. The second one is the sermon content of the apostolic sermons Acts records.
First, I believe that the NT witness of Jesus tells us how the OT shadows were fulfilled. From our position in history, we have to understand the OT in the light of the NT. For sure prophecy isn't the place to begin in evangelism...as a rule, anyway.
Second when Paul preached to Gentiles, he preached Jesus and the sovereign faithfulness of the one true God (Acts 17 for instance). He certainly did not pique their interest with prophetic speculation.
I agree with your conclusion...I would add that teaching OT history and Messianic prophecies can often be very helpful in showing that Jesus wasn't some recent "flash in the pan" but that He fulfilled the eternal plan of God. There is an older (early 80's) video called "Ee–Taow" (meaning "it is the truth") produced by (I think) New Tribes Missions telling the story of Rob Zook and his wife who went in the 70s (?) to a completely remote, unreached tribe in New Guinea.
The Zooks had no mission experience but had to figure out how to share the gospel with people who had absolutely no conception of the world in general. After spending months (can't remember how long) learning the language and the customs of the tribe, they began to teach the Bible. They began by showing them a map of the world, showing them New Guinea and America (their respective homelands), and then showing them Israel. They explained that God's book came to them from people who lived in that part of the world.
Then they began teaching the Genesis stories: creation, flood, call of Abraham, sacrifice of Isaac, etc. After three months of teaching the OT they were ready to teach about Jesus, and because they knew the OT stories by then, when it came time for Jesus to die, they connected that with the sacrifice of Isaac and the sacrifices of the lambs.
At any rate, after months of teaching, role-playing, etc., they told the story of the cross and the resurrection, and that whole tribe accepted Jesus and broke into two hours of non-stop dancing and rejoicing. They knew they were sinners, that Jesus had died for them, and that they were forgiven.
It is a most amazing story--and I never get over the fact that in order to tell this tribe the story of Jesus, those missionaries had to begin with the beginning of all things and give them some history.
Colleen |
Paulineprimacy
Registered user
Username: Paulineprimacy
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 7:49 pm: | |
That's a great example of Scripture well handled, with the intent of clearly presenting the message of Christ as the culmination and fulfillment of everything preceding His redemptive work.
I just suspect that too many Bible believers get so immersed in OT perspective by the sheer volume of its content that alot more attention needs to be given to the epistles to set our minds and spirits to the true persective of who we are now in Christ -- all the more reason for us to be living epistles.
An aspect of how this plays out in the lives of Adventists is that the church spends all its time teaching, and keeping its members preoccupied with, its denominational distictives. The result is members who only pay attention to the externals -- keeing the Sabbath, dietary rules and believing you know things future. These distract from the fruits of the Spirit, true growing in maturity in Christ. He is faithful as long as we are in Him, our true Sabbath rest. |
