| Author | Message | ||
| Kathy23 Registered user Username: Kathy23 Post Number: 76 Registered: 6-2005  |
I realized recently that leaving the SDA church is just the beginning part of my faith journey. It’s since leaving that I have developed a relationship with the Lord that I never believed possible. I have had to articulate this journey a few times lately. It gets a little easier each time. I have realized that when I was an Adventist, I believed what they told me to believe. For a time I didn’t believe much of anything where God was concerned or was afraid to think too much about it. When I studied the Bible with a friend, I believed what she told me to believe. When I joined the Lutheran church, I believed what they told me to believe. I’m now in the part of my journey where I am learning to examine and develop my own theological beliefs. Here is a brief synopsis of my journey over the last couple of years. After finding out SDA was a false religion, I couldn’t get enough of studying the Bible. I read it a couple of times. I studied some with other women and much by myself. But that was just a part of my life. In the other part, I was going through a series of unsatisfying jobs. I have never found my niche in the working world. I never figured out what I wanted to be when I grew up. One day on my way home from work, I was praying and I said out loud “I want to be a counselor”. In the next breath I said “but it has to have a spiritual component.” I couldn’t get this out of my mind over the next few weeks. I looked into a few local colleges on the Internet that have a Masters in Counseling program. They sounded interesting but I couldn’t figure out how to put the “spiritual counseling” part in along with the psychological. I made an appointment with the pastor at my church. I asked her if I was nuts to be thinking about doing this at my age. She told me no I wasn’t nuts but she couldn’t picture me being a counselor without the “spiritual” part added in. I hadn’t told her about wanting that to be a part of it. It was a confirmation of sorts. She told me about the Pastoral Counseling degree offered at the seminary she attended. This seminary is only 10 minutes from where I work. I looked into the program, talked to people there and enrolled in the program a year ago. My first day of classes I sat in my car and pretty much had a panic attack. I finally went into class. One of the first things we did was each give our religious affiliation and tell a little bit about ourselves. I told the other students that I was a former Seventh-day Adventist but was now a Lutheran. In the row behind me a man introduced himself and said he was on a journey and still searching and then he looked at me and said one of the religions he had been affiliated with was Seventh-day Adventist. He wasn’t going to say this but mentioned it because I had. I believe God gave me that as a confirmation that I was in the right place. A year has gone by and I am learning more every day. I take theological classes and counseling classes. It’s not easy going to school part time and working full time but God is with me every step of the way. I don’t know where this will all go but I do know that God is in charge. There’s a Newsboys song with the words “Lord, I don't know where all this is going. Or how it all works out. Lead me to peace that is past understanding. A peace beyond all doubt.” That’s where I am at with it. Where are you on your journey? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10889 Registered: 12-2003  |
Kathy, that's a wonderful story. You're doing a hard thing, with your work and school all at once...isn't God amazing? Speaking of being surprised at where God is taking you--I still feel surprise that I'm where I am. God very definitely trained me Himself for His own purposes. He keeps bringing me to face the reality that I have to release to Him my fears, my expectations, and my "rights" and submit to His will for His glory. I'm thankful for what He is doing...and I am amazed that when I let go of my tight grip on my own plans, He brings me to the places and things He has prepared for me. It sounds as if this course you're taking is along that same line of God bringing about His will almost as a surprise! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7878 Registered: 3-2004  |
I am right where God wants me. He keeps me at a job, even though I am of retirement age. I am there for things more important then money. At my church I have the opportunity to tell other Christians what sdas believe. Right now he is preparing me to go into jails and prisons to bring the Celebrate Recovery message that Jesus heals all hurts, hang ups and habits. I never thought I would be doing that. He is in control of all things. How awesome is that??? Diana L | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 258 Registered: 5-2009 |
Kathy, that is so cool! Thank you for sharing!! Every time I look at your picture, I think I'm looking at my step-DIL--you guys are twins!! | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 977 Registered: 10-2008 |
I echo the others, Very cool. Keri | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5929 Registered: 9-2006  |
Kathy, I smiled when you said this: "I realized recently that leaving the SDA church is just the beginning part of my faith journey." 38 years ago God miraculously delivered me out of years of alcoholism in one day, and I had not a thing to do with it, seeing I spent the evening before, drunker than a skunk and passing out on the living room floor. God just picked me up and slammed me down on the hardwood floor of a small Pentecostal church next to the old Buck Owens studios in Oildale, California. I was living in East Bakersfield at the time. Oildale is just a suburb of Bakersfield. There was no walking down the isle or making a decision for God, he made a decision for me. It was then I thought I started out on my journey of faith, and I guess it was then I did. there has been many times since that day when I felt I was just starting out on my journey of faith, when God would do something new in my life. I will be 69 in a few days, and I am still just starting out on my journey of faith. It says in Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He has been giving the water of life to this thirsty soul, and making all things new, ever since that the day he slammed me down on the hardwood floor of that little Pentecostal church house. As Dianna says,"How awesome is that?" So if God allows, 20 years from now, you will 'just be starting out on your journey of faith'.  River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7881 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, you are a modern day Saul/Paul. How awesome is that??? Diana L | ||
| Julieb Registered user Username: Julieb Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2010 |
My journey is one of learning to trust God. Up to six years ago, I didn't know how to trust because (financially) I had everything I needed and probably a lot that I didn't need. But when the bottom dropped out of my finances He showed me that it was Him all the time anyway. Not only is He bringing me on a journey of trusting Him for my finances, I am learning to trust Him in all other areas of my life. Being a natural do-it-yourselfer, it is hard for me to let Him lead. I was so used to making things happen myself. Now, I'm learning to rest in Him. I am truly becoming a "kept woman." | ||
| Kathy23 Registered user Username: Kathy23 Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2005 |
He does make all things new! I love that! Each day is a new beginning. Julieb, I agree, it's hard to let go and let Him lead. I've had to do a lot of that this year too with school, work, and my husband being unemployed for over a year. God is awesome though and doesn't lead us astray. | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2008 |
I could write a lot on this, and I almost was going to... Then I decided to drop it, but then I thought something and came back What I know is that since Oct/Nov 2008 many things have happened. It's been one year since I started attending my church and I'm still surprised how things unfolded in this time. I've realised that life in the Adventist church now seems to me like something 'unreal', more like a dream... Sometimes I need to make a mental effort to remember things as they are and see them as a reality from a past that I've left behind. It might still linger at different levels, though, and sometimes things resurface but they don't master over me. Last Christmas I had a chat with my father to let him know how I reached my decision. Didn't want to get into doctrinal issues since it would distract from the purpose of the chat. He seemed really pleased (at least that's what I saw in his face) when I said that all changed in the moment I could see how everything depended on Jesus... But his answer was a bit perplexing, to put it mildly. He said that it took him a long time to understand the same and that he prayed to God that as He showed me that "little truth", then He would also show me the other "little truths" that, I guess they understand, form the whole thing (for example, the Sabbath). When he said that, I just thought how can they call it a "little truth"... It's something huge, massive! At least it was for me. It's at the core of the Gospel message and turns everything upside down in your life. I know that I would have reacted differently before and might have shared a similar view with him. So, where am I in the journey? God really knows. But that's the good thing, no? For me it is, at best, a bit confusing and surprising... But if He's the one leading, at least we can trust that it all will be for something good. Lately I've come to understand something a bit better... It's not about the size of my faith. It's about how trustworthy is the person or thing you put your faith in. That's why Jesus said that even if your faith were as small as the tiniest seed you'd be able to do amazing things... You can trust a friend with something important because you know him, you know he's trustworthy. Same with God. You will never completely trust that which you don't know. I admit that I do not trust God in the way He deserves. But in this journey He's been showing me more and more how trustworthy He is. It all started in the moment I decided to leave all my ideas and beliefs aside, and simply trust in Him because there was nothing else strong enough to hold me. And I know that, at least, I can trust that He'll continue helping me to grow in trust, love and understanding. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5933 Registered: 9-2006 |
I think psalm 138 speaks to that principle that you are saying Kathy, if I am not getting out of context. I am not a psalmist expert, but it seems David is lifting up his heart in praise, and as he does this he exclaims in Psalms 138:3 In the day when I cried out, You answered me, And made me bold with strength in my soul. In the day we cry out our frustration, lack of understanding, he knows that we are dust, and he strengthens our heart. Moving on to Psalms 138:8 The Lord will perfect that which concerns me; Your mercy, O Lord, endures forever; Do not forsake the works of Your hands. This prayer is answered in Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. Then doubly established in Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. All this Kathy said reminds me of the old song 'Learning to lean, learning to lean' 'I'm learning to lean on Jesus' However weak our baby steps, that recognition that we are learning to lean are the steps to peace and fulfillment in his grace. After Jesus reached down miraculously delivered me, and saved me to the utmost, it was many, many years before I could relinquish my self control, I felt that I had to remain in self control to a certain extent. I was afraid to relinquish my all to him. Have I completely done that? Probably not, but like Kathy, I am where I am. I disagree with you Kathy in saying, "You will never completely trust that which you don't know." I think I did reach that point, but it was many years later. So many years later it is embarrassing, but God knows our frame, and he knows how to get us there. God is the greatest fisherman in the world, and it seems to me he just gave a little yank and set the hook in my jaw, just enough to not tear out my jaw, then let me run with the hook in my mouth, and I went running,and running, and running, until I got tuckered out, then he reeled me in to his feet where I laid flopping, spent, and exhausted from running around doing my thing, then I gave up Kathy, I was just too tired to do anything else. I gave up my wild and disobedient spirit to the Lord forever. This flesh is still disobedient, but this flesh is under a death sentence, and when that sentence is carried out, I will go to him forever more. I think many times we confuse the giving up of the flesh, with the giving up of the spirit, but I don't think it is giving up of the flesh. We are in the flesh if we ain't dead, but we have become a spiritual being, a new creature. The flesh will do what it will do, which is do what flesh does. It says in Psalms 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalms 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish. Psalms 146:5 Happy is he who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in the Lord his God, Guess the Adventist missed that 'spirit departs' part eh? That is because they are so busy proof texting, trying their best to hold up an untenable Biblical position. But thats another story for another time. River | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2008 |
River, I was the one who wrote that! Maybe Kathy's text just got a bit mixed with mine, as I see that she wrote just before me. Now I am not sure if your reply was for me or for her :D | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5934 Registered: 9-2006 |
Aw Heck Martin, I was mixed up. But I think I was mostly talking to myself anyhow. But if you can find a nugget in amongst the coal I shovel, anybodys welcome to it. I'm sure I can find something to disagree with Kathy to even it out. Haa! River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1157 Registered: 7-2007 |
River, about the spirit departing; Adventists would have no trouble. They'd just say "of course, that's the person's breath going back to God." I remember being taught as an Adventist that the word "spirit" came from "pneuma" as in "pneumatic drill," etc. The trouble is, the word "Spirit" as in "Holy Spirit" comes from the word "pneuma." So Adventists would, from their definition, have to say "Holy breath." That sounds blasphemous! (Also they'd have to interpret 1st Corinthians 2:11 to mean that a person's breath knows the person's thoughts! ) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5936 Registered: 9-2006 |
Sad state of affairs ain't it Dianne? | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1158 Registered: 7-2007 |
Kathy, at this point, I'm still learning to trust that God won't drop me. When I was an Adventist, I was taught it was all up to me, so there's fifty years of Adventist "baggage" there. It was totally astounding to find out that the SDA church was false. Seeing that Hebrews 6:19,20 (and Hebrews 9:12,25; etc.) clearly says that Jesus ALREADY went into the Most Holy Place, whereas Ellen White clearly says in "Early Writings" in the beginning of the chapter called; "The Open and the Shut Door," that Jesus DID NOT go into the Most Holy Place until 1844 showed me that Ellen White was a false prophet. Then I found out that the Bible says that Jesus brought in a whole new covenant when He died and that the old one is obsolete! (Hebrews 8:13; Hebrews 9:15-17 and Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deut. 5 to see what the old one was!) Now we're in the "ministry of the Spirit" instead of the "ministry of death, written and engraved on stones!" - 2 Cor. 3:7,8 (Nine of the original ten are repeated in the new covenant, but the Holy Spirit in us is our guarantee of eternal life- Eph. 1:13,14 - not our own "keeping" anything.) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1159 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes, it is; River.  The worst thing is that Adventists are so SURE without anything but a string of "proof" texts taken out of context; and of course Ellen White. Looking back at my 50 years as an Adventist, I don't really know why I believed the church was true, except that I believed the "proof" texts proved everything and Ellen White's miracles (like holding up that big heavy Bible and reading it without looking). | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7886 Registered: 3-2004 |
Asurprise, I believed without any doubts in adventism. I took it all in, hook, line, and sinker. Even when my name was taken off the church books I kept on going back. I did not know any better. That went on for many years and I am older then you. I believed it all!!! Thank our awesome God, I am no longer there. Diana L | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5937 Registered: 9-2006 |
In 1 John the writer is talking about not loving this world, then he switches gears and begins with this John I 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. He finishes up this line of thought in verse 27. In Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. In Romans 16:17 Talks about getting away from the doctrine they had learned 16:Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. In John I 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. John I 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: John I 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. This spirit of antichrist is the spirit that deceived us all. If the spirit of antichrist had no power to deceive, there would be no purpose is trying the spirits, and we stand in amazement at this thing that holds captive those who are being deceived. We now know the difference between truth and error because the Spirit of truth is in us. John I 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Or in other words to be in Christ is the only safe place. Many times over the years I remember how I drove the Kern Canyon road in that Mustang so drunk I had to close one eye to see the white line in the middle of the road. The Kern Canyon road is 20 miles of bad road with the Kern river and the rocks below to receive any car that ventures off the road. I think about how I could have died in a car crash, and wonder how I made it. If I had died, I would have perished in Hell, and it is scary to think about. I was living at hells door. Like Dianna said, I can only thank our awesome God that I am no longer there. Either way, whether delivered from Adventism or drunkeness, we none of us have a thing to attribute to our own selves about. I still stand in such amazement at why God would pick a drunk up off the floor. It just blows my mind how really awesome he is. River | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 700 Registered: 6-2005  |
Three years out and LOVING every minute of it! What a great effort God took to deliver me. How much He loves me! I am most recently becomming more passionate about pursuing holiness. Not legalism or religion--horrors! Just Godliness, submission, having my mind renewed by God Himself, not by my weak efforts. Its so amazing to be a Christ follower instead of a church follower. Everything about christianity fascinates me. I am learning to BELIEVE what God says in His word. Example: I was feeling frustrated about not seeing the fruit of my labors and efforts at evangelism--lots of dead ends with people just not interested. Then God revealed a new focus on one specific text...."follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Not "I can make you fishers of men, or I might make you fishers of men if you do it the right way with the right formula. NO, He said, I WILL make you fishers of men. So, I am letting that truth set in, and waiting expenctantly, becuase God cannot lie, and He is not limited by my humanity! Ok, there is my rabbit trail. Back to the original question-- the air is better on this side of the fence, the grass greener, the love stronger. Lori | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1875 Registered: 4-2000  |
Lori, Sometimes I tend to be a bit jealous of those who took far less time than me to see the darkness and falsity of Seventh-day Adventism. Collectively, my wife and I have more than one hundred years of experience in Adventism. One could reasonably argue that we were slow learners. However, at His appointed time, God called us out of a toxic-faith system. Nothing is lost and God restores the many years that the locusts ate. Moreover, it was nothing less than a miracle that my wife and I both left Adventism officially at the same time (October 16, 2000). To God alone belongs all the glory! Now that I have briefly shared my spiritual journey, it is my prayerful request that you join me in singing my testimony in song, "He touched me, and I will never cease to praise Him."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIgErxNu6X4 May the inspiring words of this song, penned by Bill Gaither in 1962, reflect the true nature of your heart as well. Our sovereign, triune God is efficaciously and irresistably calling many out of false gospels as never before witnessed. A soteriological stance that makes one's heart to sing with gratitude and praise is truly God-centered and God-exalting. The most compassionate and loving deed that anyone can do is to warn others against toxic-faith systems--especially the subtle ones masquerading in our communities as authentic Evangelicals or mainline Protestants. This why the inspired writers of the New Testament devoted so much time and effort to dispel and expose numerous heresies. The greatest fortress against any heresy is to be thoroughly grounded in Scripture. The Bible is God's voice speaking to us. It is most noteworthy, throughout redemptive history, that our sovereign God never goes on a rescue mission that fails. Dead men cannot make themselves alive. Think about it! Eternity is a very long time to be wrong. In His power and for His glory, Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on February 13, 2010) | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 703 Registered: 6-2005 |
Dennis, 100 years! Ouch! It was only about 42 for me! But 4 generations in my family line. Thanks for that song. My dad used to sing that solo, and as you know he died a couple of years ago. I could just picture him singing that song as I listened. The words had fresh meaning as I listened from a different perspective. Thanks again. It is indeed difficult to speak out against toxic faith systems. I recieving a bit of flack lately, even from mainline christians who dont think I should rock the boat and question other church's doctrine or practices. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1177 Registered: 7-2007 |
I too, was in the SDA system a long time - over 50 years! God performed a series of miracles for me to be delivered from the SDA system, as I've already shared. (I recently related Handmaiden's faith story too, on another thread - that she related to me. It's more exciting than mine! ) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1987 Registered: 5-2007  |
Our faith becomes "the faith of Abraham" when we become "so old" that we know there is nothing we can do to "help out" God to fulfill God's promise to us. For each of us, our faith is faith when we understand how helpless we are to add anything to what only God can, will and is doing. Fearless Phil | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 271 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you, Dennis for posting that song--now that I am a Christian, these songs mean more than they ever did before when I didn't understand the Biblical gospel. |
