| Author |
Message |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 305
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 11:59 am: |     |
Hec:"I suppose that in heaven there will be a section for LEGAL immigrants and a section for illegal immigrants."
Hec, I am not saying that. I am saying people who want to come here to live should come here LEGALLY and once they are here those who are ABLE to work should be trained for work and should support themselves and not be GIVEN everything. People appreciate things more and are able to maintain their self respect better if they are able to do things for themselves as much as possible.
Hec:"Somehow, I had the idea that Jesus did away with nationalities, genders, ethnicities, etc. That we were all one in Christ Jesus. Oh, maybe that's all talk, but when the rubber meets the road then we switch to the same ideas of the unbelievers. It's easy to talk, but hard to act on that talk.Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. "
I believe in the saying "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.. TEACH a man to fish and he will have food for a lifetime".
I am not saying not to do anything to HELP people ,,legals AND illegals... but the BEST thing we can do for them is to HELP them to help themselves.
We are to love them and pray for them and minister to their needs as far as we are able, but even Jesus did not go around giving everyone every EARTHLY thing they needed or wanted for a lifetime without them being expected to put forth some effort of their own. I get frustrated when I see people who I KNOW are living on the welfare system and not doing anything to help themselves except having larger and larger families so they can get larger checks, and those families make being in the "system" a way of life into the next generations... and I see them not just using the money they receive for housing and food and clothing,, but to buy the latest video games, cell phones ,ipods and expensive toy gadgets for the kids that a lot of people who WORK cant even afford to buy... does "helping" mean that we as a country should let everyone from everywhere just come here and get on the welfare roles and be "taken care of"?
There are even RULES for getting admission into HEAVEN ! “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
Jesus TAUGHT people what they needed to do, he didnt just go around performing miracles GIVING them every EARTHLY thing that was available.
I see a VAST difference between how Jesus ministered to those He came into contact with and what our Govt. is doing.
Otherwise....let's all just give everything we own to the government and let them take their multi million dollar bonuses and let them handle the health care system and everything else ... let them make all our decisions for us in every area of our lives. BTW : The Federal Govt employees will NOT have the same health care insurance that they want the rest of us to have !
And now I hear that Obama wants to sign into LAW that every male child is to be circumcised !
He says it is for cleanliness reasons and also to help in the prevention of the spread of aids.
Our Government now wants to take control of EVERY aspect of our lives.. right down to whether or not our sons get their little weinies whacked ! THAT should be a VERY PERSONAL decision. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2173
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 12:00 pm: | |
Something tells me that everyone in heaven will be there by rights: legally, if you will - having come in through the Door. |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 415
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 12:11 pm: | |
Skeeter, I haven't heard the circumcision rumor from anywhere but Rush Limbaugh. Have you by chance heard it from another, more reliable source? |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5495
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 1:09 pm: | |
Hey, Rush is the most reliable source on radio!
The reason he is bald is that he has pulled out all his hair listening to liberals!
My wife accuses me of having a bald spot on the back of my head, that my dear, is from hearing liberals whine! It didn't just fall out on its own.
Also its the liberals fault that I have hair growing out of places not meant to grow hair.
I'm growing bald and having to clip a hair off my nose that hangs down to my naval in three days flat.
That has got to have to do with the presence of liberals!
 River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5496
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 1:11 pm: | |
Or it could be from caused from people who claim to be a republican and are closet liberals! That is a distinct possibility. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 309
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 3:54 pm: | |
We have one friend who is a "Liberal" but is a closet Conservative.. his wife and inlaws are strong Democrats (Irish Catholic) and he goes along and keeps his mouth shut to keep the peace,,, but when in that voting booth he votes with his head and his heart. :-)
(Message edited by skeeter on September 11, 2009) |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 538
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:02 pm: | |
Letter I received from Focus on the Family about government-run health care being a "moral issue":
Dear Friends,
We've been sharing with you for the last few weeks about President Obama's health care reform plan, and its failure to specifically exclude abortion coverage and funding. Earlier this week, the president addressed Congress and the nation in an attempt to bolster a plan that has come under increasing criticism from concerned citizens during Congress' recent August recess.
It was a bad sign that President Obama and many Democrats thought the 1,000-plus page bill didn't really need to be debated, and should be rushed through Congress before the August break. Things got worse when supporters of government-mandated health care tried to discredit the scores of concerned citizens who were expressing their opposition to the health care reform plan at town hall meetings across the country last month.
Then, President Obama and Democrats supporting the reform plan claimed a biblical mandate for nationalized health care and charged their opponents with violating God's commands. In this week's speech he quoted the late Sen. Ted Kennedy in saying that government-run health care "is above all a moral issue" that is about "social justice."
Evidently, the president and the supporters of the health care plan realized a "pep talk" had become necessary to salvage the plan. But sadly, the president made it clear his speech that the concerns of millions of pro-life Americans--that this plan will require abortion coverage and funding--are nothing more than a "partisan spectacle" and "bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost."
In fact, a non-partisan organization from the University of Pennsylvania has confirmed that unless abortion is specifically excluded from the reform plan, Americans will be forced to pay for abortions. (Read the entire FactCheck.org report here.)
My staff and I are monitoring this reform very closely and will continue to bring you the latest developments from a pro-life and pro-family perspective. Focus on the Family® remains fully committed to defending preborn life--those who don't have the chance to make their voices heard in this debate. The next few weeks are absolutely crucial in this debate. The president's team has admitted that the debate is in the "8th or 9th inning." Health care reform in our country should not be used to create the biggest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:11 pm: | |
Obviously, some people are more vulnerable to believing bizarre conspiracy theories and fictitious sensational stories. This is why supermarket tabloids sell so well. To be fair, however, we surely can't blame this on Adventism alone. May the Lord guide us in deciphering truth in the midst of a culture longing for fables.
Dennis Fischer |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 540
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 4:16 pm: | |
Focus on the Family spews out "bizarre conspiracy theories and fictitious sensational stories"??!! I wasn't aware of that. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 311
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 5:20 pm: | |
Bb , I think maybe he meant me... not Focus on the Family...(?) 8-/
Anyway, I guess only time will tell if it is "conspiracy theories" or if it is a conspiracy of our Government. :-(
I sure hope it IS the former and not the later.
Francie |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1799
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 5:27 pm: | |
Bb,
Thank you for sharing the letter from James Dobson. There are more ways of killing people than just through abortion. What about lack of access to healthcare for those already born? I have the impression that his letter will generate many dollars for his organization. Why are the poor required to wait until death's door for emergency treatment and/or preventative measures? Requiring the poor or nearly poor among us to only get ER treatment is unfair financially, medically, and morally.
Sadly, the lower middle class (the majority who fall between the cracks for assistance) are required to pay a much higher rate for their medical services at hospitals. Hospitals typically give huge discounts to the insured by often only requiring an insurance company to pay a prearranged reimbursement rate of less than the 80 percent typically owed to policy holders. This can rightly be called welfare for the rich as well. Moreover, these generous discounts add to the cost of healthcare for all while enriching insurance companies through hospitals and policy holders. Uninsured, lower-income people are often paying thousands of dollars more than the insured for the same medical services at hospitals. Why do medical collection agencies fight health reform? It's all about money!
Dennis Fischer |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 541
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 7:21 pm: | |
The letter is actually written by
Tom Minnery
Senior Vice President, Government & Public Policy
Nowhere in the letter did they request funding. I know that they rely on donations, but the letter wasn't about asking for money, just informational.
There's no doubt that there needs to be reform. In fact there are many ideas out there for reform. But asking the American people to accept the amount of government control that is being forced on them is immoral, in my humble opinion. |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 418
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 4:15 am: | |
It's always interesting to me how intelligent, Christian folks with similar values can process the same information and come to two completely opposite conclusions. It's frustrating and completely fascinating I'm thankful for the freedom to expressing differing viewpoints. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 314
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 11:31 am: | |
Seekinglight,
I "DITTO" what you just said.
I guess if we all thought the same thing about everything we would be like little robots.. LOL
Sometimes it is frustrating... but at the same time I am thankful for our freedom to be individuals. I don't always agree completely with things I hear,,, but I do always learn something from other opinions, if I embrace them or not. :-)
Skeeter |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 128
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 5:11 pm: | |
The more dependent we become on government, the less dependent we become on God.
God is our source and our provider....not the government.
Jesus put the care of the poor into the hands of the church not government.
The more the government takes care of people the less the church does.
Jesus told the disciples to feed the 5000...when they could not.. He fed them.
He was teaching them to seek God for provision.
He did not instruct the disciples to go out and tax the people in order to provide food.
GOD IS OUR SOURCE AND OUR PROVIDER
George Mueller was a man of faith and prayer. A man totally dependent upon God to supply all of his needs.
My God shall supply all your needs accring to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
He operated five orphanages, raising hundreds of children, that he fed, clothed and educated. He never made a request for money to anyone but God. He never ever went into debt or wanted for what he needed.
At the time of his death it is estimated that God provided over 7 million dollars for his ministry in caring for orphans.
The responsibility of government is to protect or defend it's citizens to praise good and to punish evil.
“…a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
Thomas Jefferson
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of TAKING CARE of them.” – Thomas Jefferson
Nations crumble from within when the citizenry asks of government those things which the citizenry might better provide for itself.” Ronald Reagan.
What a brilliant understanding of the role of government and human nature.
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them,
and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for,
that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
Sometimes and very often is a peson's very NEED that brings them to God.
Jesus healed one man at the pool ob Bethsaida, when there were many sick there.
We have to live by truth and not feelings.
WE are to be compassionate and love our neighbor. It is not the job of government.
LIBERAL: original definition - to be liberated from Biblical values
CONSERVATIVE: original definition - to conserve Biblical values.
The more we depend on government the less we depend on God.
much love
handmaiden |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 129
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 5:24 pm: | |
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less,
the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too, so they studied little.
The second test average was a D!!!!
No one was happy. 
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise,
and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great
but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that. |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 5:47 pm: | |
Handmaiden,
I agree with you totally. Sounds like you may have also studied the history of the Plymouth Colony the first couple of years after the mayflower landed.
If they would have continued to pratice "Obama economics", my Mayflower ancestor would have starved to death and I wouldn't be here.
How many of your fellow employees say this where you work? 
Fearless Phil |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 141
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 1:56 am: | |
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
How many times does socialism have to fail before people realize that it does not work!!!
i was actually able to go to the 400th anniversary of the founding of Jamestown 1607 to 2007. It was quite intersting to see the site and the reproduction of the colony and indian village and the three small ships that brought over the colonists...the Godspeed, Discovery and the Susan Constant.
The colonists were eager to make their fortunes in the new world by filling their pockets with its gold and many spent much time searching for it.
FEW spent time planting and growing food which was put in common and ALL ate. As time went by more and more looked for gold or did nothing and fewer and fewer planted and produced food. Soon the food was in short supply and John Smith insisited that those who did no work got no food.
As the Bible instructs in 2 Thess 3:10 ...if anyone is unwilling to work then he is not to eat either.
The Bible is so wise in so many areas if only we would listen and learn its ways.
No, Phil there are not many where i work who have wisdom and common sense like you and i do or Biblical values either.
They have bought obama's promise of hope and change. i am afraid he is destroying America from within with barely anyone taking notice. He has taken America waaaay off the gold standard instead of keeping a narrow differnce. he is printing money like there is no tomorrow, making our money absolutely worthless. he spent more in his first 100 days as president than all other U.S. presidents combined. This country fought for independance from England because of the high taxes it forced on the colonies...the tea tax, stamp act and more "intolerable" taxes. No taxation without reprsentation became our battle cry and we threw the tea overboard. Give me liberty or give me death the shout of Patrick Henry. But obama intends to have us all turn over our paychecks and work as slaves and our children and our children's children if the Lord taries, to pay off the debt he is running up into the multiple trillions already he has doubled our national debt and has made a proposal to double it again in the next 10 years!!!!!!! i truly fear the direction he is taking this country in sooooo very many ways.
Even so come quickly Lord Jesus
love
handmaiden |
Ardyj
Registered user
Username: Ardyj
Post Number: 104
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 2:28 pm: | |
Thank you Handmaiden, for those quotes and your thoughts. I completely agree! Especially, "even so come quickly Lord Jesus"
Ardyj |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5521
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 12:23 pm: | |
A nation deserves the president it puts in office.
The opposite on the ticket were both Christians,one of them served his country well and confessed Jesus as his lord and savior, the other had her church pastor pray for her to serve her country well. Jesus continues to be their Lord and savior.
I hear people say they were afraid of the opposite
ticket, to old and tired, spent too many years in a prison camp.
Afraid of a Christian who served his country with honor, suffered for his country with honor.
This country chose!
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5522
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 12:24 pm: | |
Yes Handmaiden. Thank you for the truth. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1801
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:49 pm: | |
Since no form of government is perfect in this sinful world, we all noticed that capitalism failed badly on Wall Street last year--even resulting in its leaders desperately begging the "socialists" in our government to help it recover from the very brink of financial collapse. Ironically, we owe alot of gratitude and money to the Chinese communists for helping us out. Not a rosy story!
Dennis Fischer |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 422
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 5:37 am: | |
Unregulated free-market capitalism often leads to socialism in the end and the breakdown of democracy. In theory, capitalism should work. However, in theory it assumes that people are rational. In practice, we know from research and from life experience that we are not rational. We do not act in our long-term (or even short-term) best interests. There are a couple of great books on this. One is by Noreena Hertz, British economist who used to work for the World Bank. It's called: The Silent Takeover: Global Capitalism and the Death of Democracy
It talks about how capitalism--at least the way it has worked in the past, trumps democracy because in the end, those with the most money hold on to the power. There's another economist who used to be president of the World Bank, I think, named Joseph Stiglitz who argues the same kind of thing. He wrote "Globalization and Its Discontents" and "Making Globalization Work." Both these authors have inside information on how the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) works.
Dennis you are describing what happens when unbridled capitalism has free-reign. It leads to socialism b/c the government has to take over the giant industries that are failing. If they did not do so, it would have been a disaster for all of us. Debt is also a long-term disaster, so either way, it's a problem.
Handmaiden, you mentioned conservativism means conserving Christian principles. Unfortunately, the political right in this country is not about conserving Christians principles, IMHO. It's about preserving money and power. The left is also this way, but the right has somehow captured the minds and hearts of many Christians (including James Dobson) to help them carry out their agenda. They rope them in with issues like abortion and keeping God in government, etc., but their other values are diametrically opposed to preserving the life and well-being of people. Again, the same can be said of the left.
So, anyway, all of this is pretty complicated, and River, we've gotta be careful of calling our own unique perspectives the "truth". The truth is that sincere Christians sometimes sincerely see the same information quite differently. Let's not think that our side is the "correct" one. I'm going to remember this myself! May God start with me |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 8:58 am: | |
Seekinglight,
Thank you for your comments. The study or science of economics is most complex as you rightfully indicated. It is so complicated that no single economist fully understands it. This sin-cursed world is waxing old and there seem to be increasingly fewer solutions to its many serious problems.
Sadly, the free-market system is often dominated with greed. The richest people in our midst talk poor--never having enough money. Money doesn't make us greedy, but it shows who is. One of my richest clients is reluctant to even offer me a soft drink--even though this person owns substantial stock in a soft drink company. Truly, the thought of loss is greater than the thought of gain.
Dennis Fischer |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 325
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:01 am: | |
Dennis:" Ironically, we owe alot of gratitude and money to the Chinese communists for helping us out. Not a rosy story!"
Well..... I would agree we do owe the Chinese Communists a LOT of MONEY.... but "gratitude"... I think not. They are not investing money in America because they are "friends" but because they have such a large interest in our country.
Unless America wakes up and SOON... our Great Grandchildren very well may all be speaking Chinese as their Native language. :-(
Please come soon Lord Jesus !
Skeeter |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 423
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:11 am: | |
Amen, Skeeter.
God is in control of nations rising and falling. He knows what He's doing. The U.S. is not infallible, but we have nothing to fear. |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 163
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 10:11 pm: | |
Catching Wild Pigs
A chemistry professor in a large college had some exchange students in the
class. One day while the class was in the lab the Professor noticed one
young man (exchange student) who kept rubbing his back, and stretching as
if his back hurt.
The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told
him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting
communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his
country's government and install a new communist government.
In the midst of his story he looked at the professor and asked a strange
question. He asked, 'Do you know how to catch wild pigs?'
The professor thought it was a joke, and asked for the punch line. The
young man said this was no joke. 'You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable
place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to
come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every
day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.
When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again, and you
put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat
again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a
gate in the last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to
come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them, and catch the
whole herd.
Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around
and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the
free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the
woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.
The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees
happening to America . The government keeps pushing us toward socialism, and keeps
spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental
income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies,
payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. While we
continually lose our freedoms -- just a little at a time.
One should always remember: There is no such thing as a free lunch! Also,
a politician will never provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it
yourself.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to
take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson
(Message edited by handmaiden on October 06, 2009) |
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