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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10791
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 10:45 am: |     |
I came across a most interesting memento this week. We're cleaning out my mom's house—she has moved into a small apartment in a retirement community—and we're getting her house ready to rent.
In a box of old keepsakes we found my dad's baptismal certificate. He was baptized July 13, 1935, in Drywood, Minnesota, at the age of 13. The certificate is a booklet with eight pages: a cover, the actual certificate with date and place and name, a picture of Jesus being baptized with quotes from Matthew 3 and Acts 2, a page labeled "We Believe", one labeled "Communicant's Covenant", one called "Pastor's Welcome", the next, "Living the Christian Life", and the back page is a poem written by I. H. Evans, an SDA, I'm sure, entitled, "Appeal for Reapers".
Some of the material is "normal" and expected...not surprising or unusual. But I'm going to quote a few passages that caught my attention.
Under "We believe" are 20 points with proof texts. I'll quote them below:
quote: In a personal God. Heb. 1:1-3
In Jesus Christ as the Divine Son of God and our Savior. John 1:1-3, 14; Heb 7:25.
In the Holy Spirit, the Divine Comforter. John 15:26.
That the Bible is the inspired Word of God. 2 Timl 3:16
In regeneration and the new birth, through the acceptance of the gospel John 3:1-7; 2 Cor. 5:17
That the second coming of Christ is very near. That it will be literal, personal, and visible to all. John 14:1-3; Acts 1:11; Matt 24:30
That man by nature is mortal. Joh 4:17; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16
That immortality and eternal life are the gift of God and are received only through Christ. Rom. 6:23
That the dead are unconscious. Eccl. 9:5; John 11:11-14
That there will be a resurrection of the dead. 1 Thess. 4:16, 17
That the wicked will not burn eternally, but will be burned up. Mal. 4:1-3.
That righteousness comes by faith. Rom 4:3-5
That the law of ten commandments is the standard of righteousness, by which all will be judged, ad which all Christians are commanded to obey. James 2:10-12; Ex. 20:3-17.
That the original Seventh Day Sabbath has never been changed by divine authority and therefore all Christians are under obligation to keep it holy. Gen. 2:2,3; Luke 23:52-24:1.
In the support of the Gospel through tithes and offerings. Lev. 27:30, 32; Mal. 3:8-11; Matt 23:23.
In baptism by immersion. Mark 1:9,10; Rom 6:3-5.
In the ordinances of humility and the Lord's Supper. John 13:4-17; 1 Cor. 11:23-26.
in the gifts of the Spirit including the spirit of prophecy. Eph. 4:8, 11; Rev. 12:17; Rev. 19:10.
In discarding unhealthful practices such as the use of intoxicants, tobacco, "et." Prov. 23:29-32; 1 Cor. 3:16-, 17.
That followers of Jesus should manifest true Christian modesty in dress and deportment and should shun all questionable worldly amusements. 1 Tim. 2:9, 10; Matt. 24:37-44; James 1:27.
I'll start a new post to cover a couple other things.
Colleen |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10792
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 10:58 am: | |
The first paragraph of the "Communicant's Covenant" is very interesting. Here it is:
quote:Having seen new light shining from the Bible showing that a special message is due to the world at this time, concerning the soon coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, and kindred truths connected therewith, and desiring to walk in all the light and be ready to meet the Savior when He appears, I do hereby covenant together with God and His people, that by His grace I will be faithful to the beliefs of the SEventh-day Adventist Church.
It ends with this:
quote:I will use my influence for the support of a faithful evangelical ministry among us and will endeavor by life and effort, individually, to win souls to Christ; to do my utmost for the success of missions at home and abroad, and through life, amidst evil report and good report, seek to live to the glory of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.
I'd love to hear your reactions...
I'll post more of my own thoughts later. Gotta do some year-end work before the day's over...!
Colleen |
Goldenbear
Registered user
Username: Goldenbear
Post Number: 168
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 01, 2010 - 8:11 am: | |
Colleen,
The information you posted is interesting. It hearkens back to what I remember about the Adventist church of my youth.
This past week, my wife and I have been discussing our walks in life. She came into the church as an adult and I was born in the church. She asked if during my life I ever questioned things, if it seemed that something just didn't add up, and more directly how did I reconcile the perception that all Christianity was wrong but a small group of people had the "inside" track. My initial response was that I didn't think much about it and the fact that we were different generated a sense of pride. It just confirmed that we were right!
After sorting it through I realized that I could never come to grips with the fact that baptism had become a right of membership (increasing concerns by some that people were being baptized without ridding themselves of all of their vices and this being seen by some as baptizing too soon) instead of being an outward sign of acceptance of Jesus as their personal Savior and dieing to sin. I saw people who had been baptized, believing that they were being baptized into fellowship with Jesus, leave the church when they got caught up in the entanglement of church membership and the expectations of others.
When I read your posts and the commitment to the "Church" that is espoused and not a walk with Jesus, all those feelings came back. When baptism is seen more as an affirmation of membership and not an acknowledgment of who Jesus is/was and what He did for me, I believe that you can only have wholesale abandonment of the church and growing lack of relevance for people who are truly seeking the Lord and meaning in their lives. |
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2
Post Number: 529
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 01, 2010 - 9:01 am: | |
It is interesting to see what any church puts into their baptismal/membership/statement of faith. I believe SDA baptismal cert is in storage and it had some stuff about believing in SOP. What jumps out at me is how this particular certificate has the believer focusing on SDA distinctives-there is a scant reference to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and then focus on the "dos" and "don'ts"
Forive me if this sounds sarcastic-it is not meant to be but while reading this what came to me is "I'll drink the Kool-Aid, I'll be the Kool-Aid, I'll give the Kool-Aid to others to drink" At least the people in Jim Jones' massacre new they were going to their death.
Enoch |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 925
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 6:14 pm: | |
I look at the list above with the different proof texts and something is NOT right. I want to pick each one apart.
1.) "In a personal God" Heb. 1:1-3.
Read Heb. 1:1-3. How does that indicate a personal God? The only thing I see in the text that might somehow indicate a "personal God" is now God speaks to us through His Son - whereas before He spoke through Moses and the prophets. And what is meant by a "personal" God??? Something like my "personal" keychain. Something I own or command? Something that is "mine". Like a "personal" body guard? Or does it mean that He is intimate with me? Like someone that is "personable"? Or are they referring to Jesus' use of Abba as Father? What kind of meaning is behind "personal God" and how is Personal God defined in scripture. This just feels a little "weird" to me ... personal God. The words seem to indicate something generated from "me" ... rather than a Biblical revelation of Who He is - generated from God ...
Somehow the very first thing on the list strikes me as awkward; In a personal God. This feels a little to "earthy" to me ...
Then I'm intrigued by the use of the language in the next two ... why the double adjectives "divine" and "Son of God". How often do you hear these four things put together ... "Divine Son of God"? I hear Son of God, but "divine" Son of God?
Look at this website and where it comes from and who uses that phrase, "Divine Son of God".
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/35440/Divine-Son-of-God.html
And how about the Holy Spirit the divine comforter?
Check this out:
quote:Christian Science teaches that Jesus is divine but not God, and that Jesus' human nature is a separate entity from the divine Christ. "Jesus Christ is not God, as Jesus himself declared, but is the Son of God" (Science and Health, 361:12-13). "Jesus is the name of the man who, more than all other men, has presented Christ, the true idea of God, healing the sick and sinning and destroying the power of death" (Science and Health, 473:10-17).
Mary Baker Eddy taught that the Holy Spirit is equivalent with "divine Science," i.e., the teachings of Christian Science. "In the words of St. John: He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever. This Comforter I understand to be Divine Science." (Science and Health, 55:27-29) "His [Jesus'] students then received the Holy Ghost. By this is meant, that by all they had witnessed and suffered, they were roused to an enlarged understanding of divine Science, even to the spiritual interpretation and discernment of Jesus teachings and demonstrations, which gave them a faint conception of the Life which is God" (Science and Health, 46:30-47:3). ...
We acknowledge and adore one supreme and infinite God. We acknowledge His Son, one Christ; the Holy Ghost or divine Comforter; and man in God's image and likeness.
The above quote is taken from http://www.religionfacts.com/a-z-religion-index/christian_science.htm
Scripture uses the word, Comforter. Have you ever seen "Divine Comforter" in scripture? The Holy Spirit by His very nature is "God". Do we say, "God, God"?
Notice the timing and place of Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science:
# Date founded: 1879
# Place founded: Massachusetts, USA
# Founder: Mary Baker Eddy (1821-1910)
I find this all very interesting ...
Here is another website that uses the terminology of "Divine Comforter" http://darknightofspirit.blogspot.com/2008/11/divine-comforter.html
So what kind of God does Adventism paint? What kind of God is taught in Adventism? Is this God truly Biblical? Look at the language Adventism use to define their beliefs and to define their supposed "Orthodox statement of beliefs".
Do you realize that Mormonism also has an orthodox statement of beliefs? Found in Articles of Faith, pg.1 "We believe in God the Eternal Father, and His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."
Yet, look further into how they define their terminology and how they "teach" their supposed orthodox statement.
In likewise manner it is wise to define words and phrases to fully compare Truth from error.
I think I'll respond a little later to some more of this and the "Covenant to the beliefs of the ... SDA Church" and the "new light shinning from the Bible" ... Feels just as uncomfortable ...
Keri |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3113
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 6:26 pm: | |
Keri,
The phrase "personal God" is normally used to refer to a God who is a person, as opposed to simply being a "force." Of course, in Adventism, by "personal" they mean a physical Being with a body.
Notice also that their first belief is only referring to "the Father." In other words, "God" is "the Father," while Jesus is simply "the Divine Son of God" and the Holy Spirit is "the Divine Comforter." In other words, three separate gods.
Jeremy |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 928
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 7:46 pm: | |
Thanks Jeremy.
Did you check out the first website I mention? The www.lds website?
Isn't it interesting that Mormonism uses the phrase "the Divine Son of God".
Keri |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3114
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 8:11 pm: | |
Keri,
Yes, that is very interesting. You also might be interested in some additional shared terminology with Christian Science that I posted about before, here.
Jeremy |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 227
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 11:57 pm: | |
Very, very interesting, Keri. I would not have thought to even question/explore those phrases...does the Bible ever call the Holy Spirit the 'Divine Comforter' anywhere? What about 'the Divine Son of God'? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10803
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 6:56 pm: | |
Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as the "Comforter" or "Helper". Nowhere is He referred to as the "Divine Comforter/Helper" but simply "Comforter" or "Helper".
In John 14:16, however, there is an adjective attached to "Comforter" (Helper): the word "another", like this:
quote:"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (John 14:16-17)
In other words, Jesus is identifying the Holy Spirit as another like Himself. He doesn't say He'll send the "Divine Comforter" or a "Different Comforter". He says "another Comforter". The word "another" is used to refer to one more of the same kind of thing.
I was actually taught that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit because He could be everywhere at once, but Jesus could not because He now had a body. This notion, however, is unbiblical. Jesus has ALWAYS been omnipresent, even in his death. Colossians 1:17 says,
quote:And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Even on earth, even in His death, all things were held together in Jesus. It's not that the Father and the Spirit couldn't do the job while Jesus lay in the tomb; the fact is the Bible states that the job of holding all things together is the special assignment of Jesus--just as the special assignment of the Holy Spirit is to indwell us and be our guarantee of a future glory while Jesus acts as our High Priest.
Very interesting points above, Keri and Jeremy.
Colleen |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 931
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 11:14 am: | |
I appreciate the wording you bring out from scripture, "another Comforter". Definitely, emphasizing the Holy Spirit's "sameness" to Jesus.
Something came to me as I was reading the above statement in your original post,
quote:Having seen new light shining from the Bible showing that a special message is due to the world at this time, concerning the soon coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, and kindred truths connected therewith, and desiring to walk in all the light and be ready to meet the Savior when He appears, I do hereby covenant together with God and His people, that by His grace I will be faithful to the beliefs of the SEventh-day Adventist Church.
What is the special message that Adventists always point to ... this "NEW LIGHT".
Which by the way is "false light" according to scripture. Light represents Christ.
quote:While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." (John 9:5)
quote:In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. (John 1:4-9;NIV)
So what is the NEW LIGHT that Adventists always emphasize. Jesus' second coming, i.e. the "third angels message". Now wait a minute - most other Christians believe in Jesus' second coming - THAT is not new. It is the additional meaning Adventists have: And according to the statements above "kindred truths connected" to the second coming. And what is it that Adventists teach that is so important about His second coming (these kindred truths) ... the Sabbath.
Scripture speaks of Jesus as THE Light.
And ... what is emphasized in Christianity ... believing in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:24) and being brought from spiritual death to spiritual life, salvation in Christ alone. Christ's second coming will be wonderful, but it is only a consummation of something that has already taken place for the born-again Christian. The Holy Spirit already lives in them. It is now possible to come boldly to the throne of God - because of Jesus - NOW.
I have a devotional pamphlet from when I worked in an SDA summer camp. The weeks theme for the devotional packet was "light". One of the days in the week is the "Light of the Law". This is not scriptural. It is EGW. She is the one that takes the Light, Who is Christ, and moves it to "circle around the fourth commandment".
Again, meaning behind words ... Light ... no wonder transitioning Adventists and searching Adventists have to constantly define what they are talking about when viewing scripture or talking to never-been SDA Christians.
Keri |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10809
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 2:36 pm: | |
Oh, good points, Keri.
Yes, the confusion arising from definitions is profound.
Jesus is the Light. Not "a" light—THE light!
Colleen |
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