| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2010 |
This person is giving texts as to why they do not believe we are spirit beings, but rather completely physical obviously resulting in soul sleep. Here are their texts. Pretty understandable why they think this when reading them. I am so new to this topic I don't know how to explain these accept to think they are talking about the "spiritually dead". Help anyone? _______________________ And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 1. God formed man of the dust. 2. God breath into his nostrils the breath of life. 3. Thus man became a living soul. Dust + breath = living soul. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 What happens at death is the opposite to what happens at creation. The spirit that returns to God is simply the breath of life which God breath into man in the beginning. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26 The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. Psalm 104:29-30 Is the patriarch David in heaven or the grave? The bible says in Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. AND Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:4 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD. Meaning we all sleep in the graves till Jesus comes again. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:6 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14: 10-12 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 14:14 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. Job 14:21 ONLY GOD HAS IMMORALITY. Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:15-16 These two verses alone say that ONLY God has immortality. We do not. We stay in the graves until Jesus calls whether unto the resurrection of life; OR unto the resurrection of damnation. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 697 Registered: 8-2008 |
Ask them to do a thought experiment: Say they themselves create a human body entirely out of organic tissue, then breathe into its nostrils. Ask them if they think this will cause the body to come alive. If not, then they must recognize something spiritual, and not merely physical, is going on in Genesis. The texts in Ecclesiastes are written from the context of "under the sun," relating what the author thought and saw when he was apart from God (see the first chapter). As Jerry Gladstone pointed out in an article in Proclamation, it is disingenuous to use Eccl 9:5 as a proof-text, because the book of Ecclesiastes would similarly then deny any possibility of a bodily resurrection as well. The only consistent method of interpreting Eccl 9, then, is to correctly recognize that the context is "under the sun," reflecting the thought-processes both of those who are not reconciled to God, and of those who do not yet have the hope of the slain and risen Messiah. In the OT, Jesus had not yet died and risen, so man could not yet truly know of eternal life. Instead, we find exactly what we would expect: A reflection of the fact that, in the Old Covenant, there was no assurance of eternal life. Second, the understanding of what happens when we die progressed from the Old to the New Testament. Adventists would do well to study the history on this, because there was no uniform OT view of what happens after death. The view developed through the OT, and continued developing in the inter-testamental period as shown in the Apocrypha. But even in Jesus' day, Judaism did not have a uniform view on this subject, with the Sadducees denying any chance of life after death (even physical resurrection), and the Pharisees supporting the idea of resurrection. That is why Paul told the Sanhedrin that he was being challenged because of his belief in the resurrection. In Acts, it was Jews who had seen him in Ephesus (Acts 21:27,29) who raised the ruckus and got Paul arrested in the Jewish Temple. Paul tells the Sanhedrin, controlled in part by Pharisees who believed in the resurrection, that he was being charged by those Jews from Ephesus because Paul also believed in the resurrection. The implication is that the Jews who charged him were Sadducees. This is entirely believable, because the denial of a bodily resurrection would be common among Hellenized Jews living among a pagan Greek people who derided any idea of a bodily resurrection. The point here is that the Bible itself, in the New Testament, testifies that the Jewish people were as a whole unclear on the subject of life after death. Thirdly, they should study up on what "eternal" means. It does not merely mean that time goes on in a straight-line for ever. Eternity is where God resides, and it is therefore in that sense outside of the time of our universe. When Jesus says we have eternal life, He means that in Him our life is divorced from the power of the calendar because, in Him, we reside in God's presence in eternity (see, for instance, Colossians and Ephesians, where we are described as sitting with Him in heavenly places, and hidden with Christ in God). That is why those who are in Him NEVER die (NEVER means NEVER in John 11:26). They are correct that only God has immortality. God alone has life intrinsic to Him, and the life of all created beings is therefore derived from His life, through creation. It is a non-sequitir to say, however, that this means saved human beings do not go to be with Jesus when their bodies die. The text in 1 Tim 6 says no such thing. They might also do well to study the historical doctrine of soul-sleep held by other Christian groups. Then they would realize that their variant is not actually soul-sleep, and cannot be identified with any historical Christian belief system before 1844. Christian groups throughout history who believe in soul sleep believe exactly that: That we have a soul or spirit that is more than a physical body, that it goes to be with Jesus in a sort of sleep when the believer dies, but never it ceases to exist. Finally, ask them this: When you go to sleep at night, do you cease to exist until you wake up again in the morning? When Jesus told the Jews that dead people were sleeping, He was not talking to people who thought that your spirit lives on after death in God's presence. He was talking to people who, like Adventists, believed that in some way one no longer exists until a bodily resurrection. By saying the person was sleeping, Jesus was indicating that the person does indeed still exist. Context shows that His audience thought the person was completely gone. That is why His audience laughed when He said it. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 793 Registered: 2-2008  |
I'm sorry Free2dance... I just have to smile!  "ONLY GOD HAS IMMORALITY." ... I know this is a typo! It just made me chuckle! vivian p.s. I do have to say that I have not studied this topic enough. Thanks for bringing it up again. |
