| Author | Message | ||
| Cindy |
Max, :-)) Please also go back to what I just wrote to see what I am trying to say. :-)) When we preach the historical Jesus on the Cross we are proclaiming an objective, outside of us, act of GOD. It is of a Righteousness given to us... a Substitutionary and Complete Atonement for our sinful condition. To me, a DISTINCTION must always be made between this objective revelation of CHRIST'S Finished, Perfect Work...and our subjective response. This message of the Cross is essential and necessary as our basis and ground of any assurance in salvation! It is something the other religions don't preach, although most stress "morality" and "transformation". They have no need for a Cross. (See the note I posted above on the Baha'i faith.) I will agree with you that even our presentations of Christ Crucifed may be imperfect; and yet I think if we present Scriptures on Christ's saving act at the Cross, the Holy Spirit will do the work of convicting the hearers. I still think this must be of First Importance! :-)) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Hi Cindy, I certainly do agree with you that ^^the Holy Spirit will do the work of convicting the hearers. I still think this must be of First Importance!^^ But I don't think Scripture supports the idea that our words by faith alone supercede our actions by faith alone. Both are imperfect, both "filthy rags" righteousness -- words and deeds. When we preach by BOTH WORDS AND DEEDS the historical Jesus on the Cross we are proclaiming an objective, outside of us, act of GOD. It is of a Righteousness given to us... a Substitutionary and Complete Atonement for our sinful condition. To me, a DISTINCTION must always be made between this objective revelation of CHRIST'S Finished, Perfect Work...and our subjective response by BOTH WORDS AND DEEDS. This message by BOTH WORDS AND DEEDS of the Cross is essential and necessary as our basis and ground of any assurance in salvation! That is what I believe, and I can support it with over a hundred clear-and-plain scriptural texts. MC | ||
| Cindy |
Dear MC, You are so clever with words! :-)) I am going to have to sleep on this... maybe dream?...:-)) I'm just too tired now to continue this tonight, even though it is very interesting! :-)) Morning will come too quickly...and even with my coffee I need some good sleep before that first cup! :-)) Grace always, cindy | ||
| Max |
Not sold in stores: FAITH!! Simon Magus the Sorcerer of Samaria notwithstanding. Nor all of the TV preachers from Apollyon. Yes, Scripture does say, "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ." (NIV Romans 10:17.) But NOT ONLY by hearing. The text does NOT say, "Faith comes ONLY from hearing the message, and the message is heard ONLY through the word of Christ." Sound exegesis of this text demonstrates from the context that faithful HEARING must be accompanied by faithful DOING. Proof (NIV Romans 12:1-2): Notice that Paul does not begin this chapter with any anemic "yes but." Rather he begins with the robust THEREFORE! "Therefore, I urge you, brothers in view of God's mercy, to OFFER your bodies as LIVING SACRIFICES, holy and pleasing to God -- this is your spiritual ACT OF WORSHIP. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your mind. Then YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TEST and approve what God's will is -- his good, pleasing and perfect will." Maxc of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Good night, Cindy, And all blessed dreams to you and Richard, MC | ||
| Max |
THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO YOU by Arthur Unknown The Gospel of Matthew is fine, my friend. The Gospel of Mark is too. The Gospel of Luke is wonderful. But say, What is the Gospel According to You? There're millions of people who're living in sin, who never sit in a church pew. But you can rest assured, they're watching your life, The Gospel According to You. What about it, neighbor? Just where do you go, when ere the day's work is thru? For wherever it is, somebody's watching, The Gospel According to You. The things that you do, the words that you speak, they're following you all day through. And when least expected, somebody is reading, The Gospel According to You. And when up in heaven, your Savior you meet, and all life's journey is through, will there be any souls who are there because, Of the Gospel According to You? | ||
| Denisegilmore |
I cannot help but jump into this, with hesitation I might add. As I'm not one to get into semantics (sp) or exegises (sp) BUT,,, :)) Jesus Said the deaf will hear. Now I take that into consideration and not only apply it to the literal but also the spiritual. I have to because it is also written the they have ears but cannot hear and that is a spiritual meaning. What I mean is this. There are many people that are truly deaf (literally), but by our actions we can convey Jesus Christ. Perhaps later we can point up with our finger to see if they believe. These such people also live here in my building so I am speaking in all of this post from my experiences. Then there are the people that hate preaching. I live around a host of them. Do I preach the Gospel to them? By no means as that would have them running! Instead, I show, the best way I know how, love. In whatever form that happens to be. Now, in my experience with people, eventually they end up asking me if I'm a Christian or Do I believe in God and other such questions. Others come right to my door, having never met me, but have seen me doing things for others, and they will ask me if I know anything about God or am I a Christian. Then too, are those that visit my abode. They happen to glance around and what do they see? They see an office looking place chuck full of Bibles and concordances, paperwork and other such things like Christian books. They usually at first won't say anything, BUT..something draws them back here and eventually they end up asking in a round about way, about God. In all these, speaking and actions and sometimes non actions but the appearance of my apartment, I'm given the opportunity to tell them about Jesus Christ and our Great Hope. So, I have to say right along with Scripture, to avoid the appearance of evil, to show love, to tell of Jesus, to do good, to present ourselves so that nobody has any accusations that will hold up against us and other such things. There are many ways to speak and do to show people a glimpse. Enough of one, whether it be in words or deeds or both or by our very appearances, to incite others to ask questions about God or to avoid us because they do not want to know. This is my humble opinion and I'm not even sure if this makes sense enough to portray what I'm thinking. But there you have what I think, flawed spelling or grammer and all. God Bless all of us as we try so very hard to portray in writing what is in our hearts. your sister in Christ Jesus our only Hope, DtB | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Max, As you were typing, I was typing. I didn't see your post before I posted and look at the similarity in thought or concept! Well, it's good to know that that unknown author thought about like I do or I think as the author thinks. Which ever, no matter. God Bless you and God Bless that unknown author! DtB, your sister in our Lord Jesus | ||
| Lori |
Those are great concepts! I was thinking the other day about the places that I go that I don't think of God. I always think about Him when I am at home, or in the car. That's good because those are the two places I am at the most. But, I have discovered that there are places that I go that the entire time that I am there I have no thought of God. One is the grocery store-I guess "I leave God in the car" and another place that "I leave God in the car" is when I take my boys to TaeKwonDo. Of course, when I thought of this my immediate question is "why?". What am I doing that is causing me to "leave God in the car"? --the answer is easy-- It's because I have become self-absorbed! In the store I am so focused on ME accomplishing the task and at TaeKwonDo-I'm self-absorbed in conversation with other moms. I have to praise God because I know that this awareness is part of my spiritual growth!! And, I am so very thankful to finally understand what it means to grow in GRACE!!! Lori | ||
| Valm |
Lori, Trust me when you take God into the grocery store you are much better able to cope when grandma runs over you with her cart. You will even gladly get the jar from the top shelf for her! I am happy for the little epiphany God gave you this week. Valerie | ||
| Lydell |
Lori, you would really be challenged by reading the little book, "The Prayer of Jabez" by Bruce Wilkinson. You can find it at a Christian book store. Jabez' prayer was very short, "Oh that you would bless me indeed (so that he could overcome his natural downward tendencies---like our being self-absorbed in the grocery store), and enlarge my territory (so that we will be open to his promptings to minister wherever...to include the grocery store), that Your hand would be with me(for it is only by His empowerment that we can minister), and that You would keep me from evil (huh uh, you have to read the book to get what the author has to say on that one! ha), that I may not cause pain." This is a very small book, but it is HUGE! I strongly encourage you to read it! | ||
| Lori |
That's very true, Valerie, but what I'm referring to is more on the lines of from what perspective did you "get the jar from the top shelf for her"? Did you do it from the perspective of "she's going to think what a really sweet person I was" or were you doing it from "whatever you do, do it as it was unto God"? Did you hold the door because "anyone who sees me will notice how kind/courteous I am" or "you are a servant of God" or "this behavior is accepted"? Did you smile because "it's just your personality to do that" or did you smile because the "radiance of God showed out through you"? I'm not really referring to "what I do" while I'm at the "store" but rather with what "spirit" I do it in. "Sweet" people can live their whole lives and no one really thinks about whether they are saved or not. Why? Because "sweet" people already exhibit the things that the world views as "being spiritual"? But the reality is that being "sweet" has nothing to do with salvation or the spiritual way of life. Christ was anything but sweet when he cleaned out the synangogue! But he was living the spiritual way of life. I'm not going to walk into the grocery store and ignore the obvious need of another individual whether I walk in there with or without God or whether I'm in a hurry or not. That's not my way. That's not the "Southern" way. I'm going to stop for someone who's walking across the parking lot to the store. I'm going to hold the door open for someone that is near me. I'm going to get that item that's out of reach and my children will do those things to because that is common courtesy and good manners. But none of these things are spiritual. My comment was based more on "where my thoughts are" not "what my actions are". I can have the actions without having the thoughts!!! When we do the action without the "proper motivation" it is wood,hay and stubble or we can do the very same action with the Spirit of God and this is the thing lasts-gold, bronze and silver. I can go to the store and I'm the only person that would ever know that my motivation was not from the motivation of Christ because my actions are going to look O.K. to those around me. But what I'm seeking is a motivation and an action that is always pleasing to my Lord!! Does that make sense? Lori | ||
| Jtree |
The Treasure! (Gee I don't know where to put this, so I put it here). (by Alice Gray as printed in "More Stories for the Heart") The cheerful girl with bouncy golden curls was lmost five. Waiting with her mother at the heckout stand, she saw them: a circle of listening white pearls in a pink foil box. "Oh please, Mommy. Can I have them? Please, Mommy, please!" Quickly the mother checked the back of the little foil box and then looked back into the pleading blue eyes of her little girl's upturned face. "A dollar ninety-five. That's almost $2.00 if you really want them, I'll think of some extra chores for you and in no time you can save enough money to buy them for yourself. Your birthday's only a week away and you might get another crisp dollar bill from Grandma." As soon as Jenny got home, she emptied her penny bank and counted out 17 pennies. After dinner, she did more than her share of chores and she went to the neighbor and asked Mrs. McJames if she could pick dandelions for ten cents. On her birthday, Grandma did give her another new dollar bill and at last she had enough money to buy the necklace. Jenny loved her pearls. They made her feel dressed up and grown up. She wore them everywhere -Sunday school, kindergarten, even to bed. The only time she took them off was when she went swimming or had a bubble bath. Mother said if they got wet, they might turn her neck green. Jenny had a very loving Daddy and every night when she was ready for bed, he would stop whatever he was doing and come upstairs to read her a story. One night when he finished the story, he asked Jenny, "Do you love me?" "Oh yes, Daddy. You know that I love you." "Then give me your pearls." "Oh, Daddy, not my pearls. But you can have Princess-the white horse from my collection. The one with the pink tail. Remember, Daddy? The one you gave me. She's my favorite." "That's okay, honey. Daddy loves you. Good night." And he brushed her cheek with a kiss. About a week later, after the story time, Jenny's daddy asked again, "Do you love me?" "Daddy, you know I love you." "Then give me your pearls." "Oh, Daddy, not my pearls. But you can have my babydoll. The brand new one I got for my birthday. She is so beautiful and you can have the yellow blanket that matches her sleeper." "That's okay. Sleep well. God bless you, little one. Daddy loves you." And as always, he brushed her cheek with a gentle kiss. A few nights later when her daddy came in, Jenny was sitting on her bed with her legs crossed Indian-style. As he came close, he noticed her chin was trembling and one silent tear rolled down her cheek. "What is it, Jenny? What's the matter?" Jenny didn't say anything but lifted her little hand up to her daddy. And when she opened it, there was her little pearl necklace. With a little quiver, she finally said, "Here Daddy. It's for you." With tears gathering in his own eyes, Jenny's kind daddy reached out with one hand to take the dime-store necklace, and with the other hand he reached into his pocket and pulled out a blue velvet case with a strand of genuine pearls and gave them to Jenny. He had them all the time. He was just waiting for her to give up the dime-store stuff so he could give her genuine treasure. So like our Heavenly Father. What are you hanging on to? Joshua of the Rock! | ||
| Max |
Joshua of the Rock! God has given you a way of bringing tears to the eyes. --Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Anybody who separates the "new birth" from the "feeding at God's breasts" and the weaning from "God's breastmilk" to "God's solid food" and "growing up in God's grace" is not only doing violence to Holy Scripture, but is also cutting the believer off from Christ hanging on the cross. | ||
| Max |
Where does Scripture say that we are born again and again and again and again and again and again ad infinitum? | ||
| Max |
^^And what is the role of the Holy Spirit? See John 16:7-16. You will not find "changed characters" or the ability to please God with our obedience listed.^^ John 16:7-16 cannot be cut off and taken out of the context of the rest of the book of John and the entire New Testament witness. NIV John 16:7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. 16 "In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me." To be continued. | ||
| Max |
John 16:7-16 is but a part of a very long passage (six long chapters) of prayer and fellowship with his disciples just before they cross the Kidron Valley and enter the olive grove where Jesus is to be arrested. After the mysterious John 16:7-16 portion of this passage, considerable context is devoted to its meaning. The point: The Holy Spirit cannot come unless Jesus "goes away." The Holy Spirit IS Christ in us. The Holy Spirit IS Christ. They are an identity. God IS ONE. The Holy Spirit IS ALSO the Father. God is ONE. Jesus Christ IS ALSO the Father. God is One. All three Persons of the godhead are FULLY WITHIN each one. Example: "In Christ ALL THE FULLNESS of the DEITY" -- FATHER, SON, SPIRIT -- "lives IN BODILY FORM, and YOU have been given fullness in Christ...." Colossians 2:9=10 NIV. The result: Christ's "prayer is not for them [his disciples] alone. I pray also for THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE in me through their message [in BOTH words and deeds], that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us SO THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE that you have sent me. I HAVE GIVEN THEM THE GLORY that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one; I IN THEM and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to LET THE WORLD KNOW [through BOTH words and deeds] that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." NIV John 17:20-23. To be continued. | ||
| Max |
Jesus prayer continues: "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and THEY [you and I, fellow believers] know that you have sent me." NIV John 17:25. The NIV text note to "they know" says this: "They [you and I] did not know God directly and personally [as John, Peter, James and the rest of the Twelve did], but they knew God had sent Christ. To recognize God in Christ's mission is a great advance over ANYTHING THE WORLD CAN KNOW." Continuing with Christ's prayer: "I have made you [Father] known to them [you and I], and will CONTINUE to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be IN them and that I myself may be IN them." Therefore: The very context of John 16:7-16 RULES OUT any interpretation that denies that loving actions will not be seen by the world in the lives of Christ followers. And since love fulfills the law in its entirety, "changed characters" are the inevitable result of all in whom both the Father and the Son dwell in the Person of the Holy Spirit. There is just no way around this, my frends! Scripture says what it says. And God is not mocked. Blessings to all, Max of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
Lori, You make perfectly great sense. That is why I said the coping will be alot easier. Coming from the South, you are conditioned for good manners, even when they hurt. But to do these things will not be with any effort or code of law. They will be from the Holy Spirit working within you. For myself, I do not like to be ran down by a shopping cart by an old lady (something that happens with less frequency now that I live in the NW. But when I go into the supermarket in the "Gospel state of mind" I remember how imperfect I am, smile about my sore achilles, move out of the way, and escort grandma by. I gave up looking sweet or being perceived as such a long time ago. I grab the jar off the top shelf not because of what grandma thinks about me but because I am deeply enriched by the suprised look on her face at the act of kindness. Formyself, I have God who accepts me the way I am so I need no acceptance of others. Living in his grace even in the supermarket give the day to day tasks a spiritual overtone. I do not know what happens but by grabbing that jar, I feel like I am benefitting more than grandma. For me it is living in the kingdom now. I do not know how else to articulate it. Valerie Valerie |
