| Author | Message | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dennis, When you go buy a new couch, what do you think the mark up is? When you buy a coke at a gas station, do you know that 1 dollar drink costs them a nickel? Is that fair for the furniture to mark it up by 300 percent? Or is that ok because you don't have to buy that couch from that store if it is too expensive? In many states, Kentucky being one, no insurance companies want to market product there because of the damaging regulations the states inflicted on the insurance companies. These regulations hurt the people in the state by limting and driving off competetion. Of the supposed 40 million un insureds, nearly half can afford it but choose not to buy coverage. When I go from factory to factory, I see very few people taking care of themselves. They drink mountain dew for breakfast, take 5 smoke breaks a day, and drink a six pack of beer at night. But if you listen to the media, the insurance companies are cheating everyone. Seems like a little personal responsibilit would be more in order than a free Healthcare to all those who consistently abuser their bodies. The government would love to take over This industry and 17 percent of our nations economy. If we find ways to Dr regulate, the insurance companies would introduce more affordable options. There are no easy answers though. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1568 Registered: 6-2006  |
I still don't undertand what the problem is. I live down by the border of US/Mexico. (I can actually see Tijuana, Mexico from my street). Let me tell you, we have International healthcare! When I worked for a local doctor in town I was amazed by how many citizens of TJ have access to free healthcare, at least in California. I've seen this first hand. Pretty much anyone can sign up for it if they have a US address... | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1795 Registered: 4-2000  |
Grace alone, I realize the serious financial burden these illegals pose to the California State budget. However, without treating them when ill or even before being ill, they pose a serious health threat to the healthy population. Perhaps enhanced immigration enforcement would somewhat help solve this dilemma, but even if illegally in our country, they are human beings in our midst that deserve at least basic healthcare while here. Truly, many problems in this sin-filled world have no real, lasting solutions. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1569 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Dennis, I guess my point was that pretty much anyone can sign up for free healthcare (at least in California) if they have a valid address. The fact that many Mexican citizens can do it is an extreme, however really, anyone can. Leigh Anne | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1796 Registered: 4-2000 |
Leigh Anne, Apparently, the laws in your State are far more lenient than here in Nebraskaland. The other extreme exists here when health officials get national recognition for denying healthcare to the needy. Dennis Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5476 Registered: 9-2006  |
That is Leigh Anne, girl of the borderland An M&M in each cheek, a ball bat in her hand. To fight off all the would be loosers, for she is very strong. I am glad she is my friend, although with my poems to her. I might not be her friend very long!  River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5477 Registered: 9-2006 |
I may end up needing free medical care too. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5478 Registered: 9-2006 |
Or is it a Moral issue? | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 684 Registered: 7-2008  |
no comment from the Jungle | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5479 Registered: 9-2006 |
The lion sleeps tonight does he? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5480 Registered: 9-2006 |
Animal was my friend Till we had a horrible fight He jumped and snarled and swished his tail And we fought left and right We finally both, worn out from the useless frey Declared it was too much trouble to fight And we are friends to this very day That is where, belongs this thread Out in the yard, laying dead For friend are much to valuable, to even disagree As to whether we have to pay for medical care Or get it from Obama for free | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 299 Registered: 12-2007 |
Except for the free gift of Salvation... there aint no such thing as "FREE" . Obama is not our Savior. One way or other,, we WILL pay $$$$$$$. Skeeter | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 685 Registered: 7-2008 |
Good poem, River..wish I had your talent. Animal is a friend Who doesnt like to fight Whether he is wrong Whether he is right He tries to live in peace He tries to spread no fear Feed him popcorn and rootbeer And his heart is full of cheer So River ,my old friend Lay aside your cross and bow And allow the love of Christ To fill our hearts and grow And on that glorious day before us When sin and sinner are no more We can split a bag of popcorn hot And talk about the ONE whom we adore -Animal '09 | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 537 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow Leigh Anne, I can't believe you can see Tijuana from your street! I thought I was close! I am 7 miles north of Reynosa, MX. What's really different now is that the Mexican border towns are now like ghost towns; Americans are afraid to even go over to have dinner! | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 310 Registered: 4-2005 |
I see a moral issue if I have a choice to help someone and don't do it, just because i want to keep the money. I don't see the government taking my money by force (the IRS) and then using it to help people a moral issue I didn't get to make the choice. I don't think the Gov. has a very good record either. Take the mental health issue they closed mental hospitals, were going to establish community centers, and never did, they do some things. but their plight (MH pts) is horrible. I have volunteered for years in this area. Most of the homeless are mentally ill, and the Gov. left a huge gap of care that has been going on for years Public libraries are flooded with them during the day in winter, and it just goes on and on--You can't appeal to the Government on moral issues. Churches in our area are a big help, even restaurants--I could go on and on. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1797 Registered: 4-2000 |
Thoughts to Ponder *As Christians, we believe the biblical truth that if we don't take care of the sick and the poor we are rejecting Jesus himself. *Jesus, in his healing ministry, did not exclude those with pre-existing conditions, low income, or unemployment. *A study of the Scriptures shows God always admonishing the "haves" to take of the "have-nots." *Of course, health-care is a moral issue. If in doubt, ask any senior who thinks otherwise to voluntarily surrender his Medicare coverage. Likewise, would a sane veteran be willing to surrender his VA medical benefits? *If a government is unable to take care of the poorest and weakest among their citizenry then that government is not true to its moral obligations. *Not only is the question of health care a moral concern, but the way we conduct our conversation about it as well. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 411 Registered: 3-2009 |
Any money we have belongs to God. And governments are appointed by Him; therefore, we are told to submit to the leaders.
This is a good fact to take note of, but it is not a logical argument for saying the government has no business taking care of the disadvantaged. The argument also presumes that nothing at all can be done to improve government efficiency. In a democracy, the govenment is the people. If the majority of people decide to come together to take care of the poor, provide education, police protection, fire protection, etc, then I'm not sure what all the "socialism" fuss is about. These are simply my opinions, and I'm a hopeless idealist. I can't help myself.... | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 303 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ok, I have been reading on here and trying to avoid posting anything cause I don't want to make anyone mad... but I am gonna post now because I think some things need to be said... or I feel the need to get it off my chest... so either bear with me and read, or skip this post cause I am going into a rant mode here...you have been given fair warning....:-} Yes everyone should be entitled to receive the best health care possible. THAT is a MORAL obligation. BUT,,, having lived in California my whole life... I have seen that everyone (at least in this state)DOES have access to health care if they can afford it or not. The problem comes in when those who receive "free" health care (illegal immigrants mostly) will call for an ambulance and go to the emergency room at the slightest sniffle instead of driving themselves to the doctor. And those of us who work and pay taxes pay for that. Not long ago I was talking in our store to a man who is a EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) and he was on an ambulance call from a woman who had called 911, said her child was very ill and she needed an ambulance right NOW. The ambulance pulled up in front of her house and the woman was sitting on the front steps with a child playing beside her and the ambulance driver asked where the sick child was... it was the one sitting beside her who looked perfectly healthy... it turns out the woman called an ambulance because she said the child needed to go to the doctor and get vaccinations before school starts (she had a car by the way) the ambulance driver asked why she didnt take him to the doctor herself and she said "I'm not going to drive him to the doctors office and sit there in a waiting room for an hour." This was not a one time occurance,,, he said they get this type of call all the time. Then when they get a call for a REAL emergency often they are delayed getting there because of a shortage of ambulances. I do NOT feel it is right that because a woman from Mexico or any other country can come across our borders and give birth, that child is automatically a US Citizen. It should be recognized as a Citizen of whatever country the Mother is, Just as if a US Citizen goes abroad and goes into labor while there and gives birth,, that child should still be recognized as a US Citizen. I dont know how many people realize that the (immigrants) who were brought over here from Vietnam as "refugees" are given a FREE (to them not we who pay taxes)a place to live, $3,000.00 per month per person to live on, FREE medical and dental care, and food stamps? (now it is a card instead of coupons) Several years ago a whole VILLAGE of people were brought over here and over half of them were set down in Fresno, Calif. because the govt. said their village had assisted our troops during the Vietnam war. Well... ok, so they brought hundreds of people from a remote village and set them down in a big city... gave them everything they need to live comfortably and what happened... a large portion of the young people formed GANGS! They dont know how to adapt that quickly to such a different way of life. Do I think we should help these people ?? YES ! I certainly do. But dont uproot them from their homes and land and country... Help them where they are ! Go over there and drill water wells, build them sturdy homes, put in some medical offices and a hospital, take them some farming equipment and show them how to use it to make best use of their crops.... do all that. But leave them in their Native homeland. Help them to have a better life there. Like the old saying goes,,, "don't GIVE them a fish, TEACH them to fish" Dont bring them over here and just dump them off and give them everything "free" and expect them to be able to keep their self respect and their independence. I am NOT agains ANYONE from ANY country coming here to try and make a better life for themselves. But do it LEGALLY. And those who sneak across our borders ILLEGALLY.... we should not have to give them a free place to live and free food, etc. Medical assistance if they need it YES. Then send them back home and let them go through the process legally if they want to make this their home. And WE who pay taxes are the ones paying for it. Ok, we need to help people, I fully agree,,, But it really upsets me that my husband and I have to work our hineys off to make a living and to be able to afford health insurance for ourselves and it keeps going up every year... several years ago the medical went up so much that we cancelled the dental we had and increased our deductible to be able to keep the health insurance.. Since my husband is Diabetic, has had two heart surgeries, (angioplasty and a 5 way bypass) and 2 knee surgeries,,, and still keeps working because he is too proud to go on disability and then to have to pay for people who come here to get everything GIVEN to them... YES, that upsets me. I give to charities and to causes that I believe are doing God's work as much as I am able.. but to be FORCED to give through my taxes to support those who are more able to support themselves that we are but won't even try because they dont have to... THAT upsets me. Just last week a military guy (marine) came through our store in uniform and he was spending a couple hours just browsing around town and he found something he wanted to buy. When he put it on the counter I put it in a bag and told him "no charge". He looked at me and said "are you sure ?" I told him it was just a small gift of thanks for what our military does for us every day. Sometimes I will see a young man in uniform at a Wal Mart, or Taco Bell or whatever and just go up to them and hand them a $20. and tell them "I just want to thank you for doing what you do" I usually just get a surprised look and a smile and "thank you". But I do those things because I WANT to, not because my govt. says I HAVE to. It makes me feel as good giving it as it does them receiving it. What SCARES me is that IF the National Health thing passes... we will have medicine just like England and Canada... If you are diagnosed with cancer or heart disease and are past a certain age, you go to the end of the line... you will usually die before your name comes up for treatment. If you dont believe it just ask some of the people who have brought their family members HERE from England and Canada (or any other country with Socialized medicine)for treatment for that very reason. (those who can AFFORD to) Seekinglight: "In a democracy, the govenment is the people. If the majority of people decide to come together to take care of the poor, provide education, police protection, fire protection, etc, then I'm not sure what all the "socialism" fuss is about." I feel the problem (the fuss) is that WE are not able to "vote" on this.. it is being signed into law by our "leaders" and THEY even ADMIT that they have not even READ many of the proposals. They have no idea what they are signing into law... they are just in a really big hurry to get it done. I love my country ! BUT .. personally...I do NOT at this time in our history trust those in control. We have a President who talks a good talk, but who has backtracked and outright lied about every promise he has so far made. :-( I recently learned the Govt. even now reads our online posts and emails.. so once we becoma a Socialist country.. (which I believe we are quickly headed for)I might be strung up by my toes for this post.. but I am just putting out there how I feel.(thoroughly frustrated !) Can ya tell ??? 8-{ | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 413 Registered: 3-2009 |
Point taken. However, at least we get to elect our leaders. Many countries don't have that privilege. And if you want to influence your congressperson, call them--every day--until this vote comes up. And ask your friends to do the same. If their offices get flooded with constituent calls, they will take notice b/c they want to be re-elected. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 536 Registered: 3-2009 |
I suppose that in heaven there will be a section for LEGAL immigrants and a section for illegal immigrants. Somehow, I had the idea that Jesus did away with nationalities, genders, ethnicities, etc. That we were all one in Christ Jesus. Oh, maybe that's all talk, but when the rubber meets the road then we switch to the same ideas of the unbelievers. It's easy to talk, but hard to act on that talk. Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. Hec (Message edited by hec on September 11, 2009) |
