| Author |
Message |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 324
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:22 am: |     |
I'm ending my discussion with Kevin that group in FB. He is just to arrogant and quick to lob harsh word at me. I posted far more than enough scripture, I'm done. What's said was said so hopefully some SDAs with open hearts will read that topic and decide what they think is God's truth. |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 473
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:00 pm: | |
Well, Paul, you are right, of course. The thing I like about BSF is that you read the Bible passages first to let the Spirit speak to you before you hear the human ideas in a lecture and in the notes. I'm just disappointed and a bit disillusioned that there's so much difference of opinion on this matter. As long as this division remains, Adventism's success will be perpetuated b/c people aren't versed enough in Scripture to understand what's involved. |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 325
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:08 pm: | |
I agree,it's important for people to study the scripture so they would not be deceived. Seems like the two giants are battling over this. We need to remain strong and be the voice of reason, but must remember all the Glory goes to God. As long as we stay strong in this Faith we have, God will bring people in one by one or church by church. Seeing what God did with the World Church of God is so amazing. We are all witness to His Glory as well as He has called each of us, this alone should give us strength to battle the Giants through Truth and Love.
Paul |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 567
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:33 pm: | |
This is true, Seekinglight.
I have come to realize that it is much the same for many Christians as it was for me as an SDA. I grew up with it. It was something I just soaked in. I was content with what I knew as "truth". Until He lit a different fire within me I had little reason for digging in and examining the underlying assumptions.
I now understand that many regular normal Christians have experienced Grace in the same way as I experienced the saving SDA doctrines all my life. They tend to take it for granted.
This doesn't mean they don't understand it or value it. It just means that it doesn't make them jump up and go "Ra! ra!". It also means that they have not had occasion to question or study out their basic assumptions about how Grace relates to Law, follow those assumptions to their logical conclusions or examine their Biblical foundation (or lack thereof).
Sadly, I have found that even when this is pointed out, few really have an interest in digging into it. Their eyes glaze over. As you said in another thread, they want to get on to the day-to-day issues of how Christians should act. "What am I supposed to DO?" (Not "What do I have to do to be saved?" Just "What should I DO?" There is nothing intrinsicly wrong with this question. God clearly holds expectations of His children.)
You are absolutely right, however, that this leaves folks immensely vulnerable to law-based teachings of all kinds - SDA included.
I think that we all need each other. Our excitement with the Gift of Grace along with the understanding we have been forced to develop of the way it relates to Law, combined with their practical, seasoned views may be of the Lord's design to point up the multi-dimensional aspects of His awesome goodness.
Pegg |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10632
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 7:49 pm: | |
Paul, great study! Seekinglight, I totally understand your frustration. I remember a few years ago another friend in another state who was a former SDA and a BSF small group leader called me several times to talk over her deep distress over the BSF position on Sabbath/law.
I've had to accept the fact that many Christians have not understood the impact of the new covenant completely. In the Reformed tradition, the law is retained as the standard for faith and practice for Christians. This position is, in my opinion, not the NT position!
In Dispensationalism there is less emphasis on the law; they tend to say it was nailed to the cross in Christ--but they still tend to see "Sabbath" as a "principle" we could follow to our benefit.
Overall, there is a distinct difference in the "intensity" of the Sunday-Sabbatarianism of different strains of Christianity. The Westminster Confession has a definite Sunday/Sabbath statement. This is the confession used by Presbyterians (as you know) and the more classic Reformed churches. The Augsburg Confession, by contrast, is the Lutheran confession, and it does NOT contain a Sabbath-statement.
My primary conclusion, as I have come to realize these things, is that I can have true Christian fellowship with those who understand things differently from me if they are born again. The "place" where we must not divide the body of Christ is at the level of Christian brotherhood and fellowship among those who actually know Jesus and are alive with His Spirit.
My secondary conclusion is that God, Who wastes nothing and redeems everything we give to Him, will give us opportunities to speak for Him and for His new covenant into which He ushers us when we are born again. We have an understanding of the new covenant that is deeper more theologically detailed than many other Christians who have not had to fight their way out of deep heresy.
God definitely transforms our experiences into His strengths for His glory!
Colleen |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 600
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:16 pm: | |
Yes, that was a great study, Paul! I pray that searching hearts will read that on fb. That's all we can hope is that the seed sprouts
What is good about the study is that we are not trying in any way to say that Jesus "sinned", and you pointing out that He was fulfilling the law is exactly the right point!!
Seekinglight, I was sick today and didn't go to BSF, but someone is bringing me the notes. I will not like seeing that explanation either! It seems like the easy way to explain away something that is controversial. I know when I hear things like that from the pulpit, about "keeping" the Sabbath, and then putting Sunday in there as an exchange, I get very uncomfortable!
Hopefully, someone can set them straight. I'll ask whether it is acceptable to send them information. |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 330
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:21 pm: | |
I asked a rabbi about the Sabbath and this is what he said
"The Sabbath, which is the anniversary of the very first one that God instituted after Creation."
He stated that Jewish believe that Adam or none of the Fathers have kept the weekly Sabbath until given to Israel by God when they were taken out of Egypt and it was given as stated a anniversy, a memorial.
Interesting... |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 570
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:36 am: | |
quote:He stated that Jewish believe that Adam or none of the Fathers have kept the weekly Sabbath until given to Israel by God when they were taken out of Egypt and it was given as stated a anniversy, a memorial.
I would like to find written documentation of this for my file.
Pegg |
Pnoga
Registered user
Username: Pnoga
Post Number: 331
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 1:29 pm: | |
I will ask him how he came to this conclusion, and see if he can send me in the right direction. I will post my findings.
I did read something last night on a Jewish study website stating that they believe that Adam, Abraham, etc have kept the Sabbath in some way but not as the Israelites were commanded? My guess and in accordance with Scripture is that they communed with God one on one, they were full of God's spirit, God was resting on them. But what do I know, i'm just a kid... ;)
Paul
(Message edited by pnoga on November 12, 2009) |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 578
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:10 am: | |
Thanks - I'll keep an eye out.
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