| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7690 Registered: 3-2004  |
A question was asked on CARM about a rabbi who became SDA after reading Patriachs and Prophets. The rabbi's name is Joe Kagan. He became acquainted with an artist by the name of Elfred Lee, who is sda. The story is on Elfred Lee Art Gallery in the news section. I have heard this story before but am not sure it is true. Does anyone else know about this?? Here is the website: <http://www.elfredleereligiousart.com/index.php> Diana L (Message edited by Flyinglady on November 08, 2009) (Message edited by Flyinglady on November 08, 2009) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1087 Registered: 7-2007 |
I feel so bad when someone gets free of one deception, only to go into another deception.  I've met someone who used to be a Roman Catholic who had become an SDA and I've met other used-to-be-Catholics; who became Jehovah's witnesses. For a person to come to the Messiah and then to not accept His New Covenant (the SDA church mixes the old and new covenants; taking some of one and some of the other and coming up with a false gospel) really makes me sad. (He came to a false "Jesus" actually. The SDA "Jesus"- like the Roman Catholic and Mormon "Jesus," is a false "Jesus.") I pray that he reads the Bible without the lens of Ellen White and sees what it REALLY says. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7691 Registered: 3-2004 |
I just read on CARM sda section about this Rabbi. Dirk Anderson had some Hebrew scholars read P&P and they said it is not as as the rabbi said. Apparently Kagan said she used some kind of Hebrew writing . She got a lot of her material from an Edersheim(sp) who is a Jew who converted to Christianity. I do not remember all the details. Diana L | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1089 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yep, she copied a LOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Notice Jeremiah 23:30-32 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10612 Registered: 12-2003  |
Elfred Lee has painted some pretty famous murals and other pictures for the SDA organization. You'll likely recognize some of them at his website here: http://www.elfredleereligiousart.com/ Lee is a dyed-in-the-wool historic Adventist. This story makes me think of a powerful quote from our pastor Gary Inrig this morning. This was another sermon in his series on the Bible. He said,
If a person is "looking for truth" but is not seeking it in the one source of God's personal revelation to us, Scripture, that person will not find truth. They are vulnerable to deception and false teachers. Cults proliferate because people do not stand under the Bible and submit their minds to it. They try to figure out truth on their own by comparing one idea against another. Only by asking God to reveal truth and then submitting themselves to His word will they find truth. You can access this and the previous sermons here: http://www.trinityonline.org/cgi-bin/MediaList.cgi?section= Colleen | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2008 |
Heh! I checked the artist's website, and whenever I clicked to see a larger version of the paintings my web browser would block it and print the following message: "This website might hurt your computer"  Also, I have to admit that the painting style is not my cup of tea. | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen, U mite think this is a bit far out there but I actually tend to believe that those who hold to false teaching or a secular world view are those who have accepted the mark of the beast.All of us are either sealed with the Holy Spirit or marked by the Beast. The New Testament warns us continually about false teaching.SDA's say the mark of the Beast is Sunday Worship but if that were so the did the Disciples really drop the ball,cause i see no warnings about that in the scriptures. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5720 Registered: 9-2006  |
Martin, I always felt that my computer had more sense than most people, now I know why! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10620 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jody, ultimately I agree with you. But there are a great many people who hold to false teachings or a secular world view who ultimately become Christians. I can't say that they have the mark of the beast just because they have false teachings or a secular world view. C. S. Lewis was an avid atheist before becoming a Christ-follower. Revelation describes the mark of the beast as the result of a rejection of Truth and the Lord Jesus. The mark if the beast is not synoymous with depravity. The depraved who never receive the life of Jesus, however, will be marked with the beast's mark! Colleen | ||
| Jody Registered user Username: Jody Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen, I know what u r saying however I think we have to realize that their is our perspective and God's perspective. Since God is omniscience those that will eventually come to Faith do not nor ever did have the Mark.God has an elect from the Foundation of the World and the only reason he hasnt came back yet is because ALL of them have not came to repentance yet.However we know that All that the Father has given to the Son WILL come to him.Therefore we can preach the gospel message with assurance that God's Word will not come back to him void. As for those trapped in false teaching and false world views if they are truly among Gods elect then the Holy Spirit will guide them into the truth.He did it for us didnt he? Not because we were smarter then those left in Adventism but by his Grace. Jody | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10624 Registered: 12-2003 |
Indeed, Jody--God's perspective is not only different from ours, but we can't even explain His perspective. We can only believe it and accept it. Even where passages seem contradictory, we have to be willing to hold them in tension and not deny any part of them. Reality is much bigger than we can see. I can only trust Him with it! Colleen | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 123 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, could you please tell me how to find the posting by Dirk Anderson about Elfred Lee's story/claims about Rabbi Kagan on CARM? My mother in law gave this story to my husband to read. I'd be interested to read what Dirk Andersen had to say. I am not very familiar with CARM so I hope it's not too hard to find! Thank you so much! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7701 Registered: 3-2004 |
Spokenfor, go to this website: http://www.carm.org/. If the link does not work in a search engine type in Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry - CARM. You can go to the link. Look for FORUMS at the top. Click on it and it will take you to all the subjects on CARM. SDA is in the third group down. Click on Seventh-day Adventists. Look down the threads and the thread "Myth or no Myth". You can read the threads without registering. I hope you can find it without to much trouble. Diana L | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2009 |
Weird--I just heard about this Rabbi from my sda SIL who just returned from Northern Ca, who heard it from her father. It sounded like a 'breaking story', but I notice this guy was baptized in 1979. Not exactly new news. Am I missing something? It's intresting how the Rabbis in the carm story all proclaimed hate for the Bible, but loved egw's writings. H-m-m-m... | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 124 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you Diana, I was able to find this thread according to your directions! I appreciate your help -- spokenfor |
