| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1164 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've been emailing one of my sisters for years, but she still doesn't seem to understand the gospel. I've been suspecting that she doesn't WANT to know that the SDA church is false. She won't listen to me point these things out on the phone. When I tried last, she held the phone away from her ear so she wouldn't hear it. She must just skim my emails so that she won't "get" what I'm saying. It's frustrating. Here's my latest email where I'm showing her that Jesus went ALREADY into the Most Holy Place and didn't wait until 1844 and answering her implied suggestion that the King James Version supports Ellen White's doctrine, showing that it absolutely does not! Quote: Dear _____, If you can prove me wrong, please do so. I want to know the TRUTH! I didn't set out to prove the SDA church wrong. Not at all! I was shocked to find out that the SDA church was false! In your letter you're referring to the King James Version where it just says "holy place" in Hebrews 9:12. I would like to direct your attention to Leviticus 16:2 where God tells Moses to tell his brother Aaron not to "come into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat..." He's obviously referring to the Most Holy Place even though the King James says "holy." (Another place where it's talking about the high priest entering the Most Holy Place, but the King James Version says "holy place" is Hebrews 9:25. It's saying "every year" and what happened every year was the high priest going into the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement.) And, "Within the veil" always means the Most Holy Place in the King James Version. Also in Leviticus 16:2 it says: "...Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not; for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat." Now notice Hebrews 6:19,20 "Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that WITHIN THE VEIL; where the forerunner is for us ENTERED, even Jesus..." Love, Dianne I just don't understand how a person can explain and explain and explain for years and their relatives just NOT get it! How have your friends and relatives been reacting to you? | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 656 Registered: 8-2008 |
Dianne, they don't want to get it. I've recently had a similar experience with someone. They don't want to be wrong. They take pride in thinking they're right, and if they admitted they were wrong, their entire world would fall in on themselves. Everything they knew to be safe they would have to re-evaluate. They do not want to go through the sort of process all of us had to go through when we left. Sometimes that desire to not get it comes from a fear of losing friends or family or having difficulties or whatever. Jesus said whoever doesn't follow Him isn't worthy of Him. They simply judge what they have to be of greater value than Jesus is. In fact, Adventism teaches that keeping the Law is more important than having Jesus. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 700 Registered: 7-2000 |
One of the hardest lessons that I've had to learn in life is that you can't reason someone into believing any of the truths in the Bible. All you can do is show them what you see and believe, and leave the results up to God. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10914 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dianne, Loneviking is right. The time comes when we have to limit what we say because the other repeatedly tramples the truth. This is the tragic state of affairs that Jesus explains as not throwing your pearls before pigs. Your sister—in fact, unbelievers in general—are not "pigs". But the metaphor is important: you can't continue to offer up the most valuable treasure in all reality to someone who persistently tramples it. They build up more hardness and resistance the more we present it. God will give you opportunities to say and do what He wants said and done. But their hardness of heart is not because you haven't stated your case properly. You can entrust her to God. He is wooing her! Colleen | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 335 Registered: 4-2007 |
Their ‘don't WANT to be wrong’ is actually ‘CANNOT be wrong’, anything that impinges on the this is utterly ignored or reinterpreted (by the twisted ‘sister’). After three years on CARM I’ve concluded that entrenched Adventists are a lost cause. I downloaded some posters that were aimed at the emergent church but found many that applied to Adventists: TEXTS: Wonderful, bendable, highly amusing toys (picture a ‘Gumby’) POST-CRITICAL: I can’t hear you while your disagreeing with me. (Fingers in ears) UNITY: If you won’t accept my point of view, then it’s pretty obvious who the divisive one is. RELEVANCE: Tell me what I want to hear or shut up and go away. AUTHORITY: Everything other than my personal opinion is just someone else’s personal opinion. HUMILITY: I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve arrived at the truth about anything, but I’m pretty sur everything YOU say is not only dead wrong, but really, really stupid, too. STORIES: Myths we entertain our minds with so we can avoid nasty ‘modern’ categories like truth, reality, and divine revelation. IMAGINATION: It’s where leprechauns and unicorns come from. Why not doctrine, too? | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 838 Registered: 1-2003  |
Some of my thoughts this morning. I try to remember that it is not about me and how successful I am in winning others to HIM. It is about HIM and my allowing Him to use me to show His love to each person. My job description is not "convictor of the brethren" that is the job description of the Holy Spirit. I can only allow others to see the Holy Spirit working in my life and share what God reveals of Himself to me in Scripture. The Holy Spirit convicts others of His truth, not my finely crafted arguments. (and believe me I have some finely crafted ones  ) I sometimes lose sight of the fact that even those who believe a "false gospel" are His beloved children who He is wooing to Himself. I ask myself, what do my words say about my attitude toward them and how I see them. Do my thoughts and actions model that belief of how much He loves them? If they heard everything I said would I model that love toward them? I prayerfully ask God that they would. I am so blessed when I see the concern of many on FAF for their family and friends and how you want them to have the same joy and freedom that you have. Never give up in your willingness to be transparent and allow His light to shine through you. My journey has been most affected by the stories told by others and how God has become real in their life. It then made it "safe" to listen to the theological basis for what they were saying. Resting in Him, Richard . | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7899 Registered: 3-2004  |
In 2 Cor 3:14-17 it speaks of the veil over the face and ears. It is only removed by God. God removed that veil off each of us. In His time He will remove it from our loved ones. He is so awesome in how He does that. Diana L | ||
| Julieb Registered user Username: Julieb Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2010 |
Just this morning, during my private prayer and devotion time, I was praying for a friend of mine and her SDA minister husband, who had the unusual courage to actually ask me why I left the church sometime ago. She listened to what I had to say and seemed genuinely interested. I loaned her Sabbath in Christ and Cultic Doctrine and Ratzlaf's 4-cd set on his experience. I've seen them many times since but they've never mentioned any of the materials. Recently, I copied the EGW article from Proclamation and sent that to them. No answer. But somehow I believe the Holy Spirit is working on their hearts. Anyway, after I finished praying, I picked up my devotional pamphlet, Our Daily Bread, from RBC ministries and guess what today's reading was about! About how we are the ones to do the planting and the Holy Spirit does the watering and harvesting. That, once again, was a direct answer to my prayer. I will keep praying and let the Holy Spirit do what He does so well. Many years ago I published an article in the Adventist Review titled "Unanswered Prayer is an Oxymoron." While I'm not proud of having been that involved in SDAism to be writing for their paper, it is nevertheless true that God answers all of our prayers, one way or another, in His own time and in His own way. There are a lot of sincere people in that church who the Holy Spirit is working on. I can almost hear him saying, "Don't worry. I've got this." | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1165 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thank-you everyone for your responses. I don't know if my sister will soften towards the gospel in time or not - but the Holy Spirit has to be the one to do the work in her heart. All we can do is throw seeds out to people. She sent back two responses to what I wrote. In the first she didn't even seem to have read what I wrote. In the second, she said that she didn't want to "continue this discussion on Ellen White." Now I've heard of a person being saved BEFORE they left the Adventist church. But my sister thinks that in order to be forgiven, she has to ask each time. The Bible makes clear that the believer "has been saved" (Eph. 2:8,9; 2nd Tim. 1:9 and Titus 3:5). and that the believer's sins "are forgiven" (1st John 2:12). She believes Ellen White's "investigative judgment," so she cannot accept Jesus' FINISHED atonement and be saved. It makes me sad and frustrated. I was the same way though. No lasting assurance of salvation and only the Adventist "hope." I'm so grateful that God saved me!!! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1870 Registered: 4-2000  |
Music is a wonderful, universal language. It transcends all culture, ethnicity, race, politics, religion, and national origin. Please allow Marian Anderson to bless your soul in her classic rendition of the spiritual entitled "My Lord, What a Morning! When the stars begin to fall." What a morning that will be! By the way, it didn't happen in 1833 with a simple meteor shower in New England. We can fully trust the words from the lips of Jesus himself, in Matthew 24:29-31, as a future event (just before the Second Coming)when His elect will be gathered together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJoDR704-BA In awe and in anticipation of that morning, Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on February 06, 2010) | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 264 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you, Dennis for sharing this joy and encouragement...stunningly beautiful. |
