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Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10861
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 6:22 pm: |     |
I perceive the action of "putting on" to be submission and surrender to the truth that each piece of armor IS. When we accept the righteousness of God, that FACT protects our hearts when Satan attacks us. The helmet of salvation protects our minds when we're assailed with doubts. We are affirmed in our sonship by the Spirit Himself; when we're confronted with doubt and fear, the truth that we are saved and that our helmet is God Himself, we can plant ourselves firmly in truth even when our hearts quiver. We can KNOW God won't trick us.
And so on...
Gotta go to FAF Bible study...
Colleen |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 968
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:04 pm: | |
My two cents worth:
Well, maybe I'll up that since I'm out of work. Hmmm ... the price of inflation might even bring it up to a nickel 
It is inevitable that we will come under difficulty and trials. Jesus clearly tells us we will. So to think we can "do" something to get away untouched is a misnomer. And if someone figured out the "fix" we'd all learn the steps so we wouldn't get "bloodied".
I find it interesting that right after the passage on the armor is this:
quote:Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. (Eph. 6:11-12; NIV)
I can only tell you what I'm finding out for myself. Satan desires to devour us and cut us off from the help we need. Kinda like a wolf cutting a sheep out of the pack. With the sheep away from the other sheep it is more vulnerable.
When we are tempted to isolate ourselves from those who are born-again and can support us - we need to realize we are under spiritual attack.
We've been talking about caves and spiritual warfare and pity parties and that is what the devil would most like us to do ... hide ourselves in a cave away from the help and support we need.
I think of 1 Cor. 12 where Paul says we are a part of the body and also we are all given gifts for the common good. (1 Cor. 12:7) And the greatest spiritual gift of all is love (1 Cor. 13). Paul says:
quote:And now I will show you the most excellent way. If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal .... etc.
And what about the scripture text:
quote:Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. (James 5:13-16; NASB)
I wonder about this James passage ... it mentions suffering and suffering comes in many forms - including spiritual .... confessing we need help from our fellow believers - that we need prayer is a humbling act. But I think it is one of the most powerful things a Christian can do ... seek help. We must humble ourselves in the realization that we need God and we need each other. Pride flies out the window ... and I think sometimes the devil goes with it ...
We are a body ... the body of Christ ... I'm a slow learner, but self-pity is usually done in isolation ... spiritual warfare is usually experienced in isolation - not always, but usually.
My nickel's worth ... Your going to get hit no matter what ... standing in armor means you are probably getting jousted. You will feel pain, but you don't have to go down for the count - you can stand up under it. Secondly, we are a body and a wolf desires to tear us away from each other ... but when one hurts, we all hurt.
And it always facinates me what James wrote ... confess to one another ... we are to humble ourselves and ask for help - but what is the result ... "healed".
Can I raise the anty ... how about a dime ? Ok, maybe only a penny.
Keri
P.S. I had a friend tell me recently about a huge spiritual battle she had been fighting. It had to deal with her husband. Didn't like him much and couldn't get out of that "attitude". She struggled for months. Finally, she mentioned it to a friend and asked the friend to pray. The blackness lifted and she actually liked him again. And I remember her saying ... and I'm a leader ... And she is a very, very, solid Christian. No matter how solid - you're gonna get hit. Don't suffer alone - so that you can be "healed". Indeed, choose those you share with carefully ... |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 9:16 pm: | |
Keri,
I am going to meet you in a few weeks. I'll have a nickel with me.
P.S.
I read Saturday's commentary and enjoyed what you had to say.
Fearless Phil |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5903
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 1:12 am: | |
Since you are unemployed, here's a quarter. (By the way, God is your new employer, and he'll pay you whatever he sees fit)I get the 'calling on', I also get having done all to stand, I just don't get how the how too 'then stand'.
I already know I am going to get jousted, although I can't say a enjoy it very much, I ain't complaining, but I just don't believe its Gods will for me to end up like a dead buzzard, having to be bailed out. I agree its humbling and I agree there is no greater power, than to humble oneself before almighty God, and to seek help from our brothers and sisters, I do that (eventually)but as Phil aptly pointed out, it is in the power of his might, not ours.
This 'armor' that Paul talks about don't appear to me like someone who is down for the count and having to call for help. The problem is, I get cut out of the herd every time. I am admitting that, But there is something here in this passage that I just can't seem to put into practical application.
I don't think it's inevitable that I got to end up like a dead skunk in the middle of the road, having some other Christian coming around giving me mouth to mouth.
The Christian is liable to say, "Lord, by this time, he stinketh!"
River |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 969
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 9:44 am: | |
Phil,
You have a buffalo head nickel - those are rare? (ha!) Can't wait to see you - saving a hug just for you - hope that is ok? I remember how you spent a "day" on the forum with me as I wrestled with the concept of hell. Remember that? I'd write, you'd respond, I'd write, You'd respond, Jeremy would jump in ... I remember how fruitful that dialogue was for me.
Thanks for the encouragement about Saturday's commentary. I have 3 more to write .
River,
I'll take the quarter . Actually, God is so gracious to me ... He provides in ways I never expect.
I think I get what you are saying River. I think what you mentioned about migraines and how the doctor told you to do some things at the onset of one - that was helpful. In other words when you get the "calling on" it would be wise to go early to trusted friends to pray for you. Not wait until you are on the ground flattened. I don't want you on the ground flattened, but I don't always know when that might be happening. Yet, I'm more than glad to pray when you are there or headed there.
Yet, hmmm ... might God be teaching something here, too ... that it is ok for a fellow Christian to see us on the ground ... I think of my friend who wrestled many, many months with this difficult time with her hubby ... just didn't like anything he did - and she knew it was spiritual warfare ... but finally, she went to a friend and said, "I need prayer and this is what is happening." She said the wrestling in her mind eased and then stopped. She felt foolish, because she just couldn't get rid of the thing on her own. To me - it is God's providence that she didn't get rid of it so easily on her own ... it keeps her humble ... and realizing that even though she is a mature, stable Christian ... she, too, needs spiritual help at times.
I'll go back to the passage about the armor and see if anything pops out at me.
Keri |
8thday
Registered user
Username: 8thday
Post Number: 1449
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 10:43 am: | |
I can't tell you how many dark clouds have vanished just by confessing my problem and having someone pray. It's amazing sometimes. Other times.. there is more of a struggle.
I love all the input here! I agree that the armor is truth. Renewing our minds in the truth daily - so important. Also the imagery Paul uses for it is from the OT. Interesting to run across a couple passages recently in the Prophets. Don't remember now where - but very similar.
Last night I was reading (it was not planned) in Nehemiah. I was astounded at the parallels there to spiritual war, and paired it up with Eph. 6.
I can share some of it - but this isn't all.
1 - The minute you start to "build" in God's kingdom, opposition is guaranteed. (see it in Ezra too)
2 - There are levels of opposition, and the more success you have, the attacks intensify and become more deceptive - moving on from sheer force to trickery. Many methods there.
3 - The war was won as a team - some workers - some guarding (intercessors?) - taking turns.
4 - everyone remained fully clothed around the clock, even while sleeping (readiness) and worked with a tool in one hand and sword in the other.
5 - Even though work teams were separated by distance on the wall - a method of communication when they needed to rally to a point of attack was devised - a horn blast.
I see the armor (truth yes) as being not only an individual thing - but a collective function also - that we are absolutely not meant to war this alone. I'm sure countless sermons have been preached on that analogy, but just wanted to share it. So cool! Paul in Eph. links prayer immediately with the armor passage. I think that's key.
Sondra |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5907
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 2:29 pm: | |
Keri and Sondra, you both may be on to something here. |
Dt
Registered user
Username: Dt
Post Number: 122
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 1:05 pm: | |
I came to this discussion just today, so if you don't mind I would like to address Cordurb about the original subject matter, clean and unclean meats.
1. In discussing Mark and his saying Jesus declared all things clean, I was taught in SDA schools that the gospels were not written right away, so Mark's understanding of Jesus' pronouncement would not have been applied until after Jesus had died and the disciples had a chance to "digest" what He had told them. Therefore, Peter's vision and consequent actions would not have been a contradiction in any way.
2. I wish I could find the link but I was reading about 2 studies that had been conducted on getting all of the blood out of meat (specifically red meat). They concluded that it was almost impossible to get every last molecule of blood out of the meat. So, we can either conclude that the common understanding and practice of draining the carcass prior to butchering was sufficient or that God was setting us and the Israelites up to fail.
Many civilizations, even today, make a practice of drinking and making dishes out of the blood.
3. In Francis Nichols book defending Ellen White, which can be read online at the White Estate website, he makes it clear that SDA's definitely DO NOT believe that we are under the clean/unclean dietary laws, rather these are observed strictly for health reasons. Very few SDA's really believe this and will defend the clean/unclean on the spiritual basis rather than the health basis.
For example, during Sabbath School one time the subject of starving during the time of trouble came up. Most were of the opinion that they would rather accept death than eat of the "unclean" meat. Rather severe/confusing for a belief based strictly on health, wouldn't you say? Dying is better for your health than surviving by eating a ham sandwich? Huh?
The SDA confusion over clean and unclean is compounded by the confusing and contradictory messages they receive from Sabbath School lessons, teachers, pastors, SDA books etc.
We were all under the same bondage until we let Scripture speak for itself. SDA's will engage in double-speak all day long and not see any contradiction or dishonesty in it. If you don't believe this, simply ask them if EGW was a prophet and watch the word games begin based upon your respose.
Most former SDA's that I know still refuse to eat the unclean meats. Those that grew up vegetarian still refuse to eat meat, using many of the same reasons the meat-eaters do to stay away from unclean meats.
Your wife will believe what the Bible says when she finally decides to believe it is the Word of God and requires no interpreters.
God Bless |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10870
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 1:38 pm: | |
Dt, you're right. Many former SDAs still refuse to eat unclean meats--or meat at all if they were previously vegetarians. Richard was definitely in this category.
It wasn't until Elizabeth Inrig, our pastor's wife, challenged him before our first FAF weekend when she was discussing the weekend's menu, that he realized he couldn't pass off his aversion to meat by saying, "Pray for me!"
She told him, "Richard, it's a choice. You have to decide to eat a little bit on a regular basis, and gradually increase it."
When she said she'd call him and hold him accountable (!), he finally acknowledged that overcoming the aversion was an issue of faith—trust in Jesus—and not just "taste". His head knew it was OK to eat meat, but he couldn't overcome the deep aversion to it.
Aversions, BTW, are the flip side of addictions. Addictions are compulsive indulgences in something one craves, cannot resist, and it eventually cripples one. Aversions are avoidances of something with the same deep compulsion as that which drives addictions.
Richard finally admitted to himself it was an issue of surrender and prayer. He finally surrendered his hold on his distaste for the idea of meat, and He asked God to help him eat it.
God was faithful; it was really hard for Richard when he ate his first chicken breast after tasting bites from mine for a few weeks; he thought he would vomit it back up. But he didn't, and he finally realized it tasted better than the Boca Burger ever did!
He can now eat ANY meat. Overcoming the aversion to meat opened up ALL meat to him.
Ultimately, the persistent inability to eat meat, even a little, is an issue of trust. All our compulsions ultimately are spiritual issues; do we trust Jesus enough to act on what His word says?
He IS enough!
Colleen |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 496
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 4:43 pm: | |
As a SDA I would not think of eating pork.. but let someone hand me a cookie or a candy bar and I sure didnt refuse that...
I know so many SDA's who claim they abstain from pork, shellfish, etc for "health" reasons.. but every SDA potluck I ever attended had a few healthy options (salads, veggies, etc.) plus lots of casseroles swimming in cheese. REAL cheese... and the dessert table was always full of cookies, cakes, pies, etc.
My SDA son in law is from a very "traditional" SDA family (they are in reality a bit nuts)
They dont eat meat, but for the most part are not a healthy bunch at all.. one day Darren was here for dinner and was complaining that he has a lot of digestive problems...when my (not SDA) 97 year old Mom told him his problem was his diet and he needed to eat some meat !
I dont think there is anything wrong with being a vegetarian.. but if youre gonna do it for "health" reasons, then ya need to leave alone all the non meat things that are bad for your health too.
The first time I cooked and ate a pork chop in over 40 years I thought I was gonna loose it.. so I just took a couple small bites and tried not to think of what I was eating.
Christmas we had a turkey and a spiral honey baked ham and I didnt think twice about eating some of it and even leftovers on a sandwich the next day. I will eat, but dont care for pork bacon, I prefer the taste of Louis Rich turkey bacon. (other brands are gross!)
I still dont eat shellfish, not because I think it is wrong, but because I just dont care for seafood (except Halibut).
I dont drink wine, not because I think it is wrong, but because I dont like it. and I see no reason to try and train myself to like something that I know I am better off without anyway.
Give me plain old Welches grape juice any day :-)
I am craving a Milky Way ! :-)
Francie |
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