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Hec Registered user Username: Hec
Post Number: 694 Registered: 3-2009
| Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 8:49 pm: | |
Is Psalm 89 a Messianic Psalm? Do the promises to David in this Psalm apply to Jesus? The Psalm says that "I will make him my firstborn". Of course Jesus is the first born, not David. If the promises are applied to Jesus then is the following passage from the Psalm a promise that the Lord will not "unsave" the saved? Psa 89:30 "If his sons forsake My law And do not walk in My judgments, Psa 89:31 If they violate My statutes And do not keep My commandments, Psa 89:32 Then I will punish their transgression with the rod And their iniquity with stripes. Psa 89:33 "But I will not break off My lovingkindness from him, Nor deal falsely in My faithfulness. Psa 89:34 "My covenant I will not violate, Nor will I alter the utterance of My lips. Hec |
Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 461 Registered: 3-2009
| Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:05 am: | |
Yes, I believe you are correct, Hec. There are many Psalms that sound like they're about David, but they're really about Jesus. Like the one that says, "Who may ascend to the hill of the Lord? And who may stand in His Holy Temple?" It goes on to say that the one who has clean hands and a pure heart may ascend to the temple. Of course, as an SDA, I was taught the interpretation that I had to have clean hands and a pure heart if I wanted to be with Jesus. That's the problem with folks who are misapplying these Psalms, IMO, so they look inward at their own hearts rather than to the only One who will ever have clean hands and a pure heart. It's so freeing to know that the whole theme of the Bible is Jesus, not a detailed instruction manual for how to clean ourselves up to be good enough for Him. (Message edited by seekinglight on October 30, 2009) |
Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10571 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 3:03 pm: | |
Great insight, Seekinglight. Hec, I do believe we can see God's promises to the line of David in this psalm. And Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of the Davidic covenant God made. This psalm does talk about what will happen when any of David's royal descendants will sin—and the consequences for such sin will affect the nation of Israel—but the Psalm ends with David calling on God to ultimately be faithful to His own promises. He knows that God will punish transgressors, and he sees that the sins of the descendants will result in God's not giving them the blessings He promised. Yet at the end, he knows God will be faithful to Himself and ultimately bring about the fulfillment of His promises to give David a throne, a succession and a dynasty--and looking back at the psalm, we can see that God fulfills His promise in Jesus. Colleen |
Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg
Post Number: 509 Registered: 2-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 7:29 pm: | |
Hi Hec, Your question interested me....likely because I recognized that of course my immediate inclination is to take ownership of this Psalm. I have a vague recognition (don't know how else to describe it - this is not a clearly defined thought that I have) that over my entire life I have appropriated whatever I like or want that is in Scripture to apply to myself. I have studied more about how to study the Bible over the past few years, and this has led me to question the appropriateness of this behavior. This is why your question fascinated me. (BTW - I do not mean to imply that this Bible study behavior is in any way limited to SDA. I believe it is exceptionally widespread within - well should we say human nature?) It was my immediate inclination to say "Of course God is using the Psalmist to make a promise to ME." I'm not saying this is not ultimately the case, but in response to my reaction I felt a vague unease that there was something I might be skipping over. (Again, having a difficult time describing this because what I want to say isn't clear to me either.) So I thought, "Hey! My pastor holds a doctorate in Old Testament Studies - let's ask Ken." (I love these e-mail conversations Ken and I get into. Any excuse is good enough for me.) This is his reply:There are so many things going on here, it's hard to know where to begin. Part of what I want to say has to do with basic Bible study methods, and part of what I want to say has to do with Psalm 89 itself. Well, let me just jot down a few ideas... First, I would want us to clarify what we mean when we ask whether or not a given passage in the Old Testament is a "Messianic Psalm." By this term we might mean to say that the writer of the Psalm clearly used language which would have been recognized by all who read his poem that the poem was saying something about the Messiah and/or the messianic kingdom. We might, on the other hand, use the term to mean that WE can perceive -from our day, our time, Jesus having already come, New Testament in our hands- something in the psalm about the Messiah or the messianic kingdom. In this case, I think the psalm contains some concepts which we connect to Jesus and the Kingdom of God, most notably the references to the eternal nature of the Davidic dynasty. The psalm reflects on the promises made to David (2 Samuel 7) that God would establish his kingly line, and that his kingdom would be an everlasting kingdom. As you well know, this promise to David has an immediate earthly fulfillment in that Solomon did indeed become king after David, and many generations of David's descendants ruled over the kingdom of Israel. But within the same prophecy there is a much grander, and much more remote in terms of its fulfillment, promise - that through David's biological line would come one who would establish the eternal kingdom. That one, of course, is Jesus, the son of David par excellence. However, while there is this brief reference to the eternality of David's throne, the thrust of the psalm is actually to take up the OTHER side of the promises made to David, that is, the warnings. David was told that, yes, his very own son (Solomon) would follow him as king over Israel. BUT, if he forsook God's ways God would punish him and the nation. This is what the psalm is really about. The psalmist laments that Solomon and his descendants did indeed forsake God's laws, and brought ruin upon the nation. "You have rejected, you have spurned, you have been very angry with your anointed one. You have renounced the covenant with your servant and have defiled his crown in the dust. You have broken through all his walls and reduced his strongholds to ruins..." (vv. 38ff) It seems to me, then, that the psalmist primarily has in mind NOT Christ, the ultimate fulfillment of the BLESSINGS promised to David, but Solomon and the other faithless kings of Israel, and the CURSES which God also announced would befall David's kingdom. So, is the psalm messianic? I would say not, really. There is a fleeting reference to the good things that were promised, but they only serve to heighten the pain of Israel's downfall, the disobedience of those who followed David on the throne. The reference to the "firstborn" in Ps 89:27 was not meant, so far as I can see, to be imbued with any special meaning. David's relationship with God was a special one, as the Davidic covenant suggests. God made David a great king. Indeed, he became the symbol of the truly good, righteous, godly king. So much so, that later generations thought of the Messiah as another David. Here in Ps 89:27 God says of David, "I will make him the firstborn." The NIV translates, "I will appoint him my firstborn." This is a reference to the practice, in the Ancient Near East, of people taking legal steps to determine the principal heir. In the case of God's relationship with David this is likened to a relationship of adoption, wherein the prestigious legal position of the firstborn is not a matter of biology, but is a legal matter. The head of the household appoints the adopted son as the principal heir. This is what God is doing, and as a result David becomes "the most exalted of the kings of the earth." Not a very spiritually satisfying answer, I know. But I think that if we are guided by the actual words on the page this is what we're forced to conclude. I'm still thinking over what Ken has said. Learning to be respectful of the actual words of the Bible and the context and intent of the author (small "a") is a bit challenging for me. Ken says that we can't read-into the literal words of the author if we want to understand what he has written. He says that after we understand what the author has written THEN we may draw application for ourselves. I have additional questions for Ken, but I won't say more than this. I think I'll just let you read and examine your own thoughts. Pegg (Message edited by pegg on October 30, 2009) (Message edited by pegg on October 30, 2009) |
Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 465 Registered: 3-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:07 am: | |
Pegg, thank you for posting this persective from Ken. I find it such a relief not to have to apply every word in the Bible directly to myself. Sometimes it's just not about me! ...quite freeing, actually |
Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg
Post Number: 568 Registered: 2-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 2:03 pm: | |
Oh, you are very welcome, Seekinglight. Actually Ken and I haven't talked about it anymore. Blessings! Pegg |
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