| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2010 |
Just watched the video testimony of the WWCG. Wow...I don't even know what to say in response! An amazing story! Is it a pipe dream to think formers could somehow tap into the WWCG's media ministry, as well as their desire to expose false gospels, in order to produce something exposing the SDA doctrine? Do the WWCG even know anything about SDAs? It would seem most of Christendom is fooled by the denomination but you would think the WWCG would see through it after what they have experienced. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2005 |
Free2dance, It is an amazing DVD. So well done. I'm sure some WWCG folks know of Adventists. Our former landlord was a former WWCG member. Needless to say, she was glad to be done with that. We were still Adventists, my husband more so than me, so we never discussed things too much. I sure would like to now, but sadly, she has since passed away. That DVD brings me to tears every time I see it. The thoughts and feelings of the people on there is so powerful. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 607 Registered: 12-2007 |
Is it availabel to watch on youtube also ? I would really like to see it. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1923 Registered: 4-2000  |
The new name of the Worldwide Church of God is "Grace Communion International." Apparently, this name change is an attempt to distance themselves from Armstrongism. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 213 Registered: 2-2008 |
It is available on youtube, it is called CALLED TO BE FREE Chris | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2010 |
Dennis, in the video they said they didn't want to change their name because their story was a testimony of the power of God. Did this happen since the video was put out? | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2010 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMGJERAGMT4 Here is a link to it on Youtube. Its nice because its not all segmented out. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1924 Registered: 4-2000 |
Yes, they just recently changed their name. The video is excellent, but since that time they have added some unbiblical teachings that they didn't have before. This clearly reveals that a cult cannot really be reformed. I personally know members of that group, and they still tend to aspire to the unconventional, bizarre, unorthodox, unbiblical, etc. They miss the idea of knowing it all and being clanish. After all, the doctrinal changes didn't come from the members in the pew but were thrust upon them by their hierarchy. Moreover, their pastors were largely ill-equipped theologically to explain the changes to their members. The typical WCG member felt betrayed by their leadership. About sixty percent have left already. They had to sell their primary college (Ambassador College) and Big Sandy Youth Camp in Texas. The Youth Camp in Texas is now owned by the Hobby Lobby Company as their corporate headquarters. Hobby Lobby sells various imports, artificial flower arrangements, mirrors, knicknacks, seasonal decorations, hobby supplies, sewing supplies, etc. All their stores are closed on Sundays to enable their employees to attend church and be with their families. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 664 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dennis, just curious, what are the new unbiblical teachings they have added? I read a very interesting book by "Lapacka" called "Out of the Shadows" about a man who got out of that cult, and the similarity to sda's was very evident. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1926 Registered: 4-2000 |
Bb, The unbiblical teachings they have adopted in recent times include that salvation is available after one's death and extrabiblical revelations (glossolalia) during non-worship times. They subscribe to the notion that somehow truth lies beyond Scripture. Thus, they are not like Protestants who fervently uphold sola scriptura. Interestingly, what does visioning, channeling, glossolalia, spiritism, voodoo, and unidentified flying objects have in common? They all depend upon one's experience. Thus, there is a very slim chance to talk any of those people out of something that they have really experienced with their own eyes, ears, hands, and feet. In contrast to living by faith alone, these people place their experiences as the ultimate criteria for authenticity and authority. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11077 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bb, the doctrinal statement of Grace Communion International is online. That is where I discovered they believe in being saved after death. We have had some former WCG members occasionally attend our Friday Bible study. Some are active Christians; others are a little "out there"... Here's what we've noticed: those who stay in their congregations —the ones that are "reformed", not the traditional WCG—have a much harder time assimilating a biblical worldview. Even though their pastors have accepted and teach the new covenant, because they have not "cross-pollenated" with Christians who've never been WCG, they tend still to see many things a bit narrowly or aberrantly. The congregations tend to be small, somewhat spiritually dry, and there's no way people can fully move into evangelical understanding if they don't learn from evangelicals who have a solid grip on Scripture. Some congregations, even though they embrace the New Covenant in some form, move into unbiblical idea about church and worship and understanding of Scripture. I'm not personally aware of the "glossolalia" that Dennis mentions...I'm not saying it's not there, but I'm not aware of it. That is not the shape of my concern. I know there are some ideas related to the atonement and to meeting as a group that I find alarming; the magazine Plain Truth, edited by one of the leaders of the WCG who was part of moving the group into Christianity, while it contains many good articles, has on occasion printing things I consider way outside evangelical understanding. One former Adventist I know was pursued as a more-or-less regular contributor to Plain Truth, and that person no longer writes for them because of their theological positions. While I praise God for the amazing move many of them made away from Armstrongism into Christianity, nevertheless I believe that when people leave a cult, they need to worship with Christians and not stay grouped only with others "like them". If they don't branch out, they have a much harder time reshaping their worldview--and they will have a much harder time witness to their loved ones who remain. It's really only as we have the courage to leave "the cult" and submit ourselves to Scripture and to sound Bible teaching that we become able to really address our past without confusion. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8071 Registered: 3-2004  |
My DIL's parents were in the WWCG. When it broke up they eventually went to another church. They have since left that church and have returned to the WWCG. They no longer celebrate Christmas. Thankfully my DIL was baptized at the base chapel in Little Rock and is a Christian now. We pray for her parents. Her father approved of her marrying my son because he was sda. My son has not told his FIL that he is no longer sda. That is about all I know of the WWCG. Diana L | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2010 |
All this helps to answer the origonal question of tapping into their media outreach. Wow, that is really sad. I don't believe the SDAs can reform either. At the end of the day, why reform to keep your name? It's all about Jesus. I think part of wanting reformation rather than closing shop is the need to hold onto the familure. I have been deeply blessed by leaving to be with others who have the real truth. I dont know where Id be without the real Christians in my life today. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8072 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am constantly telling God thank you for telling me to go to the church I attend and for the friends I have made there. At times it seems to good to be true and I think I am going to wake up and find myself back in sdaism. It is a strange feeling, but it is only a feeling and not a fact. Having real Christians in my life keeps me in today. Thank you awesome God for telling me to attend my church. Diana L | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1928 Registered: 4-2000 |
Interestingly, it is commonplace for the Grace Communion International churches to have the pastor to read an email update from their Pastor General on happenings in their denomination (before the sermon). This still reflects the extraordinary importance of their hierarchy. Also, because of limited musical talent available, the local WCG used canned music almost exclusively. Another unique custom among them is for the head of each family to carry an attache case to church. Under Armstrongism, the Lord's supper was celebrated only annually. Thus, some members refused to participate in communion services more frequently. FYI, I have personally given two public presentations (not sermons) at the local WCG congregation several years ago. They find it very difficult to assimulate other believers into their fellowship. They maintain a somewhat closed social network, and like Adventists, they love to expound upon the unusual, aberrant, unbiblical, and strange. Moreover, just like Adventists in small congregations, the WCG members often get into each other's hair (smile). Unlike Seventh-day Adventists, however, their potlucks often include real wine (even homemade dandelion wine). I remember the time when I made the mistake of briefly denouncing the theology of the late Herbert Armstrong prior to a worship service, and my comment was quickly addressed by remnants of Armstrongism still alive among them. Some find the exclusiveness of their church so important that they actually travel to another State each week for services. I know of a devout family that make it a whole day each week, and they regularly packed a picnic lunch because of the distance required for travel. They certainly would be far better off attending a Bible-based church in their community instead. Most of their meeting places are rented--a tradition from Armstrongism when Herbert (also known among them as "the old man") soaked up all the money for himself. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1929 Registered: 4-2000 |
PS: Some of their in-house jargon has not changed (i.e., calling their annual, campmeeting-like conventions "festivals"). Thus, even their in-house language makes the New Covenant more difficult to understand. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1930 Registered: 4-2000 |
The following links officially verify that Grace Communion International allows tongues-speaking during non-worship times (i.e., small groups, etc.). Typically, these "small groups" are not home-based, but take place within the church building where they can be adequately supervised and controlled. http://wcg.org/lit/booklets/tongues/misuse.htm#Practice http://wcg.org/lit/booklets/tongues/allowed.htm http://wcg.org/lit/booklets/tongues/forbid.htm Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jls72612 Registered user Username: Jls72612 Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2009 |
Former SDA pastor Mark Martin and Grace Upon Grace Productions produced a DVD that exposed the false teachings of SDA. Check out - Seventh-day Adventism The Spirit Behind the Church - www.exadventist.com ~Judy | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 653 Registered: 12-2007 |
I have that DVD and I like it and agree with it, but honestly think it could have been better.... with more information, Bible texts, comparisons etc. I think it would be more effective that way to actually reach SDA's .. This one to me just seems more like it is aimed at those who have already left... maybe I am wrong, but when I ordered it I honestly expected more ... and was a little dissappointed at the content as I was hoping for something that I thought would be effective to share with SDA's... I just dont think this one would make much of an impact on the majority of them. Just personally speaking I think if there was more detail,, maybe outlining a bunch of stuff the church teaches and things EGW said, etc compared to what the Bible says. And yet... I think more SDA's would be willing to watch something with the name "Mark Martin" on the label than Dale Ratzlaff, etc.. because I think Dale is actually better known among SDA's and they might tend to refuse to even watch anything they thought was put out by him because of the bad press he has received through the denomination. Maybe the Tinkers could put together something along with Mark Martin and sneak Dale in there once it gets going and their interest is peaked... ... :-)LOL |
