| Author | Message | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 926 Registered: 7-2005  |
Can someone please help me find a quote from SDA literature that states that Christ's blood, in transferring the sins to the heavenly sanctuary, did not cleanse but rather polluted it? I found an article by Mark Martin (http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Articles/defiles/tabid/451/Default.aspx) that quotes O.R.L. Crosier as follows: "We must see in the work of Christ a fulfilment of the work of the Old Testament priests. In the daily work of these priests, when they presented the daily offering to God and brought the blood of these offerings into the holy place, sprinkling it before the veil or applying it to the horns of the altar of incense, they were only transferring iniquity from the people to the sanctuary." Martin paraphrases several texts from this work by Crosier, but never gives the name of the book (or article) from which he quotes. Maybe Martin gives the name of the book or article in another place on his website, but I haven't had time to read more of his articles to find out. So, I thought I would ask you dear folks to help me. Do you know the name of this book by Crosier or can you give me any other passages from SDA literature that state this concept? I am slowly coming to realize that the Jesus I worship is not the same Jesus my SDA husband worships, which is a hard pill to swallow after 20 years of marriage. But, if hubby really believes that Christ's blood only transferred sins and didn't cleanse sins upon His death and ascension, then he is essentially counting the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. Right? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3042 Registered: 10-2004  |
Honestwitness, It was Ellen G. White herself, the SDA's "continuing and authoritative source of truth," who states that Christ's blood polluted the "heavenly sanctuary":
And, of course, she teaches that the "cleansing" of the heavenly sanctuary is not complete until Christ places all of our sins on Satan as the scapegoat, who will bear the penalty for them by shedding his blood in the Lake of Fire! (Almost too horrific a concept for me to talk about.) You can find some additional quotes in the following thread: http://www.formeradventist.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/4529/8956.html Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on October 04, 2009) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1066 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's something I found in the E.G. White estate online; in the section called: "Did Ellen White Contradict the Bible over 50 times?" (It's where the E.G.White estate is trying to refute charges made accusing E.G. White of contradicting the Bible.) quote: 27. ARE CONFESSED SINS TRANSFERRED TO THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST? EGW: Yes "As the sins of the people were anciently transferred in figure, to the earthly sanctuary by the blood of the sin-offering, so our sins are, in fact, transferred to the heavenly sanctuary by the blood of Christ." (Great Controversy p. 266 1886 Edition). " As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred in figure to the earthly sanctuary so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary." (Great Controversy p. 421 1911 Edition). Bible: No "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." (1 John 1:7 NIV) "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace" (Ephesians 1:7 NIV) "This allegation also deals with the Investigative Judgment. The texts used to refute Ellen White only support what she had said in the quotes listed." As you can see, the estate didn't have much of an answer to this charge! I wonder what an Adventist would say if one were to ask him/her if God is sitting in a dirty, sin-covered sanctuary. And what about what they believe about the scapegoat? They believe the sins remain on the heavenly sanctuary until the end of the thousand years and then are placed on Satan. Maybe Adventists need to re-read Leviticus 16 where two perfect young goats were picked. The scapegoat would need to be perfect and innocent or it wouldn't be a scapegoat. In my little reference Bible, the words "...putting them on the head of the goat..." in Lev. 16:21 (where Aaron was confessing Israel's sins over the head of the scapegoat), refers to Isaiah 53:6 where it talks about Jesus: "...and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1067 Registered: 7-2007 |
Oops, Jeremy must have been writing that while I was writing!  | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3043 Registered: 10-2004 |
Also, another parallel is Leviticus 16:22: "And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities..." compared to Isaiah 53:11: "...for he shall bear their iniquities." JESUS is the Scapegoat, not satan!! Jeremy | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 928 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hmmm...I had to read the White Estate website quote above about five times, but I finally grasp what they are trying to say. Very interesting that their answer is so short. A typical SDA reading that would be satisfied that someone in a position of authority has already thought up an answer to this issue. They can then gloss right over it and never have to face the issue in depth. I'm so frustrated by this type of thing. No matter what I say to hubby regarding faulty Adventist doctrine, he can just go to his SDA resources and find this kind of reinforcement and continue to ignore the cognitive dissonance. I have been praying about whether the Holy Spirit wants me to keep harping on these things to hubby or just keep quiet and avoid the conflict. In answer, the first thought that sprang up in my mind was, "Hebrews 10:28-29.". So, I looked it up really quickly to see what it said. It hit me like a bolt of lightning. "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy who has trodden underfoot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite to the Spirit of grace?" I am SO N O T wanting to confront hubby. We get along so beautifully when I keep my mouth shut. I wish that the fact that I quit Adventism was sufficient to shake him loose, but he is so stuck in the system. * sigh* * heavy sigh * I need your enabling power, God, to properly and effectively draw my husband's attention back to this very important issue, repeatedly if need be, until he faces it. I trust You, Lord, that you will do this in and through me, as You see fit. Thanks, Asurprise and Jeremy, for helping me with these quotes. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 601 Registered: 3-2009 |
"Hebrews 10:28-29.". "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy who has trodden underfoot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite to the Spirit of grace?" Would that apply to those who say that the blood of Jesus pollutes heaven? Would that be counting the blood of Jesus as an unholy thing? Would that mean the the IJ is not only a false doctrine but also a doctrine that causes death? Lord have mercy! Hec | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 929 Registered: 7-2005 |
Good questions, Hec! I believe the only appropriate response, when we realize we have supported a system that promotes this doctrine (that Jesus' blood does anything other than cleanse from sin) is to repent in dust and ashes, so to speak, for counting Jesus' blood as anything less than utterly holy! I repent, dear Jesus, for any and all of my involvement with Seventh-day Adventism, especially as I supported it with my time, my talents, and my money, because I now see how heinous is this doctrine about Your blood polluting anything. Thank You that You are a forgiving God and thank You that I can trust You to work Your righteousness in me and enable me to share with many others just how dangerous SDA doctrine is. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5590 Registered: 9-2006  |
I repent of having done so in other ways Lord, and as our friend and brother, Hec, says Lord have mercy! And now I thank you for that forgiveness and for mercy, Thank you Jesus that your blood has cleansed us from all sin. Amen River | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 290 Registered: 1-2007  |
Leviticus 16:15-16 When he slaughters the male goat for the people's sin offering and brings its blood inside the veil, he must do the same with its blood as he did with the bull's blood: he is to sprinkle it against the mercy seat and in front of it. 16 HE WILL PURIFY THE MOST HOLY PLACE IN THIS WAY FOR ALL THEIR SINS BECAUSE OF THE ISRAELITES IMPURITIES AND REBELLIOUS ACTS. He will do the same for the tent of meeting that remains among them, BECAUSE IT IS SURROUNDED BY THEIR IMPURITIES. It is very clear that their sins surrounded the tent of meeting, and all. The blood purified the Mercy Seat, Alter, etc from those sins that surrounded. The blood did not carry the sins into the sanctuary and defile. As for the laying on of hands, for the sacrifice, it was not to transfer our sins, it was to make it acceptable to the Lord in our behalf to make atonement for us - Leviticus 1:3-4. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10471 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my goodness--you are completely right in your assessment of this heinous doctrine. The actual doctrine of the IJ and the SDA version of "atonement" actually is a blasphemy and an doctrine leading to death. Hec, as you said, it tramples the blood of Jesus and negates its eternal cleansing power. Adventism piously claims to be Christian, and, in fact, it is snaring people into subtle deception and doctrines of death. Adventism tramples the blood of Jesus and places Satan in the position of the penal substitute for the sins of the saved. Several of us have taken considerable heat over the past couple of years for stating that Adventists have a different Jesus from the biblical one...but I am more than ever settled in my conviction that Adventists worship a "different Jesus". The Adventist Jesus could have sinned, could not see "beyond the portals of the tomb", did not complete the atonement at the cross, defiled heaven with His blood laden with sin, and places those confessed sins on Satan for the final punishment. THAT is not the Jesus of the Bible. These reality is why Adventists cling to law, resist the plain words of Scripture and the good news of the new covenant. It is why they are not passionate about serving Jesus and don't really understand the new birth, on the whole. Their Jesus is meek and limited, and no one can take refuge in a Jesus who is locked into a battle with Satan and is waiting to place sin on Satan for heaven's final cleansing. Adventists cling to a false gospel. They are not teaching the gospel. They are teaching a counterfeit that gives Satan the credit for the work of Jesus. Paul, GREAT point that in Leviticus, the blood cleansed. Always. It never defiled. Honestwitness, I know what this realization means for you. I am praying for you and your husband. Colleen | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 132 Registered: 5-2009 |
Not to mention that the SDA "Jesus' is an archangel, a created being! Thank you, Lord, for opening our eyes, and please reveal the True Jesus and His cleansing blood to our loved ones! We place them in your strong & gentle hands and ask you to break the spirit of Adventism! | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1272 Registered: 11-2007  |
Great thread.. I was just in the process of looking up quotes and verses on this subject. Big help!!! Honestwitness it sound like God is moving you into a new and challenging situation at home. My prayers are with you in that.. boldness in love as God's Spirit supplies. The pill is hard to swallow and tries to come back up on me sometimes.. but it's the hard truth. Thank you Colleen and all here too for taking a firm stand in spite of the opposition. It's encouraging and eye-opening to us to see the bold proclamation (no pun intended) of the simple truth. Felt compelled to do some writing on this topic this week, so this is all a huge help. Thanks! Sondra | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 930 Registered: 7-2005 |
"...Boldness in love as God's Spirit supplies..." Yes, that's what I need. Thank you all for your prayers. Let me ask you a question. Back when you were still Adventists, what would have been your reaction, if a non-Adventist Christian had said to you, "Your Jesus and mine are not the same person. Your Jesus had to wait until 1844 to enter the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, whereas my Jesus has been sitting in the mosy holy at the right hand of the Father since he first ascended in 33 AD."? I'm thinking of putting it this way to hubby and wondering what kind of reaction I might expect. The only time we do anything spiritual together is when we pray before meals. We have both been assuming we are praying to the same Jesus, but... It just really scares me to think of how to finish that sentence and what it will mean to my marriage, if I tell him we're not praying to the same Jesus. * trembling * | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1277 Registered: 11-2007 |
Well, I would have been angry and insulted probably. In fact.. my sda mom told me that too last year when we were having a discussion, and I was insulted then (before I realized how right she was.) Are you the one that was learning how to draw people out of deception through asking questions? Someone on here was.. but I don't remember who. Maybe approach the same subject in the form of questions, not a forceful statement? I don't know. But it seems evident that you are being called to bring it out on the table, whichever method you choose. I have not been successful in the method department, so I will definitely pray for your wisdom - His words. Maybe make it not so personal (I'm just thinking out loud here).. not using the words "your" and "my" but drawing the contrast between his church and your church? ? ? ha. I'm not much help probably. I do know when you hit people on a personal level, the blockades are thrown up.. But to most sda - the church is just as personal as if you were talking about their mama. =) So glad I don't have a tie like that to any church/group anymore! My identity is no longer an "ism" Sondra | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 931 Registered: 7-2005 |
Yes, Sondra, I was the one who was learning about asking questions, instead of making statements. Thank you for your insights. So, your SDA mom recognized that you and she worship two different persons, instead of the same Jesus? That's interesting! Hmmm...I would have thought SDAs would not want to admit that. So, how should I word my question to hubby about us not praying to the same Jesus? I've thought of a couple of questions, but they sound like leading questions and that type of question is counterproductive. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 613 Registered: 3-2009 |
I have somewhat of a problem with the idea of different Jesus. There is only one Jesus. If I believe that Jesus is black and you believe that Jesus is white, does that make two different Jesus? It's like friends in this forum who have no pictures. I picture them one way and you picture them a different way, does that make them two different people? The difference is with us, not with Jesus. It seems to me that we all worship the same Jesus even though we may have different conceptions of Him. Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3045 Registered: 10-2004 |
Honestwitness, Maybe you could show him the quote from EGW where she says that you are praying to satan and not to Jesus, because you don't believe in 1844. Then again, I'm probably not being of much help either. Ha. Or you could simply ask him: You: "Do you think that we worship the same Jesus?" Him: "No." (That would be easy.) or Him: "Yes." You: "But there are so many differences..." (and then show some of the irreconcilable differences between your Jesus and his). I don't know. Just thinking out loud. I do know that many SDAs are like Sondra's mom and do recognize that they worship a different "Jesus" than we do. But then again, many of them would probably deny it, also. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on October 06, 2009) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3046 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hec, The idea of "a different Jesus" comes directly from the Bible, in Paul's second epistle to the Corinthians:
So, it is completely accurate to speak of those who worship "a different Jesus." Elsewhere in speaking to the Corinthians, Paul says that "indeed there are many gods and many lords" (1 Corinthians 8:5 NASB). In context, of course, he is speaking of false gods--but these are not the "same God/Jesus" that we worship just because there is only one real, true God. They are false gods, that people have set up as gods and worship as gods even though they are not actually gods--since there is only true God. Here is some of the context:
And then, a couple of chapters later, he says:
So here Paul makes it clear that behind every false god/jesus (every idol), there is a demon. And those who are worshiping a different/false god/jesus (an idol), are actually worshiping a demon. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on October 06, 2009) | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 932 Registered: 7-2005 |
So, if SDAs are worshipping a false Jesus, are they drinking the cup of demons when they celebrate the Lord's supper? I'm not sure I could support that thought. The Gentiles about whom Paul wrote weren't celebrating the Lord's supper, were they? Is it possible we're extrapolating too much here, Jeremy? | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hec, yes there is only one Jesus! But, if I pray to someone that I think is Jesus, but he's really a created archangel--then who am I praying to? HW, I would ask your husband gentle questions and see if he will look it up in the bible with you...I would definitely ask if he believes Jesus to be Michael the AA just too see where he stands. I think I would ask him if he believes the blood cleanses or not. Aren't there lots of verses about the cleansing aspects of Christ's blood? Then gently ask him how on earth Christ's blood in any way can defile? I think I would have been bewildered if someone had directly pointed out 1844 vs AD31, HW, but I would have studied it to see if it was true. I did have someone outright tell me some things similar to that and that was the process that started me out. But it depends on what type of person your husband is...I know that with my mom, I asked her what she would do if she found something from EGW that directly contradicted the Bible, then showed her the verse that tells us we can know we are saved. I let her answer which one she would go with...it wasn't so threatening that way and she had to answer something, instead of me 'preaching' to her. BTW, I left 'White-Washed' sitting on the couch at their home while I was visiting, and while I took my mom on errands, my Dad started reading it! He said, 'This is really good!' (MM) Major Miracle. Mom probably thinks I'm nit-picking; she said 'I don't care about all that 1844 stuff'. Tried to explain that it was significant because EGW backed it as something God told her, so if it's false then how could that been God talking to her? You know, the prevailing attitude I've met is that showing the un-Biblical doctines to SDAs is somehow part of a very clever deception of Satan to undermine Sabbath. | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2008 |
AMEN !!!!! Jeremy The jesus of the sda, rcc, lds, jw is NOT in any way shape or form the JESUS of the Bible. Their jesus cannot save them and did not provide a full atonement for them. The sda jesus is an angel, who investigates the sins of the righteous!!! NOT the all knowing omnicient God of the Bible, Who takes away the sins of the world. The rcc jesus is a victim, who must be sacrifced over and over and over again a continual sacrifice. NOT the Jesus of the Bible Who died ONCE for all. The lds jesus is a man. who became god. NOT God who became man and dwelt among us. The jw jesus again is "a" god, an angel and did not raise BODILY from the grave. NOT the almighty God /Jesus, Who conquered death, hell and the grave on our behalf and rose body,soul,and spirt from the dead as proof of Who He is and what He FINISHED on the cross. If you have a false jesus, you have a false church and you are still lost in your sins. ONLY the true Biblical Jesus can save you. Hec, It is sooo NOT seeing Jesus differently it is criminal identity theft. If a person stole your identity and used your name and portrayed himself as you ... would he be you??????? The difference is a trillion dollars in cash or a trillion dollars in couterfeit money. One gives you alot and the other is a whole lot of NOTHING completely worthless. satan wants us to buy his counterfeit jesus and miss the genuine JESUS. The counterfeit jesus makes you work and work and obtain NOTHING in fact you work your way to hell. The genuine JESUS saves us completely. He pays our sin debt. He credits our account with HIS Righteousness He does it as a FREEE GIFT because He loves us!! There could NOT be a greater difference between the GENUINE and the counterfeit. Honestwitness i would have a discussion along this line with my husband. WHO DO YOU SAY JESUS IS?? AND WHAT DID HE DO FOR YOU??? These are the questions that determine our eternity!!! Let him talk and write down what he says ...later Later compare the Jesus of the Bible with the jesus of the OTHER cults and see if a light bulb comes on for your hubby. Later still compare the sda jesus to the true Jesus. We have to speak the truth boldly in love. LOVE goes through all the walls of resistence BUT it will NOT set the captive free. TRUTH sets the captive free but only IF spoken in LOVE IF you speak from your heart of love for your husband and fear for his eternity and NOT i am right and you are wrong.... BOLDNESS comes from pure motives and NOTHING to lose. It is better to die doing right than to live doing wrong. It is better to risk losing a marriage than to save the marriage and lose the husband for eternity. What do you have to lose??? What are you afraid of losing ??? You have to put THAT on the altar and not let satan make you useless because you are afraid of losing THAT. When satan has nothing in you... you have nothing to lose... you are a living sacrifice THEN you will have victory over the enemy of God. No one goes to battle without counting the cost!!! "He is no fool, who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose". Jim Elliot Put what you fear losing IN God's hands. Fear God and God alone and then you are ready to go into battle. Honestwitness, my heart breaks for your situation i do know how difficult it is and how much it costs. i will be soooo lifting you before the throne of God. Father i do lift up Honest Witness and her husband that she loves so much. i know you love him even more than she does and it is Your will and Your desire that he come to know Your Son the genuine Jesus. i ask You to break every lie, destroy every deception, bind every spirit, that muddles his mind. Clear his mind, soften his heart, free his will that He might freely choose the TRUTH, Jesus is the TRUTH that sets the captive free. Father, give Honestwitness a glad heart of freedom, overwhelm her with your perfect love that casts out fear. Anoint her for this time, prepare her as your prepared Esther to go before the King. Give her the right heart, and spirit and words to speak and Father let not one word of life and truth be lost but let every word take root in her husband's heart. Help HW not to dig up the tender plants to see if they are growing but to wait on You for the time and and the results. in the precious Name of Jesus i pray amen HonestWitness i would be glad to fast with you three days before you have a talk with your husband. Only one thing is needful to sit at His feet and learn of HIm much love handmaiden | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10477 Registered: 12-2003 |
Honestwitness, I'll let Jeremy answer your question himself--but I also want to address it. First, there is the reality that wherever we look—Adventism or overt paganism—there are people who are open to knowing the True God. God is calling them, and they are responding to the evidences of Him that they encounter. In Adventism there are these people as well. They may not yet be born again (likely aren't), but God is drawing them. Ultimately, God draws these people to Himself, they accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour and Lord, and they realize they cannot stay in a false religion any longer. There are those within Adventism—especially converts who were born-again Christians before being deceived into Adventism—who do understand the communion service to be about the Lord Jesus. You, for example, were likely one such Adventist. People who are born into Adventism or otherwise deeply steeped into it, buying it completely, do not actually understand that communion celebrates a finished work. They are not "celebrating" the Lord's Supper. Adventists generally dread communion and the accompanying "ordinance of humility". There is no day at church less-well-attended than communion Sabbath. To an Adventist, communion symbolizes facing sin again. Footwashing is necessary because it is a re-cleansing, a "mini-baptism", and it's necessary to do this before communion so one will be "worthy" to take communion. Communion is a time of deep soul-searching (in the observant Adventist), looking for unconfessed sins and begging God to forgive them. Adventists know that to take communion unworthily (to them that means with any unconfessed sins in their lives...think IJ—even one unconfessed sin renders one unfit for heaven) means they somehow bring a curse or "unblessing" on themselves. To an Adventist, communion is all about sin and confession and "mini-judgment". It is an extension of the fear and uncertainty of the investigative judgment. It is uncomfortable, a cyclical reminder that Jesus died, and they'd better be worthy of that. Today, many "evangelical" Adventists would deny this focus if asked, but under the surface, this is the way Adventists understand communion. It's a necessary ritual that means you're acknowledging Jesus' death, but it's not a celebration of hope or gratitude. It's more something they do so as to be "worthy" and obedient. Since no one "knows" they're saved, the foreshadowing of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is just one more fearful reminder that they'd better be observant and obedient and ready for Jesus to come. Jeremy is right that behind every false religion and false jesus is an evil spirit. Where else can these deceptions come from? There is no spiritually neutral place in the universe. Either beliefs are founded on Scriptural truth, or they are founded on falsehood. Either people are children of God and citizens of His kingdom, or they are citizens of the domain of darkness. So, even though a person may not be consciously worshiping a demon and may believe they're worshiping God, they are not if they are not worshiping the God revealed in Scripture. Muslims, for example, are deeply devout and certain they are worshiping God. But those who grapple with the complexities of their religion and want to know truth will find it. Jesus will reveal Himself to them one way or another. If we look back at Genesis, we discover that God held Eve responsible for being deceived. Yet He held Adam accountable for humanity's bondage to sin. In 1 Timothy 2 Paul says that Eve was deceived. Adam, however, was not deceived. He sinned with his eyes wide open. In Adam all die, Paul says in 1 Cor 15. Yet God gave grace to Eve, and at the end of Genesis 3, Adam names her "Eve"--which means "the mother of all the living". It is through Eve that the "godly seed" came that ultimately crushed the serpent's head. Eve is the mother of the born again, and God is their father. When we are born again, we move from being "in Adam" to being "in Christ". My point is this: God does hold people who sin with their eyes wide open more accountable than he holds those who are deceived. But the deceived are still spiritually dead. And as God presents truth and reality to them, if they refuse to consider it, they move from being deceived to being spiritually rebellious. Only God knows when a person has crossed that line. But from our perspective, we have to know that Adventism, for example, believes in a false gospel and a false Jesus. They use orthodox words to describe these false beliefs, and they use Scriptural proof texts taken out of context to support them. They look and sound "Christian". But underneath, they do not believe in Jesus as He is revealed in Scripture. I am speaking from my own experience...and I was an "evangelical SDA" for years. God didn't let me stay in my deception; He continued to "ping" me with truth and cognitive dissonance. And He uses us to ping those we love. He is the one who opens our hearts and minds; but it is not wrong to conclude that there is a demon behind the practices of any false religion, including Adventism. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 933 Registered: 7-2005 |
Thank you for explaining so well, Colleen, what communion means to an Adventist who was raised in Adventism. You're right that it meant something different to me, because I had always known it from the joyful gratitude view, thanks to my upbringing in a mainstream Protestant church. Even now, even though you explain it to me, it is hard to put myself in the mindset of one who always dreaded communion, since it was always a ceremony of gratitude for me and never dread. It really hurts to think that my "other half", the man I love SOOO much believes in a different Jesus. It is so very sobering to realize we're not praying to the same sovereign Lord. I do believe hubby is deceived, but I don't believe he is wilfully denying the truth. I think the veil just hasn't yet been lifted. I keep remembering that Paul said the veil is only lifted in Jesus Christ. Handmaiden, your words touched me deeply, especially when you wrote about Esther. The Lord has already brought Esther to my mind this week and I just read the entire book of Esther today. I know He is preparing me for a time when the door will be open for me to say something that will be well received. Thank you, Handmaiden, for offering to fast with me for three days. I'm overwhelmed at your spirit of self-sacrifice to offer that. I do believe in the power of fasting and prayer. In my own private way, I have been fasting and praying for many months for spiritual victory over the spirit of Adventism in my home. If you feel so led to join my fasting, I would be very humbled and honored to have your companionship in this consecrated effort. Jeremy, I know you're right about the spirit behind Adventism. I just have a hard time facing the fact that my own home is a stronghold of that kind of power. It's tempting to take the easy way out and just ignore the ugly truth. Thank you all for your kind words and your unselfish prayers. I'm humbled and honored to have you all as friends. | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2008 |
HonestWitness, You have a very precious heart and i am so grateful for the kindness in your words. i only desire to be useful in my Master's hands. i pray that He would pour His river of life and love through this cracked clay vessel and water the dry and thirsty ground around me. i went down to the little coffee shop at my facility today. i don't go very often and they change counter people frequently. The man who poured my coffee ... said "i know you are a Christian and i want to know what you believe about religion". i was able to share how God is not willing that any should perish so He made salvation a FREE GIFT available to all, who would simply receive it. We spoke for only a moment or two and then later he came up to my window and i saw his eyes moisten as i told him how very much God loves him and wants to have fellowship with him. i was able to give him an audio NT and a Bible because he did not have one. God is so sweet to let me share His heart with others. i tell you the truth you cannot out give God, whatever you give Him ...He multiples the blessing, very little can compare to the joy of that moment with a stranger. i have learned long ago that the more i die to self the more i can live for Christ. The more i empty myself of me the more i can hold of Him. It is not a sacrifice, Honestwitness it is a joy unspeakable to be a partaker in what God is doing in you and your husband's life. i am the one who is blessed and honored to be included in this prenatal care, to be one of the midwives in birthing in this soon to be born again child of the living God. i am glad to stand in the gap for those my Jesus loves and died for. We are sisters in Christ, fellow soldiers on the battlefield and as Enoch says beggars, who now sit at the King's table. i will fast now, in this short temporary, snap of the fingers life, but oh, the feasting and joy in heaven will be forever and ever and ever. This coming weekend will be a 3 day weekend. i will be fasting and interceding for you and your husband. God bless you and i soooo look forward to see what God will do. much love handmaiden | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1278 Registered: 11-2007 |
Handmaiden. LOVE this:
Praying too!! Sondra | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10480 Registered: 12-2003 |
Handmaiden, thank you for your amazing heart and intercession for people! You are a gift to the body of Christ and to our particular portion of the body especially! Honestwitness, I totally resonate with your realization. I am praying. Colleen | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 165 Registered: 7-2008 |
i have the new heart HE gave me. my only love is poured in from HIM, my only strength i draw from HIM. i am nothing without HIM. i have nothing without HIM. HE is my all and all my everything....my JESUS |
