| Author |
Message |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 1:39 pm: |     |
Just responded to their website. I cited a passage in the Clear Word for them to look at and asked them if they felt they could with integrity also sell the Mormon Bible.
Keri |
Jdpascal
Registered user
Username: Jdpascal
Post Number: 205
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 2:05 pm: | |
They might as well be selling the 'new world translation'. |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 303
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 2:28 pm: | |
Just emailed them also--asked them if they want to be responsible for deceiving people into a false gospel & gave examples. This is shocking! |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6083
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 3:27 pm: | |
Me too Jeremy,
I have listened to Billy Graham more than thirty years, and I have never heard him preach more than the simple gospel of salvation.
Not saying he ain't, just that, thats all I ever heard him preach.
River |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3175
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 3:36 pm: | |
River,
I doubt Billy Graham even knows they are selling Review & Herald books. Like you said above, they need to be more careful with what they do under his name, especially considering that many people think they can trust something with the name "Billy Graham" on it.
I also noticed that they sell books by Word of Faith teachers such as Kenneth Hagin and Benny Hinn.
I noticed that they do have a disclaimer at the bottom of their site, which says:
quote:"Items available for purchase on this site may have been produced by third parties. As a result, the opinions or representations contained in those materials may not necessarily be shared or endorsed by the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association."
But that's not an excuse for using no discernment when adding items/publishers to their stock.
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on March 08, 2010) |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3176
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 4:23 pm: | |
I also sent them an email, letting them know some of the problems with Adventism, etc.
Jeremy |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1213
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 8:08 pm: | |
Actually River, the Old Testament does specifically say that the "seventh day is the Sabbath." (Exodus 20:10) It was given to Israel at least two weeks before Sinai at the giving of the manna. (Exodus 16:23-29)
For any Adventists who might be curious, I'd like to add that the Sabbath was the sign of the covenant made only between Israel and God (Exodus 31:13); was given, along with the rest of the law, 430 years after Abraham (Galatians 3:17); was part of the Old Covenant (specifically spelled out in Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 5); and which became obsolete when Christ brought in the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). All the various kinds of Sabbaths are shadows of Christ (Colossians 2:16,17) and Jesus is now our Rest. He says to come to Him and He will give you rest (Matthew 11:28).
Everyone who doesn't understand that Jesus is now our rest is setting themselves up to be decieved by a works-oriented religion. Yes, nine of the ten commandments are repeated in the new, but we're not saved by keeping any commands. The Holy Spirit indwells believers in the new covenant [New Testament] (2 Corinthians 3:7,8). |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6085
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 1:53 am: | |
I know all this Dianne, what I ask is,where does it say what day?
Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
It says, the seventh day, count them, i,2,3,4,5,6,7. There is no mention of what day this is to be on, and thats what the man said.
I can count from Tuesday midnight,and the Sabbath is on Wednesday.
Exodus 16:23 Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "
That is the closest I can come to identifying the sabbath day, but what day was 'tomorrow'?
Traditionally, it may be on Saturday, but there doesn't seem to be a clue to be sure.
One thing I night add, there is a danger for the former to begin using the Bible as a legal book, exactly as a lawyer uses law books to win a legal case, thus missing what God has for them.
I believe I have seen a tendency to do that,thus fulfilling Jesus words, John 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
We have to be careful not to out pharisee the pharisee here.
You can't be in such a hurry to go thru and post your new "Evidence" that you miss what God has for you in the final restoration unto himself.
Jesus was and is about restoring man unto himself.
The plan was made and the prophecy told right in the garden of Eden in what we call the Evangelicum, ie. Genisis 3:15.
They searched the scripture with God, the promise, the restorer, standing right before them.
You buy book after book after book, after book until your libraries are full to overflowing, when the giver of life has come, you reject the Holy Spirit while searching the scripture to get an ahhaIgotcha on your Adventist brothers and I will not accept you says the Lord of Hosts.
I don't know who that was for, It wasn't for everybody, but it won't help to shoot the messenger I'll tell you that.
River |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 576
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 10:05 am: | |
River,
I like what you said :
"You buy book after book after book, after book until your libraries are full to overflowing, when the giver of life has come, you reject the Holy Spirit while searching the scripture to get an ahhaIgotcha on your Adventist brothers and I will not accept you says the Lord of Hosts."
While we KNOW that Adventism teaches false doctrine, we should primarily not be here for those "ahha I gotcha" moments, (even though they do serve a purpose I think in validating to ourselves that we made the right decision in leaving) but to search SCRIPTURE and learn from that book, Gods word to us, the most important of all books.
All other books, no matter how "inspiring" are not "inspired" (IMO)
Francie/Skeeter |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1216
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 8:43 pm: | |
Well, River; the Israelites knew what day was the seventh, because when that guy was caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath, they brought him in. They would have all had to have been "on the same page" so to speak, with the same weekly Sabbath, week after week. To this day, those who are orthodox keep the same day, week after week.
The sad thing is, they don't know that the Messiah has come and fulfilled it. Neither do Seventh-day Adventists, most of whom are Gentiles to whom the law was never given (Romans 2:14).
(Another weird bit of irony about Adventists is that by avoiding "unclean" meats, they are, in effect, saying that Gentiles are still excluded from God's kingdom - including Adventist Gentiles! Remember that Gentiles [such as Ruth] had to JOIN with Israel in Old Testament times in order to be God's people. Jesus tore down that wall by His death and resurrection [Ephesians 2:14,15].
You can see how the "unclean" meats represented the "unclean" Gentile nations around Israel in Leviticus 20:24-26.
And remember Peter's vision in Acts 10? He was really confused afterward until some Gentiles showed up at his gate. Later he told them: "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean." [Acts 10:28]) |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6090
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 2:49 am: | |
Asurprise (chuckle), technically Adventist ought to have to eat cold food, lest they 'light a fire' by turning on a stove.
Here in this part of the northwest we turn on an electric burner.
My wife had a plastic jug of cooking oil on our stove the other day, and inadvertantly lit a burner under it. She certainly 'lit a fire', LoL!
Some Adventist friends were on the way up to visit us, staying in a motel that night, the next day being Sabbath, he was worried about traveling on Sabbath, but they cranked up the car to go to a restaurant to eat and lit a fire in the cylinders, all six, then worked the maid servants and the men servants after they got to the restaurant.
If they knew how utterly out of tune they are with the rest of the Christian world! And I think they do, they are not stupid, they just act stupid, which I think is the reason they don't like to reveal they are Adventist.
I think deep down they know they are not observing the old Sabbath, but breaking it at every turn, and as you said, they are gentiles.
When I consider the problems with truly keeping the old Sabbath it boggles my mind.
You would have to turn off the electricity to the house lest you boil water, no tv period, electricity does work, no computers, and then technically they would be putting one another to death, no driving, I could go on and on.
But technically they try to lay burdens on the other people they will not lift a finger to assuage or observe themselves.
An Adventist friend of mine wanted some cabinet's built, his daughter, being a carpenter, wanted to come over the next day to measure, but he backed out, she lives 225 mile's away, but he would not let her 'measure' with a tape measure, thus depriving his daughter of doing something for him, I can imagine how the daughter felt, my heart went out to her. She had to go back home with no way to plan the cabinet's.
The more I dwell on it the sadder I get, then the madder I get at the whole ball of wax.
Its not that I don't have understanding of it Dianne, it's that I do have understanding of it.
Therein lies the frustration.
The same friend who denied his own daughter is always upset because his kids don't attend church, but imagine the frustration these girls feel. He wants them to do something he cannot, and will not do himself.
Freedom has not come to their door, instead, frustration and blindness inhabits every waking moment. Longing and spiritual frustration inhabits them, and don't tell me it don't, I have peered into the maw of Adventism.
River |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 654
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 5:13 am: | |
River, let me tell you exactly how that man feels when he denied allowing his daughter to measure for the cabinets.
He felt that he had honored the Sabbath and his conscience was clear. In adventism you are bombarded with stories of people who "stood up for the Sabbath" and were blessed. He may have been a little sad that he had hurt his daughter, but that was nothing compared to the feeling that he had "overcome the temptation" to go "against God's word" and allow someone to work in his home on the Sabbath.
It is so true that each adventist settles on what they think "work" is. They actually compromise and struggle with their conscience at each turn. Eventually, they refer to ellen's stance on what was a Sabbath activity and use her writings to guide them in this modern world. It is easy to compromise with the new gadgets as ellen didn't have anything to say about computers, etc.
If they only realized the foolishness of it all! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11037
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 5:47 pm: | |
Yup, Bb, you're right. There's a feeling of nobility in defending the Sabbath even at the expense of one's family's feelings. Besides, the Adventist KNOWS they're right. I know--I was one, and I had all those attitudes, too.
And if a "lapsed" Adventist family member tries to do work on Sabbath for the Adventist, that is seen as being hostile and disrespectful.
I just had a phone call from a former Adventist whose elderly mother has Alzheimer's disease. Last Saturday the mother asked her daughter at least half a dozen times what day it was, and when she answered "Saturday" or "Sabbath", the mother would burst into tears and say, "I just sinned. The commandment says to 'remember the Sabbath', and I just forgot."
It's terribly sad...
Colleen |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6101
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 10:16 pm: | |
Now that IS really sad Colleen, thats the kind of stuff that really gets to me.
Seems to me, if you disagree with Adventism on just about any point, it is seen as hostile though, at least that has been my experience.
I am beginning to wonder if we got to even try to keep the peace with them by staying silent, if they are going to see everything you say as hostile, might as well come out of the shoot with the truth about it.
If I aim to ride a bull, there ain't no question in either of our minds about who's on his back, just open the gate and ride the eight seconds.
Either way he ain't going to take kindly to me sitting on his back.
River
P.S. I doubt if I could stay on two seconds now, but an Adventist ain't no bull, all they are is a crow hopping broke down nag. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11040
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 11:05 pm: | |
River, I understand. I believe we have to speak the truth clearly. Being loving means we're not mean-spirited or defensive, attempting to win an argument, but it does mean we're direct and clear and that we clearly articulate reality.
I'm more and more convinced that God has not given us a spirit of fear but has given us His own Spirit so we can speak for Him unafraid. He asks me to submit to Him and to speak truth as He directs.
Colleen |
Bobalou
Registered user
Username: Bobalou
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 8:43 am: | |
How about this, Adventists, like the Jews, are very legalistic. When they go outside their "gates" they use the part of the 4th commandment that says: nor the alien within your gates. They can conveniently say that the electric plant operated by the alien is not within their gate and the alien employees of the restaurant and motel are not within their gate. Remember the commandment doesn't say anything about spending shekels.:-) |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6105
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 9:35 am: | |
Bobalou,
I think you hit the old nail right on the head!
 River |
Sharon3
Registered user
Username: Sharon3
Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2010
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 4:24 pm: | |
I remember turning a paper boy away on Friday night and asking him to come when my Sabbath was over. Even while I did it, it didn't feel right to me and in the future I changed that behavior. "I'm sorry paper boy for making you do a second trip to my house.That wasn't being Christian."
I can't believe there is so much legalixm over the Sabbath yet. My last 15 years in Adventism weren't that way for me.
I'm so sorry for those who still have family there that are giving them so much trouble over leaving. I'm still learning how unChristian so many of them still are. My journey out was easier because my family was supportive and most of it gone already. I was the last kool aid drinker. |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 2043
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 6:28 pm: | |
Sharon3,
At least you weren't a Jim Jones follower. The Holy Spirit spared your life by showing you that there was poison in the cool aid.
Fearless Phil |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 734
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 6:08 am: | |
Rootbeer is more healthy for ya !!!!! Works wonders if you add a scoop of vanilla icecream to it too.
Trust me.....Animal |
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