| Author | Message | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2006 |
I know I asked this in a previous post but...I still don't fully understand. If anyone has input I would appreciate it. I'm still trying to figure this out. If EGW teaches the sabbath is the final test, found in 'last day events', why do Adventists need a savior? I don't understand how they proclaim Jesus and His importance, but all things point to the 4th commandment. EGW says in the last days nominal christians will not be saved, because they keep Sunday and not Sabbath. EGW says God's love is demonstrated through obediance. In the new testament Jesus teaches of grace and love and new life and rewarding relationship, if sabbath the 'final test' is more important than grace, why did he not instruct this? I don't understand Adventists need for Christ, if keeping the sabbth is pertinent to salvation. This is just something I struggle with. Why? What is the importance of Jesus to Adventist? If Christ saves us by grace through faith in Him, and makes us new in Him, why isn't the 'final test' relevant to our relationship with Him, rather than sabbath-keeping? I looked for Jesus in Adventism, and I could not find Him...Why? | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2006 |
Also, if satan is the 'scapegoat' as EGW says, why do they need a savior? I've asked Adventists this, why can't they give me a solid answer? They say 'well, He was perfect and He died for my sins', true, but they still uphold that satan is the final 'scapegoat', as EGW taught. They also say that other religions believe this too, they just don't educate their followers as well as the SDA system does.. My mil says 'we are the truth', she refers to the fact that they obey the 4th commandment. Where is Jesus in Adventism? Shouldn't He be the 'truth'? I don't understand why they need a savior if everything hangs on keeping the law. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 529 Registered: 7-2005 |
Let me put in this way: Jesus Christ is your "second chance" or third, or fourth, or n-th chance to pass the test that Adam failed to pass in the garden of Eden. He failed to be obedient to God and allied himself with Satan and his fallen angels, but he was offered (and humanity with him was included in this offer)another chance to get it right, to came back to total obedience, because without Jesus sacrifice there is no second chance: Adam would die. In the theology of Adventism Jesus is essential because the "second chance" cannot happen without God's forgiveness. Nevertheless, this grace is not pure grace, it's a grace that goes so far in providing you the opportunity to do what is right now what Adam had not done, and offers also the power to do what is right; it doesn't go far enough in order to make you right, to put you in that position before God where you can truly consider yourself right before God, justified, acquitted, saved, once for all. It offers a temporary relief from the burden of your sin, guilt and perhaps from the power, still you have to obey, you have to pass a test and do what is right (meaning perfect obedience, what Adam failed to accomplish) in order to pass the test of the final judgment. It brings you a lot of the road toward the goal, to be sure, still it doesn't go with you until the final end: the last part of the travel you have to do by yourself and with God's help. You are, like Adam, under probation, and the time of grace is considered the time of probation. You have the chance, the opportunity to pass the probation, after which the time of grace (or rather "probation" in adventist language) closes and you're brought before God's judment in which your works prove or disprove your success in passing the test. In adventism Jesus, while being an essential asset (not the best word, but that's what I found for the moment), functions rather as a co-savior, you're saving yourself with his help and his forgiveness that offers you again and again the opportunity to reach the goal and prove your faithfulness. Hope it helps Gabriel | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 990 Registered: 10-2008 |
Cortney, I love your questions. So insightful. One quote particularly stuck out at me: "I looked for Jesus in Adventism, and I could not find Him...Why?" He isn't there. Is that a simple enough answer? There really isn't any Son of God/Son of Man (omnipotent God) in the institution and doctrines of Adventism. Their doctrines have no need of Jesus - EVEN if they fluster up and say they believe in Him. Jesus is a like a "good-luck" rabit's foot for the institution of Adventism - a deceptive ploy on words to seem evangelical, but they lack the "Word". In Adventist theology Jesus is not almighty God in the flesh (even if they allude to it with their words - they use right-sounding words, but do not know the Word). You did not find Jesus in Adventism, because the Biblical Jesus is not in their doctrines or teachings. Jesus is a brother to humanity (in Adventism) - not Emmanuel - God with us. Many Adventists can't see, because they are not born again and don't have the Holy Spirit leading them to spiritual truth in scripture. Truth for Adventists is their doctrines which are colored by EGW. For them truth is not Jesus Christ Who said, "I am the way, the Truth, and the life."
Blessings as you see Jesus as both Almighty God, and intimate Savior. Keri | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7941 Registered: 3-2004  |
Many years ago I asked an sda minister, female, why I did not learn many of the things I learned in my 12 step program. Her answer surprised me as she said they did not know. I did not understand this until I left adventism 5 1/2 glorious years ago. Diana L | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-1999 |
Hi, Cortney, This is how I see Jesus in Adventist doctrines... Jesus is the first test of salvation. You have to believe that he came to die for your sins. Jesus being the first test of salvation is evident in the SDA's system of "evangelism". Their "evangelism", unlike most other denominations, focuses more on believers in other denominations and less on the unsaved. After you believe in Christ then you can enter the next phase--the second test--the Sabbath. As an Adventist, I sort of looked at Jesus as a downpayment for salvation. I could afford the weekly payments but I didn't have what was required for the downpayment. The work of the cross was the downpayment I couldn't make. Once I had the downpayment all I had to do was keep the Sabbath. Does that help?? | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 544 Registered: 12-2007 |
Sad isnt it ....? :-( Francie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7956 Registered: 3-2004 |
I used the sabbath as my insurance policy. Like when times got bad and people were planning to come after the sdas, I would go back to church and keep the sabbath. Looking at this now I see what a CRAZY way to think. Diana L |
