| Author |
Message |
Foofighter
Registered user
Username: Foofighter
Post Number: 105
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 7:33 am: |     |
Lucybugg,
I think the words, "mark of the beast", or "deceived" might come to mind, if they are like most SDA's I know. The Sabbath is everything to them. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5895
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 7:35 am: | |
They would think the same thing they think now, you have 'left the truth' therefore you are an infidel.
Looking into an Adventist mind is like looking into a room and expecting to find a party going on, you open the door, and the room is empty, and there ain't a thing happening.
I had rather seek the wisdom of a dead possum as an Adventist.
 River |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 324
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 9:47 am: | |
Fanatical Sabbatarians (a deliberate redundancy) have so focused on the ‘when’ they have excluded the ‘WHO’ and the ‘why’, which is why they totally fail to grasp the ‘why’ we go to church on Sunday (to corporately worship and praise God for his marvelous saving grace).
For them ‘the Sabbath’ IS the ‘who’ and ‘why’, it has become a Holy Object which they worship, which is why any discussion degenerates into their ‘when’, their only focus.
It is their god.
They are made righteous by ‘keeping’ it, they are sealed by it (replacing the sealing by the Holy Spirit) and are saved by it (Jesus is great, but WE have so much more).
Their ‘when’, The Sabbath, is their ‘Raison d'être’, their reason to be.
John Douglas |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 325
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 9:59 am: | |
'John, I think you were borned with a neat sense of humor :-) River'
Well, I think I'm normal but my wife of some 40+ years has concluded that I'm decidedly warped, I just get strange looks from everyone else.
John |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 326
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:10 am: | |
'Thank God I can worship God any day and not the day itself. Diana L'
A BIG AMEN to that!!
John |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 327
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:17 am: | |
"John I'm fascinated! I think there a couple of those in my family. One in particular loves to share all the miracles that happen as a result of him "keeping" Sabbath. Don't know what we would do without him. :-) Leigh Anne"
That and all the 'miracles' that happen when you're a faithful tithe payer (reluctant or not)
John |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10854
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 8:28 pm: | |
Ha!
You're totally right, John--the Sabbath is a god. As an Adventist, I would have been highly offended by that statement and thought the other person was shallow and ignorant.
I realize, though, that if we make anything eternally important besides God, we've made a new god. It's like the golden calves of the Canaanites. They were not actually the Canaanite deities; they represented the power and authority of the deities and usually were pictured or carved with the deities riding on top of the calves.
The apostate Israelites began using calves in their Yaweh worship when the northern kingdom set up worship centers at Dan and Bethel. They never called the calves "Yaweh" or any god, and they used the calves without any god pictured on top. They always said they were worshiping the true God, and they maintained the true God was invisible. Yet the calves, riderless, were used in the same ways the Canaanites used them: to represent the power and authority of the invisible Yaweh.
Yet God condemned this use of the calves as idolatry.
Adventists have made Sabbath into a "golden calf". They would never call it a god, yet they believe Sabbath is the sign of God and represents the true worship of God. Sabbath "carries" the "Adventist God".
This love of Sabbath is idolatry.
Colleen |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:04 pm: | |
I told one fellow at work (he "keeps" the Sabbath - and I think he "keeps" all the other Sabbaths as well: the yearly/seasonal and New Moon, as well as the weekly); that his feeling that he needs to observe the day is like seeing Jesus and running up to Him - but instead of embracing Jesus, he falls to the ground and tries to embrace Jesus' shadow. Colossians 2:16,17 clearly points out that the food, drink, and all the different Sabbaths (yearly/seasonal, monthly and weekly) are shadows. The whole New Testament (new covenant) makes this clear. |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 328
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 6:11 am: | |
Here I am, sounding like a broken record – again and again and again…
As long as people refuse to believe they are sinful by nature and absolutely helpless to DO anything about it, the only solution, faith in Jesus, will always take second place. He is replaced with faith in “Do Do Do, Cockle Doodle Do”.
The concept that salvation is dependent on justification + sanctification - Grace + works – (“if it’s going to be, it’s up to ME ME ME”) is an oxymoron, works righteousness nullifies Grace. The ‘I must do’ rather than ‘I respond’ (trusting the inward working of God the Holy Spirit) is unbelief. While Adventist theology has taken this to ridiculous extremes, the refusal to accept sinfulness, and adopting the resulting concept that we can earn our salvation, is pretty near universal in Christiandom.
The Bible is not about me, It’s about God and his love for us – ALL of us.
The Gospel is not about me, it’s about Jesus and what He has already done for me.
Believe THAT and be saved.
Saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone
John |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 624
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 4:30 am: | |
Asurprise.....Awesome Analogy!! |
Papajsr
Registered user
Username: Papajsr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 6:18 am: | |
Hi all,I am a new arrival on this site. I must say that I was not ready for the dismissal of Sabbath keeping. As a former Adventist I expected a lot of EGW writings to be put into question but isn't the observance of the Sabbath recognizing the Creator? Are all the commandments set aside or just the 4th one? papaj |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5909
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 7:59 am: | |
Welcome to the forum. Just make yourself to home, pull up a monitor and set a spell.
River |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 8:43 am: | |
Papajsr,
Welcome to the forum. As you might guess, your questions concerning the Sabbath are ones virtually all of us who are former SDA confront and delve into here on the forum. When folks wake up and start responding to your questions, we will be flooding you with scripture, so I will just make a few observations for starters.
• The Sabbath was given to Israel as a sign of the covenant God made with them. It wasn’t given prior to the ‘giving of the law’ on Mt Sinai.
• The Sabbath was given as a day of rest. As such, it commemorated their escape from slavery in Egypt.
• The Sabbath is not and never was a day of worship.
• When Jesus Christ fulfilled the requirements of the “law”, he became our Sabbath Rest. It is no longer about a certain day.
• Our rest is in the salvation of Jesus Christ. Our rest is “Today”. It is not about a day.
• The book of Hebrews is an excellent place to begin your study of this topic. When you do, keep in mind that the most holy place, and only place, is at the side of God the Father. Notice that Jesus was seated at the side of the Father almost two thousand years ago. The year 1844 is nothing and means nothing. Members of the Body of Christ have been at rest all that time.
Fearless Phil |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 1:01 pm: | |
Papaj, welcome!
Keep asking the Lord to show you the truth and He will.
Phil, good points. I'd like to point out one thing though...
actually God gave Israel the Sabbath during the second month after they had left Egypt - see Exodus 16:1 and verses 23-29 where it details how God gave them the Sabbath at the giving of the manna. Israel arrived at Sinai in the third month after they had left Egypt, (Exodus 19:1) so it must have been at least two weeks or so between Israel getting the Sabbath and the formal giving of the law at Sinai.
Again, welcome Papaj! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7859
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 1:06 pm: | |
Welcom to FAF PapaJ. Glad you are here.
Diana L |
Bobalou
Registered user
Username: Bobalou
Post Number: 67
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 1:15 pm: | |
Those who insist that Christians are required to observe the OC, given only to the Israelites, Sabbath still have one leg in Moses Law (Torah). In the book of Hebrews we find this revealing passage:
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Why would anyone want to go back under the OC requirements when we have Jesus mediating a New and better one? There is absolutely no instructions or requirements for keeping any day Holy in the New Testament.
Col. 2 calls the Sabbath along with other OC requirements a shadow. Our reality is Jesus. We rest in Him.
Best wishes as you continue to learn the truths that will set you free. |
Papajsr
Registered user
Username: Papajsr
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 3:45 pm: | |
I thought I posted but something must have malfunctioned. Again I say thanks for the welcomes. I want to know the consensus on EGW and her claim as a prophet. She is the major architect of the Adventist faith and as a former member I believe she had some insights but also she had some real questionable ideas concerning the character of God. I would suppose that the character of the Father and Son were one and the same in purpose. papaj |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7861
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 4:49 pm: | |
Papajsr, EGW is one the reasons I left adventism. During the Christmas season of 2003 one of the adventist ministers, where I attended church, challenged the SS class to read the NT without anything else. I took him up on that challenge and began reading the NT on Jan 1, 2004. Within that same time frame God brought my attention to a bookmark on my computer that I had forgotten about. It was the D. Anderson's website about EGW. I read all about her plagiarism and having others write for her and then her writing about "God showed her, an angel showed her, etc.". When I finished reading that website I spoke out loud saying, "I cannot go back to that church. She has had to much influence on its doctrines". As soon as those words were out of my mouth I felt a burden lifted off my shoulders, that I did not know was there. I believe she is a false prophet.
I cannot treat her simply as another religious writer because she said God told her or inspired her. Therefore I threw away all her books. I did not want them in my house.
Diana L |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 670
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 12:19 pm: | |
Welcome Papaj,
I am so glad you have come to join us. I was not raised in the church but later joined. Actually as a child I was raised as a protestant and those teachings stayed in the back of my mind. The one that really stuck was than no-ones writings are above God's word and should be taken as written so I did not believe in egw so I left for 20yrs but was drawn back because of the sabbath and stayed 10yrs and during that time I delved in and read egw and just shook my head. Also I knew that the sda did not really like the book of Galatians so I did a study of the book and Hebrews and God used them to hit me between the eyes and get the heck out of there.
Do I regret leaving absolutely not only the 30yrs I stayed. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10867
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 3:19 pm: | |
Welcome, Papajsr! We're really glad you've joined us! Your questions are exactly the same ones all of us have had. This process of questioning, working out what is real, and learning to trust the Lord Jesus is intense and difficult and exhilarating and rewarding. We are so happy you've joined us, and we look forward to sharing this walk with you.
First, the Sabbath question really is addressed in a surprising way in Hebrews and Galatians. If you're anything like me and many of us, however, reading Hebrews may feel confusing because we were taught that it meant certain things, and it takes some time, Bible study, and prayer, to begin to read the words with their plain meanings and accept them at face value.
I'll just give you a link to an article that might help you see where we're coming from, how the new covenant is the replacement of the old covenant because Jesus is the fulfillment of the whole old covenant. It is the cover story here: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2005_MayJun.pdf
As for EGW—I finally had to realize that a woman who claimed to speak for God, saying God showed her or His angel showed her the things she said, could not be telling the truth when she directly contradicts the Bible and says things that are untrue about God and Jesus.
The in-house rationale that her writings showed "progressive revelation", that she became more "gospel-oriented" as she aged, is likewise not true. First, progressive revelation cannot begin in error and progress to truth. By definition, "revelation" from God must ALWAYS be truth. Progressive revelation is what we see when we look at the OT and then see the NT: God progressively revealed Himself. Not one thing He ever revealed about Himself was false. His early revelations did not need correcting. Progressive revelation begins in truth and ends in truth.
When I stopped and thought about the implications of EGW saying that God held His hand over William Miller's mistake in the 1843 prophecy, allowing people to believe the date was 1843 so that they would get ready for Him to come, I realized she was blaspheming God.
Paul says, in Titus 1:2, "…which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago…"
For EGW to suggest that God deceived people for an ulterior motive--even a GOOD ulterior motive--is to say God lied. He would never do that. He would never trick people or deceive them or otherwise manipulate them falsely.
I remember realizing that I could not excuse her. She existed as God's messenger; her writings and claims were always that through her, God gave the insights needed for the last days.
No true prophet of God, however, would ever suggest that God deceived or lied. I could not even consider her a valid "devotional writer"; no one who knows Jesus would ever say that God lied.
I had no choice but call her a false prophet. She was not just "not a prophet" because she definitely functioned in a prophetic role, and she definitely did have some sorts of para-normal experiences and visions/dreams. She spoke for God—but she spoke falsely. The Bible identifies such people as false prophets.
If Scripture is the word of God, then we have to accept its definitions of reality. It was deeply jolting to realize these things re: EGW, but it completely freed me to read the Bible without rationalizing. It was an amazing release from confusion and fear!
Colleen |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 971
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 8:15 pm: | |
Welcome Papaj! Glad you are here. I thought of something to add to what has already been said.
You wrote, "I would suppose that the character of the Father and Son were one and the same in purpose."
Actually, it is more than the Father and Son were one and the same in purpose and character. The Son is God. Jesus is God. It is more than the same in purpose and character.
quote:If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:7; NASB)
quote:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
quote:but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor. 1:24; NASB)
There are more verses and I'm sure some others can add to these. You see Jesus is more than the same in purpose and character. Jesus is God. Orthodox Christianity believes in One God - represented by three distinct persons, God the Father, God the Son, the Holy Spirit. One God. It is a mind bender, but there is only one God and He came down and died for us. |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 8:16 pm: | |
Papajsr Welcome!!!
I too am a newbie here on this site. I don't have a great writing style or all the answers, so will just post something found on the net. This writer says it all rather well about EGW.
What Harm Has Been
Done?
What constitutes the Everlasting Gospel?
Does the Bible leave any leeway
for changes or alterations?
Are there Scriptural warnings to
anyone who might attempt
to do this?
What does the Bible say about it?
Scriptural presentation
by
Jack Gent
NIV If unlisted.
Emphasis Supplied.
1998 -- All rights reserved.
Feel free to download this booklet
to print copies to share with others.
(Do give proper credit, though,
to the author.)
What Harm Has Been Done?
The gospel is the answer to the most important question that any inhabitant of the earth can ask: "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus himself gave the perfect, brief, but complete answer to that question:
John 3:16 -- For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The only righteousness by which we can stand before God in the judgment is the righteousness of Jesus Christ. The historical fact of His sinless life, His death and resurrection constitutes this "righteousness of God." This and this alone is the good news of the gospel which is proclaimed as a free gift to every sinner. By hearing this gospel we learn that Christ's perfect obedience to the claims of the law and by His death its claims for our condemnation, as sinners, was fully satisfied. It was all done in our name and on our behalf just as if we had done it ourselves. This is the justification that we receive by faith alone when we receive Christ as our Savior.
This is the gospel, pure and simple. It is a historical event that is completed and can never be repeated. Nothing can be added to it and declared to be the gospel. Paul in his letter to the Romans describes the gospel. I like J. B. Phillip's translation, but they all say the same thing:
Rom. 10:9,10 -- It is this word that is the burden of our preaching, and it says, in effect, "If you openly admit by your own lips that Jesus is the Lord, and if you believe in your own heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
For it is believing in the heart that makes a man righteous before God, and it is stating his belief by his own lips that confirms his salvation.
Paul also describes the gospel in his letter to the Corinthians. Note how, in each of his descriptions, they are in full harmony with Jesus' statement in John 3:16.
I Cor15:1-4 -- Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised the third day according to the Scriptures.
In the book of Acts we find Paul given the opportunity to answer that most important question. This occurred when Paul and Silas were beaten and placed in prison with their legs in stocks. That night there was an earthquake which caused every prisoner's shackles to come off and the prison doors to open:
Acts 16:27-34 -- The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped.
But Paul shouted "Don't harm yourself! We are all here!"
The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved -- you and your household..."
The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God -- he and his whole family.
From these passages we can be assured that if anyone or any church group preaches that we must fulfill conditions other than stated above, they are not preaching the gospel as preached by Paul. These are not preaching the gospel but a perversion of the gospel. A legalistic scenario masquerading as the gospel.
Have we been given permission by our church founders to study our doctrines in comparison with the Bible with someone who disagrees with our position? Notice the counsel as penned by our most influential founder:
Do not read the word in the light of former opinions; but, with a mind free from prejudice, search it carefully and prayerfully. If as you read, conviction comes, and you see that your cherished opinions are not in harmony with the word, do not try to make the word fit your opinions. Make your opinions fit the word. Do not allow what you have believed or practiced in the past to control your understanding.
Messages to Young People, pg. 260
When a message comes in the name of the Lord to His people, no one may excuse himself from an investigation of its claims. No one can afford to stand back in an attitude of indifference and self confidence, and say; "I know what is truth. I am satisfied with my position. I have set my stakes and I will not be moved away from my position, whatever may come."
Counsels on Sabbath School
Work, pg. 28
No one should claim that he has all the light there is for God's people. The Lord will not tolerate this. He has said, "I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." Even if all our leading men should refuse light and truth, that door will remain open. The Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time...
Suppose a brother held a view that differed from yours, and he should come to you proposing that you sit down with him and make an investigation of that point in the Scriptures; should you rise up, filled with prejudice, and condemn his ideas while refusing to give him a candid hearing?
The only right way would be to sit down as Christians, and investigate the position, in the light of God's word, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true.
If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time we knew it. There must be no spirit of Phariseeism cherished among us.
Gospel Workers, pg. 127
From these statements I believe we not only have permission but a mandate in our '"inspired" church writings to check with the Scriptures whether these things be so. It is with this mandate that I proceed to discover if our doctrine of the gospel is Scriptural.
In discussing with Adventist ministers and members about the contradictions of Ellen White with the Bible, and when this evidence gets to the overwhelming stage, they come back with the common counter; "But what harm has been done?" This is the answer given by the Mormons, the Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses. All claim that their extra biblical teachings are on the same, or stronger, footing than the Bible, and call everyone to a higher and more holy calling.
In this study I would like to take some writings of Ellen White, who is designated by her church as "The Spirit of Prophecy," and I would like to show that the gospel, as the Bible presents it, has never been preached and approved by the Adventist Church. If this is true, then the harm produced has been immense indeed.
No man can rightly present the law of God without the gospel, or the gospel without the law. The law is the gospel embodied and the gospel is the law enfolded. The law is the root, the gospel is the fragrant blossom of fruit which it bears.
Christ's Object Lessons, pg. 128
Only a person totally unacquainted with the gospel could make this statement. From the time the Israelites were redeemed from their slavery in Egypt until the time of the cross they were held in slavery to the law. The law had sentenced them to the death penalty as they had all sinned by breaking the law. The penalty for this crime was death. At the cross Christ brought an end to this ministry which brought death, and introduced the gospel -- the ministry which brought righteousness and life. The fruit of the law was not the gospel but wrath and death.
Rom. 10:1-4 -- Brothers, my hearts desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Rom. 4:13-15 -- It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath.
And where there is no law there is no trans- gression
2 Cor. 3:7-11 -- Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, (the ten commandments for certain) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness
And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts.
The purpose of the law was to convict everyone that they were sinners in need of a Savior. The more the sinner felt that he could meet all of God's requirements in his own strength, the less he felt the need of a Savior. This is the basis for every legalistic religious belief.
The ethics of the gospel acknowledge no standard but the perfection of the divine character...
Character building is the work, not of a day, nor of a year, but of a lifetime. The struggle for conquest over self,{ for holiness and heaven, is a lifelong struggle. Without continual effort and constant activity, there can be no advancement in the divine life, no attainment of the victor's crown.
The strongest evidence of man's fall from a higher state is the fact that it costs so much to return. The way of return can be gained only by hard fighting, inch by inch, hour by hour. In one moment, by a hasty unguarded act, we may place ourselves in the power of evil; but it requires more than a moment to break the fetters and attain to a holier life. The purpose may be formed, the work begun; but its accomplishment will require toil, time, perseverance, patience and sacrifice... should we come to the close of life with our work undone, it would be an eternal loss.
No one will be borne upward without stern, persevering effort in his own behalf. All must engage in this warfare for themselves; no one else can fight our battles. Individually we are responsible for the issues of the struggle.
Ministry of Healing, pp. 451-453
The first sentence of this quotation is a true statement and ought to be sufficient to convince anyone of the impossibility of our ever being able to accomplish this. "The ethics of the gospel acknowledge no standard but the perfection of the divine character." This is true and I'm so glad that this is included in Christ's robe of righteousness which every born again Christian is given freely when he accepts Christ as his Savior.
That which follows this statement consists of a long and tortuous list of things which we must do to earn this perfect character. Does anyone really believe that we can do this? Anyone who truly believes this must have a complete misconception of our character in comparison to God's character.
Every sentence of this long passage cries for pages of response and refutation. Perhaps it is enough to compare this with the multitude of Scriptures which contradict most every point.
The sanitariums which are established are to be closely and inseparably bound up with the gospel. The Lord has given instruction that the gospel is to be carried forward; and the gospel includes health reform in all its phases. Health reform is to stand out more prominently in the proclamation of the third angel's message...
The gospel of health is to be firmly linked with the ministry of the Word. It is the Lord's design that the restoring influence of health reform shall be a part of the last great effort to proclaim the gospel message...
Under the influence of the gospel, great reforms will be made by medical missionary work. But separate medical missionary work from the gospel, and the work will be crippled.
Counsels on Diet and Foods, pg. 75
Do you know of one text in the Bible that states that health reform is any part of the great good news of the gospel? If God has given instruction that this is so, why didn't He reveal this to Paul whom He called to present to the world the unchangeable gospel of Christ?
Medical missionary work is in no case to be divorced from the gospel ministry. The Lord has specified that the two shall be as closely connected as the arm is with the body. Without this union neither part of the work is complete. The medical missionary work is the gospel in illustration.
6 Testimonies, pg. 240
There may be and there is danger of losing sight of the great principle of truth when doing the work for the poor that is right to do, but we are ever to bear in mind that in carrying forward this work the spiritual necessities of the soul are to be kept prominent. In our efforts to relieve temporal necessities we are in danger of separating from the last gospel message its leading and most urgent features...
Because of the ever increasing opportunities for ministering to the temporal needs of all classes, there is danger that this work will eclipse the message that God has given us to bear in every city. The proclamation of the soon coming of Christ. the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus.
This message is the burden of our work. It is to be proclaimed with a loud cry and is to go to the whole world. In both home and foreign fields the presentation of health principles must be united with it, but not be independent of it or in any way take its place...
Then let no line be drawn between the genuine medical missionary work and the gospel ministry. Let these two blend in giving the invitation:
"Come; for all things are now ready." Let them be joined in an inseparable union, even as the arm is joined to the body.
6 Testimonies, pg. 290-291
The same comments apply as to the preceding. To say the least, this creates a perversion of the gospel. This "gospel" bears no resemblance to the gospel preached by Paul.
Rom. 4:30-32 -- What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by work.
What is stated here as applying to the Israelites applies to the Adventists in spades. Can anyone fail to see what harm has been done?
Immortal glory and eternal life is the reward that our Redeemer offers to those who will be obedient to Him. He has made it possible for them to perfect Christian character through His name and to overcome on their own account as He overcame in their behalf. He has given them an example in His own life, showing them how they may overcome.
3 Testimonies, pg. 365
There is hope for every one of us, but only in one way, and that is by binding ourselves to Christ, and exerting every energy to attain to the perfection of His character.
5 Testimonies, pg. 540.
The Bible presents Christ coming to this earth where He lived a sinless life and paid our debt to the law with His death, and raised from the grave to confirm our salvation. This He did as our substitute. The legalist pictures Him living the sinless life as our example. In effect, telling us that if He can do it we should be able to do it also.
In His teachings, Christ showed how far reaching are the principles of the law spoken from Sinai. He made a living application of that law whose principles remain forever the great standard of righteousness -- the standard by which all shall be judged in that great day when the judgment shall Sit and the books will be opened. He came to fulfill all righteousness, and as the head of humanity, to show man that he can do the same work, meeting every specification of the requirements of God.
Through the measure of His grace to the human agent, not one need to miss heaven. Perfection of character is attainable by everyone who strives for it. This is made the very foundation of the new covenant of the gospel. The law of Jehovah is the tree; the gospel is the fragrant blossoms and fruit which it bears.
1 Selected Messages, pp. 211, 212
This is stating that the very foundation of the gospel is our successfully achieving perfection of character by our own efforts. I believe we have already read from Scripture where the gospel is the work of Christ in achieving our salvation for us.
Col. 2:6-8 -- So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught and overflowing with thankfulness.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of the world (ten commandments) rather than Christ.
Most of the attempts to pervert the gospel are through these two avenues:
1. Hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition. This applies to anything that is not based on Scripture.
2. Based on the basic principles of this world rather than Christ. Paul always refers to the basic principles of the world in reference to the ten commandments.
The quotation from Selected Messages that we have just noted meets the criteria of both items that Paul warns us to be beware of.
Gal. 2:16-21 (Phillips) -- (we) know that a man is justified not by performing what the law commands but only by faith in Jesus Christ.
We ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be made right with God by faith in Christ and not by obeying the law's commands. For we have recognized that no one can achieve justification by doing the "works of the law."
Now if, as we seek justification in Christ, we find that we are ourselves as much sinners as the gentiles, does that mean that Christ is a producer of sin? Of course not!
But if I attempt to build again the whole structure of justification by the Law which I have demolished then I do, in earnest, prove myself a sinner.
For under the Law I "died," and I am dead to the Law's demands so that I may live for God. I died on the cross with Christ. And my present life is not that of the old "I," but the living Christ within me.
The bodily life I now live, I live believing in the Son of God who loved me and sacrificed himself for me. I refuse to make nonsense of the grace of God. For if righteousness were possible under the Law then Christ died for nothing.
Rom. 8:l-4 -- Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit set me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering, and so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Why is there no condemnation to the born again Christian? Because Christ dwells within through His personal representative -- the Holy Spirit. Condemnation is received by breaking the Ten Commandment Law -- but "the law of the Spirit set me free from the law of sin and death."
Gal. 5:18 -- But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. (Every born again Christian is led by the Spirit)
Rom. 5:13 -- Sin is not taken into account when there is no law. (When we are in Christ our sins are not taken into account when we sin unintentionally. When we continue in deliberate sin it is a sign we are not led by the Spirit and we come under condemnation.)
Rom. 7,8 -- For apart from law, sin is dead.
1 Cor. 15:56 -- The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. (What then was the purpose of the law?)
Gal. 3:19 (NEB) -- Then what of the law? It was added to make wrong doing a legal offense. It was a temporary measure pending the arrival of the '"issue" to whom the promise was made.
Rom. 7:1-6 -- Do you not know brothers... that the law has authority over a man only so long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So, then, if she marries another man while her husband is alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
When a woman's husband dies she is freed from the law of marriage which has bound her to her husband. So we, when we are buried in baptism and die to the law through the body of Christ. We do this in order that we might now be bound to another -- to Christ. We were previously bound as prisoners to the law, but now "by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
I believe that we can now see that the ten commandments can not be any part of the everlasting gospel. The gospel is salvation through Jesus Christ alone -- through Jesus Christ plus nothing.
Acts 4:12 -- Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
This must be coming clear that there is no place in the gospel for the law.
Gal. 3:21-25 -- For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Now we come to another item to see if it is included in the gospel:
To those who keep the Sabbath holy it is the sign of sanctification. True sanctification is harmony with God, oneness with Him in character. It is received through obedience to those principles that are the transcript of His character. And the Sabbath is the sign of obedience. He who from the heart obeys the fourth commandment will obey the whole law. He is sanctified through obedience.
-- Testimonies Vol. 6, p. 350
Where is there any scriptural basis for sanctification through obedience? In the Book of Hebrews it speaks of the man who commits the unpardonable sin. That is the sign against the Holy Spirit -- continuing in deliberate sin after conversion.
Heb. 10:26-29 -- If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace.
True sanctification can only be received through the blood of Christ. We continue to grow in the sanctified life through Christ who dwells in us though His personal representative, the Holy Spirit.
The unscriptural passage from 6T p. 350 is a removal of the finished act of Christ, who through His sacrifice sanctified us, and replaced Him with the law and the Sabbath to be perfectly obeyed by the works of man, to achieve sanctification ourselves. Is this a perversion of the Gospel or not?
We are never to rest in a satisfied condition and cease to make advancement saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained the motives for watchfulness, for prayer, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance. As long as man is full of weakness -- for of himself he cannot save his soul -- he should never dare to say, "I am saved."
1 Selected Messages, pg. 314
This is expressing the great fear of the legalist -- that if we entertain even the concept that we are saved it will distract us from our God appointed task of fighting and clawing our way to achieve salvation and thus come up short. But God does not share in this conception. He reveals this as a gift which we have and be assured of when we accept Christ as our Savior:
1 Cor. 15:2 -- By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Eph. 2:8,9 -- For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast.
Notice this salvation is in the past tense -- you have been saved -- through faith. This is the gospel message. It is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast. This passage alone is sufficient to invalidate all those nonscriptural presentations of the gospel that we have been examining.
1 John 5:13 -- I write to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
This is the assurance that we may know and say that we have been saved. It isn't the reward we received from a lifetime of works, but as a free gift to anyone who believes in the name of the Son of God and confesses Him with his lips. When we give credit to Christ for our being saved, it is confessing with our lips when we state that we are saved.
Now back to "what harm has been done?" I believe it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discover that we have been evaluating material that falsely claims to be a part of the everlasting gospel. Since every quote that we have investigated was claimed by that author as being revealed to her in vision, it is not necessary to find a few quotations that are much less objectionable. Sufficient to say that none of these quotations have been repudiated by the church because that would invalidate the claims of their "prophet," and there are many more of similar content.
Gal. 1:6-9 (Phillips) -- I am amazed that you have so quickly transferred your allegiance from him who called you by the grace of Christ, to another "gospel!"
Not that it is another gospel, but there are men who are upsetting your faith with a travesty of the gospel of Christ.
Yet I say that if I, or an angel from Heaven, were to preach to you any other gospel than the one you have heard, may he be damned!
You have heard me say it before, and now I say it again -- may anybody who preaches any other gospel than the one you have already heard be a damned soul!
Vss. l1,12 -- I do assure you, my brothers, that the gospel I preached to you is no human invention.
No man gave it to me, no man taught it to me; it came to me as a direct revelation from Jesus Christ."
No wonder Paul was so sure that anyone preaching a different gospel than he preached could not be a representative from God. His calling down on that one who would preach a different gospel -- that he (she) be a damned soul.
I don't recall Paul using stronger language than that in any of his writings. He must have been inspired of God to make such a strong denunciation due to the tremendous harm that such a perverted gospel, to millions of believing adherents, would cause.
I hope this study will cause the reader to see which gospel is genuine and which one rests under the curse of God. It is impossible for both to be right.
(All Emphasis Supplied)
Taking the baby steps, Kent |
Martinc
Registered user
Username: Martinc
Post Number: 117
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 12:05 pm: | |
Thanks Kent, that's a good study you put up. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10869
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 1:22 pm: | |
Kent, excellent study. Gent has done a great job; thanks for sharing this. This study addresses both of papajsr's questions!
Colleen |
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