| Author |
Message |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3149
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 3:28 pm: |     |
Kent,
And notice that the Apostle Paul's wonderful conclusion is that nothing in all creation (that would include YOU!), and that nothing in the future (that would include YOU!) can separate you from Christ. 
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on February 13, 2010) |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 18
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 3:31 pm: | |
River,
My mind sometimes gets ahead of my fingers on the keyboard. In the future I will try to make sure my intentions are obvious. 
After reading the threads following the original post, I went back to the Bible and was led to read Romans. The Holy Spirit does not lie. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. I feel that the Holy Spirit wanted me to go read Romans.
River I have read back over this forum in the archives and see that you want nothing more than to help others. I value your opinion even though I don't know you. As a brother in Christ I should try to be more accepting of honest criticism. But as a sinner I find my self reacting with pride and resentment when faced with censure. 
I try to live through the Spirit, but find myself doing the opposite. I humbly ask your forgiveness for causing you pain. And be assured I hold no ill feelings!! 
Kent |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 4:07 pm: | |
Romans 8:28-31 (New International Version)
More Than Conquerors
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Ephesians 1:4-6 (New International Version)
4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[a] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Ephesians 1 (New International Version)
Ephesians 1
1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints in Ephesus,[a] the faithful[b] in Christ Jesus:
2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
I feel that it is fairly well stated that we are predestined. Would God predestine us then abandon us?? I think not!!
Skeeter, I take full responsibility for the direction this thread has gone. Please don't pull back because of something I got the ball rolling on!!!
I understand about the veil of SDA'ism. Just when you think you are getting it, something comes up and you go right back to the confusion created by the conflict of the Holy Spirits truth and the lie that is Adventism.
"This forum is my church family. I go into a stick church building once in a while but am afraid to commit myself to the point of actually "joining" one. Maybe someday... maybe not. I will just wait and see how the Lord leads."
Skeeter, this is my only church family also. I have now found a place to correspond with others of faith (in many different denominations) and you will not be easily rid of me. 
Kent |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 20
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 4:10 pm: | |
Unless of course you all want me gone. Then I'll gladly go and leave yall alone. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 519
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 4:35 pm: | |
Kent,
Of course we dont want you to leave!!!
We all need each other here.
We are brothers and sisters in Christ.
We be family ! :-)
Sometimes we disagree and argue, sometimes someone gets hurt when that was not the intent.
Just like a REAL family... huh ? :-> |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 5:19 pm: | |
Just so you all know where this Jack Gent article came from, here is the website: http://www.ex-sda.com/
I feel that he was right on the mark with some subjects, and way off on others.
The SDA'ism is still shinning through some of his writings.
kent |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1876
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 5:58 pm: | |
I think Dr. Jack Gent is now an Arminian Baptist (not sure though). Perhaps someone else will be more knowledgeable about him in regard to his religious affiliation. He has had a website for many years, and alot of his website's content is excellent. However, this is not an endorsement of his current, overall theology.
Dennis Fischer |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6007
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 6:12 pm: | |
Skeeter, now don't you go leave us, I look for your posts, you cheer me up.
Asetechrail,
I apologize for hanging you off a lamp post.
I didn't even know that sore spot was there, and I didn't know it had done that much damage neither. That took me totally by surprise.
Of course I forgive you, and I never want to force my opinion on anyone.
I also ask your forgiveness. Boy, that'll give the devil a hairlip!
If you just hang with us, and realize that there is a lot pain being worked through here.
Besides, the devil don't like us holding Faf meetings, so he works his way in here and gets everybody worked up. It happens every year.
It is such a blessing to meet with Faf'ers from time to time. I have met Mommamayi,and her husband, Phil and his wife, Bob and Jan, Gail, Handmaiden, Sondra, Dale and Carolyn Ratzlaff, Merwin Roades and his wife, and its quite something. It puts a face to the people on the forum. It is an unforgettable experience.
River |
Surfy
Registered user
Username: Surfy
Post Number: 626
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 8:45 pm: | |
Once saved, always saved? I think people fall into three camps. 1. Accept Jesus and later fall away and even denounce Him. 2. Accept Jesus and become lukewarm. 3. Accept Jesus and live a life on fire for Him.
Will people in groups 1 and 2 be saved? I am still on the fence but the ticket is to be in group 3 and then not worry about it.
Surfy |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1877
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 9:59 pm: | |
Truly, salvation is a very personal matter. In his classic book, Chosen by God, Dr. R. C. Sproul summarizes this topic very well:
quote:With respect to the assurance of salvation there are basically four kinds of people in the world. (1) There are people who are not saved who know that they are not saved. (2) There are people who are saved who do not know that they are saved. (3) There are people who are saved who know that they are saved. (4) There are people who are not saved who "know" that they are saved...The person who is not sure of his state of grace is exposed to doubts and terrors in his soul. He lacks an anchor for his spiritual life. His uncertainty makes him tentative in his walk with Christ.
It is the fourth category that causes the most confusion. False assurance stems chiefly from false understanding of what salvation requires and entails.
Dennis Fischer |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 522
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 10:36 pm: | |
I am not going anywhere River.
I just think sometimes it would be best for me to be still and listen and learn instead of posting what I happen to be thinking at the time and then going back later and realizing I shoulda just kept my mouth shut (or I guess on here it would be keep my fingers off the keyboard).
Skeeter |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6008
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 3:44 am: | |
Skeeter,
I have never failed to feel as if I shoulda just kept my mouth shut in the first place. I feel that I have never said a word on here that was useful to anybody.
If I did what I really feel like doing I would go back in my cave and just stay there.
Some people do that, they feel bad and just withdraw, and their voice is sadly missing and missed.
When they don't write, they are not helping themselves nor anybody else, thats just the nature of the living thing this forum is.
When you post your 'confusion' there are others that who think 'I am not alone, there are others who are struggling' with whatever they are struggling with. They realize there is a real warm and living human being out there who cares.
The truth is, we need each other, and we need each other to be real, not put on their theological 'uniform'.
True theology is not necessarily coming up with answers, true theology is being willing to struggle with the questions.
There are people who get all humped up over something said on this forum, so they go off and eat their worms, then the first thing you know they come back and say, 'I left the forum because'
The truth is they left the forum because they refused to engage. People like that never grow, they just stay all grunched up and go find someone else who is just as grunched up as they are. Then they get together and crow about how they are doing Gods high will. Look at me God I pray three times a week, blah blah.
Then there are people who come here and engage for a time, until one day God wants them to move on out, as Romero, I believe, said in one of his articles, the teacher should be willing to work himself out of a job, and thats what happens, we work ourselves out of a job.
In conclusion, as Dennis so aptly said about the four different kinds of people concerning salvation.
That works here.
There are people who are willing to engage.
There are people who refuse to engage.
There are people want to engage but don't.
There are people who think themselves above engaging.
Skeeter, I don't know about all the rest, but I want the same warm, fallible, real Skeeter that I have come to know and love.
River |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 523
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 8:38 am: | |
River,
Not fair to make a girl tear up on Valentines Day. LOL
I dont think the "teachers" on this forum will ever work themselves out of a job as long as they are willing to do the work. There are just too many coming out of SDA who need this forum. Where else would we go ?
I have visited other sites but this is the only one I visit on a regular basis , usually several times a day to see what everyone is doing. The people on here are REAL. Not just a place to read facts.
Some of the other sites have good information for learning about the errors of Adventism , but after reading on there day after day I was getting so depressed ,,,, I needed to hear some GOOD news. I still refer back to those other sites once in a while when I have a question about something, but even though they have the truth about Adventism I cant take that much negativity on a regular basis anymore.
I now know enough about the errors that I know I could never go back, but I dont think I need to know every detaill about every error... that is just too depressing. (I am just speaking for myself)
It's like, ok, I know I left a false system, NOW what ?
That is where THIS forum comes in.We dont JUST read negative statements, but we also get to interact with other's who are having the same questions and struggles, AND finding answers.
Learn what they are learning, and give praise and thanks to God for the GOOD things that are happening in our lives.
This is where my friends are, my "family".
Like a sign I have read somewhere says "Friends are the family you get to choose yourself". Or in this case I feel, chosen for me by God.
Skeeter |
Rider
Registered user
Username: Rider
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 12:12 pm: | |
River,
Don't go back in your cave. You have helped me stay focused on Christ and I'm sure their are many others that feel the same. Stay out of your cave and keep speaking honestly.
It is so easy, when you grow up in the system, to start looking back to Adventism when doubts crownd in.
Rider |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 637
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 3:09 pm: | |
I just love it when my brothers and sisters kiss and make up |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 272
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 12:57 am: | |
Don't anybody leave and go anywhere to hide!
It was in my former church that I couldn't ask hard questions/discuss. Here we have something different--being real, asking about stuff we don't get yet, etc.
I read an article from a past issue of 'Proclamation' that helped me immensely--if you have not read it, it's a must. It put together so many things that pop up in my mind at times. It helped me feel less crazy about this process of leaving a toxic church. It's in Nov/Dec 2005: 'How to Leave a Church & Survive the Wilderness' by J. LeBron McBride. If I hadn't read it before maybe some of the rest of you haven't, either.
I feel so blessed to have interaction with everybody on this forum--River, as a non-former you add stuff we need! And you are right that FAF weekend really ticks off the enemy. A new realization for me this year is that some discouraging things happen to people involved with helping out, things that cost money, time and cause emotional pain. It didn't stop anyone, though! |
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