| Author | Message | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 313 Registered: 1-2007  |
OK, why do I keep subjecting myself to debates with SDAs? I think it is a never ending discussion. They never answer any questions or provide adequate scripture. I truly know now that there is a veil, although I should have known this since I was there once too. However, I was only a member for about 3 years and I have always questioned EGW so it made it easy for me. I am amazed at the stories form most here on FAF because most of you have been in the church all your life or many, many years and have believed EGW. God truly is amazing and the only one who can remove the veil. So my question, should I continue to discuss these issues with SDAs? Or should I just stop? I know there is nothing I can do to change them, it is entirely God's work. I have prayed to God on this issue so many times, I keep feeling compelled to do so no matter how many times I try to resist, but I would not want to claim this is God telling me to do so. I only know what I know from Scripture and based on what I know is what gives me the strength to debate SDAs. I am currently on FB debating some guy named Ricky whom left the SDA church because He believes they are polluted by the Catholic Trinity Doctrine. So I'm guessing this guy is what you would label Historic Adventist right? I believe I have provided adequate scripture and He has not. I even provided the Didache writings to prove that the Early Church Fathers have abandoned the Jewish Sabbath and gathered on Sunday called the Lord's Day in their writings as early as mid first century. I also have posted EGW's quotes about God showing her that the pope changed Sabbath to Sunday to show Him that she is lying based on Early Church History. Who am I kidding, I'm wasting my time, right? if your interested here is the post of FB http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=10034&post=103182&uid=20496881896# Paul | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5717 Registered: 9-2006  |
I don't have a clue Paul myself Paul, seems to me Adventist are pretty much like Gophers, you chase him down one hole and he pops up in another hole, when he runs out of hole's he just digs him another hole. I ran an Adventist down a Gopher hole once, and he just stayed in his hole, he is there to this day. I guess if you like to chase Gophers, then chase Gophers. A Gopher ain't particular about where he digs, and Adventist ain't particular about where they dig. They are busy digging around in the old musty graveyard of the law, muttering and digging, muttering and digging and throwing dirt over their shoulder, digging through the old bones of the old covenant, looking for sustenance in an old grave yard. You can dig up a whole yard trying to dig up one Gopher. Another thought I have is, just because a person says they are out of Adventism, don't mean they are out of Adventism. River | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 478 Registered: 10-2008  |
Hi Paul, That's a question I have asked myself, at least in the electronic forum format. For some time I was in that forum debating on a daily basis and yes there is a veil but I also found it to be a place where everyone wanted to prove that THEY were right. So you have Liberal, historic, and conservative SDAs all trying to prove their prophetess proves their point. I truly have found only a few people in there who are trying to learn anything; most are so used to being "in the truth" that they are trying to prove their version of the "truth" is the right way. I comment in there about every 6 months or so when I just can't hold myself back because I'm finding it...well kind of like a gopher chase  And yes Paul without clicking on that link it may be pretty safe to assume that that fellow is a historic SDA. There is a really fast growing historic SDA group (pretty large in Canada) who reject the Trinity---based on the writings of EGW and the founding fathers of the SDA church. They are at least honest enough to say our church history is Arian or Binitarian and that the SDA church did not become Trinitarian until the 1950s One day my wife said to me "are you going to go debate Robert again?" (I guy I used to go back and forth with) And it hit me 2 Tim 2:23 says to avoid foolish debates and 2 Tim 4:3,4 talks about people gathering teachers to suit their needs and continuing to follow fables. I am not saying it is wrong for YOU to do it. I just found that I after a while it became silly to discuss aliens on other planets watching us and the use of every news clipping and conspiracy theory to prove that EGW and the SDA church are right. For ME it became a foolish debate if I were to continue to "answer a fool in his folly-lest he/she thinks they are wise because they can copy and paste from Ellen White online" Prov 26 Having said that what I have done is talk to people individually online outside of the forum. I find it removes the "competetive" factor of the FB group. One young lady was even actually quite responsive to rejecting EGW. Ok I'm rambling again but I think it should be a matter of prayer (one of the things that bothered me in my last months of debating on FB was that I wasn't praying before going on that forum). The posts I see you put up are absolutely fantastic and I think you've done a great job of defending the faith. I think the question for prayer is that the battle field God wants you on Enoch | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did you think about using all that energy and enthusiasm for the Truth in a different way? Maybe writing a book or magazine articles? It's true that in that way the communication is only one way, instead of two ways as it should be in a debate... But, in any case, when the other person is not listening and thinking about what you're saying, the communication becomes one way only. So, apart from the debate that same information can be digested in a different way by the receiver since the person will not be in the "debating mode". Just an idea... | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 479 Registered: 10-2008 |
Oops I should have clicked the link first. I didn't realize which FB group you were talking about I mixed it up with the one run by SDAs. Our sister Kristen is right that forum was not meant for proselyting. Discussion yes but foolish debate no. To the credit of the FB group I'm referring to the founders actually encourage discussion and do not try to drown out non or former SDAs-some of the conservative SDAs tried to have me and some others banned. I'm glad to see you defending the faith and at least part of my response stands--enter any and all discussions of the word prayerfully. Enoch (Message edited by psalm107v2 on November 09, 2009) | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 702 Registered: 7-2008  |
God hasnt asked us to "debate" the gospel to the world. Such is a waste of time. Millions on this planet dont know Christ as their savior. Such people need to be our focus group. I refuse to debate sda people. I would rather introduce a non christian to Jesus instead. ...Just my opinion Animal | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7694 Registered: 3-2004  |
I will tell SDAs what God has done for me and tell them why I believe what I believe. When they try to debate, I just tell them my beliefs are between me and God and their beliefs are between them and God. That usually stops them. I have done that on CARM. On FB I will go and read the various sites, maybe make a comment and not go back for a long time. Diana | ||
| Mommyk Registered user Username: Mommyk Post Number: 291 Registered: 4-2007  |
Paul...this guy Ricky is not going to stop...he HAS to have the last word. There's nothing more you can say. You've done an excellent job on that thread of defending the Gospel and the New Covenant. Ricky is just debating in circle. Again, I really don't think there's anything else to be said. Just pray that his veil will be lifted and give this over to God. Thank you for all your comments! ~Kristen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 728 Registered: 3-2009 |
I think that on of the dangers debating SDAs or any cult is that they don't want to learn anything. They want to teach. They do not debate with an open mind to learn, but they close their minds to what they already "know" and stick to their guns. So they argue in circles,and like River says the become gophers popping out of every hole. The problem is that in this way they wear you out. Once you realize that there is no more to discuss because they are not paying attention to scripture but to their already make arguments, then you don't have anything else to say. They take this as, "I'm right." And so the next time they do the same thing being strengthened by theirs perception that they "won" the argument with you. So, you never win the debate. If you present all the proof from scriptures, they cannot see it because of their veil. If you keep debating after having presented scriptures, it becomes a circle. If you stop, they think they "won". So no wonder Paul says not to engage in foolish debates. Hec | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 962 Registered: 7-2005  |
Paul, I don't think your debates fall under the classification of foolish debates. I agree that it is possible to get into gopher chasing, but if we continue to steer our conversations back to critical topics, it can be very good to engage in debates. One never knows how many people with open hearts and minds are watching/listening on the sidelines. In the Bible, Paul said, "I am determined to know nothing among you, save Christ and Him crucified." The person and nature of Christ and His work on the cross are crucial topics. The Lord has been impressing on my heart lately how important it is to have our doctrine correct, when it comes to who Christ is and what He accomplished on the cross. I keep going back to that passage that talks about counting the blood of the covenant, by which we were sanctified, an unholy thing. The IJ doctrine comes so close to doing this that I feel it should be brought into the light and renounced publicly. I urge you to continue your FB debates, as long as you can steer the discussions back to crucial topics like this. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1090 Registered: 7-2007 |
Please keep on discussing those issues, Paul!!!! I was born and raised in the SDA church and was an Adventist for over 50 years. I'm grateful that someone was willing to keep on trying with me!!!!! The Lord can use your words even when it doesn't seem like anything is getting through. You never know who might be ready to hear what you have to say and believe. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thanks for the support and advice guys. I am still posting. Someone by the name of Kevin came on what an arrogant one he was. He told me not to waste his time with pasting scripture as He didn't need it, He has his bible. He claimed not to be an SDA. He was unpleasant to say the least. Paul |
