| Author | Message | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2009 |
Can someone clear this up for me? How do y'all, on this forum, define evangelical Christianity? Evangelicals, as opposed to what...more liturgical traditions? Who are evangelicals? Name names. Name prominent churches and prominent pastors. Just trying to get some stuff straight in my head... Thanks in advance.. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5444 Registered: 9-2006  |
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. What is a Christian? A Christian is a person who carries with him/her the four pillars of the Christian faith. Who bears it about in their heart. We bandy about the word Christian like it was a commodity staple such as salt and people feed on it like wolves at a kill and it just rankles on me no end. I don’t know why it does, it just does. Maybe it is a weakness on my part, or my love for the New Testament may be the fault, or it may not be a weakness or a fault. Maybe it is just a penchant for wanting to be correct and call things by the names I think they should be called by by. For instance, it would bother me to call my car, a truck or electricity, cement or two inches, four inches, or a man, a woman. When we call a man, a man, it denotes a vast difference in the sex. Men may desire to look like women, but they can never be a woman, at least not in this life time. A dog can never be a cow. You can dress up a man to look like a woman, and he may take on the appearance of a woman, but he cannot be a woman. A man has certain endowments that mark him as a man and, even if these endowments are removed, there are certain medical markers that still identify him as a man. Science has come a long way with DNA and has learned to recognize the certain markers in the DNA that has freed prisoners, who were unjustly sentenced to prison for a crime. He may be guilty of another crime, just not the one he was sentenced on and he obtains his freedom because the DNA tells the story. Christians, according to biblical concepts, has certain markers and they are the four pillars of the Christian faith. Like DNA one cannot destroy a marker. We use markers all the time to distinguish between such substances as aluminum and steal, concrete and asphalt, men and women. If we call a man, a woman, we are not truthful or accurate, we may be honestly mistaken, but being honestly mistaken does not make it truthful, nor accurate. We may not know the difference between a man and a woman, and call a woman a man, but we are not accurate if we do. Bill Clinton brought shame on the office of the president when he said, “It depends on what is, is.” Trying to avoid truth, he attempted to destroy the marker of truth. In doing so he brought shame on the office of the presidency which we hold certain truths to be expected, and he swore to carry those truths out when he took the oath of office. The four pillars of the Christian faith are the markers of a Christian and cannot be destroyed which are these. 1. Believe that Christ died and rose the third day. 1 Cor 15:1 and Romans 10: 9,10 2. Sola fide, by faith alone. 3. Christ deity. 4. Absolute and complete atonement for our sins at the cross. No matter you study your Bible, you will find the four markers inevitably tied together, you might say that they are the DNA of those disciples who were first called Christians at Antioch. The ones who assembled themselves together that year and taught much people, carried those markers. You cannot destroy truth, nor can you make untruth, truth, or truth, untruth. This came home to me even more so when I was reading the testimony of a certain former Adventist. This is the statement she made: Seventh-day Adventism teaches that Sabbath-keeping is a requirement for salvation. Though salvation may begin by faith, in order to remain saved, a believer must continue in Sabbath-observance. If one should fall short of that requirement when the books of the Investigative Judgment close, even the blood of Christ cannot cover that failing. You might say, and be very accurate, that these are the markers of Adventism, the indelible markers that mark them and the markers are very easy to tell from the markers of those who were first called Christians at Antioch and carried the name forth to form the basics of what we call ‘true churches’, churches that hold certain truths to be inevitable. And so it just rankles on me to no end when I hear people make the wild claim that they were Christians while they were Adventist, or that Adventist are Christians and drag out the old ‘Sincerity clause’, why? Well, it is not accurate or truthful. They may be honest in their misconception, but it is still a misconception. When I have to take my drivers test, I do the best I can to get the answers right, not only to pass the drivers test and thus regain my driving privileges, but my life and the life of others may depend on how accurately I am with my driving, and yet I never get 100% of those multiple choice questions right. Somewhere in there I had a misconception of a truth and so I go back and find the correct answer and try to remember it as I head out onto the street with my new driving license. To some, as long as they pass the test, they don’t even care one little bit that they got five or seven of these questions wrong, just as long as they passed. Truth and responsibility holds no value to them. They are out there driving with just a passing knowledge of the rules of the road. Well…seems to me, since Christianity hold much more importance than a drivers license, shouldn’t we be more accurate about the markers of Christianity? I have asked employees to do a job, then when I inspected the work, they were disappointed when I said I would pass the work, but it was sloppy. Yet we accept sloppy work in our churches as if it was nothing. You walk on two legs and say “Jesus saves” you’re a Christian. Passed. To me that is beyond sloppy, I’m sorry, but it is. That’s the truth of that. All the marker I can see is that it is sloppy and I don’t wouldn’t want that person to be doing any cooking for me in the near future. If I ask my wife for a steak dinner and she slaps a frozen ‘T’ Bone on a plate and says “Here, here’s your steak dinner.” I am going to feel a little miffed! A frozen steak has the possibility to become a steak dinner, but all the markers of a steak dinner are not there and she knows it, and I very well know it. Yet we handle the word Christian like a frozen ‘T’ Bone, God help us to do better than that. Many folks who are coming out of Adventism ask the question, “What should I look for in a church.” My answer is this, do they confess the four pillars of the Christian faith, do they bear about the markers of a Christian. These are minimum requirements for me, and if they say they confess these four pillars and yet teach some kind of legalism that denies one of these tenets, be sure their sins will find them out, because these tenets are rock solid. If one goes missing, the DNA of the Christian will not match up and they are not Christians. Lay this DNA alongside the 28 fundamentals of the Adventist faith, the Morman faith or any number of others and one will very soon see that they are not Christians. They do not bear the markers of a Christian. You say, “Oh, they are Christian at heart”, no they are not, they are Adventists. What kind of a deal is it to have been an Adventist and claim you never were, who are you lying too, someone else or yourself? The four pillars of the Christian faith are not necessarily something to proclaim, you bear it about in your heart, but it will usually show up in the statement of faith even, and it will show up in the services at one time or another, because these are the DNA markers of a Christian. Rock solid. I walked into a Catholic church with a friend and before the sermon was finished I saw that the DNA was missing and in its place was works, what tries to replace the Christian DNA is works, attempts to follow the old law and such like. Even as a young and ignorant Christian, I immediately felt as if I had fallen among thieves, thieves that would steal my joy. You see, Christians bear the DNA about joyfully in their hearts. If you go back down to the Adventist Church, having become a Christian, you will now feel out of place, because those indelible markers are not there. DNA of one sort seeks out DNA of the same sort. If you compromise with them, the crows will pick at you guts, and you will not be happy. Once having the markers, you are marked. Why do I keep harping on the four pillars of the Christian faith? Because I believe it is the DNA of a Christian, the markers of a Christian and it identifies my brother or sister from those who sell their birth right as Esau. The four pillars of the Christian faith are not for sale and you cannot steal them, for they are affixed indelibly on my heart. River | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2009 |
i guess i didn't state my question clearly. I'm not arguing or asking if Adventists are Christians. I'm interesting in the terminology of evangelical Christian? Would a Lutheran be an evangelical? (I'm guessing not.) What about a Baptist, Methodist or those in the Covenant Life churches? All protestants aren't evangelical, or are they? Sorry if my original post was confusing... | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5445 Registered: 9-2006 |
As far as I know Evangelical (or)euangelion means gospel or good news and is probably a much misapplied term and most people use it loosely as pointing in a general direction. As far as I can see, the word evangelical really does not apply to any church accurately, while the other word 'Christian' used along with it does. Most churches I would think, including Adventist, Mormon and JW think they have the good news. Using the term loosely, and applying it to Leigh Anne, who is a Lutheran, I would definitely call her an evangelical Christian, or Raven too. If I do so I am simply meaning a sister, not by blood, but in spirit. I doubt if the term "evangelical Christian" really holds any meaning that make much sense. I are one, that's why I ain't got no sense.  River | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1563 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Cloudwatcher ~ I agree with River in his description. Basically it's a simple term referring to active Christians. Even though I belong to a traditionally liturgical church (Lutheran) I consider myself an evangelical Christian - a person who is active in my faith. Honestly, I look at the word "evangelical" as more of a replacement for the phrase "born again", which was popular a few years ago. It's more mainstream, and probably easier to relate to. It's certainly a general term, and I believe applies more to mainstream protestants whether they're liturgical denominations or Charismatic or non-denominational. I don't believe Catholics consider themselves evangelical, although I've met some who belong to specifically evangelical parishes. And I've also come across SDA's who consider it a "dirty" word, if you know what I mean. That's my take on it - I'm sure others have their own ideas. Leigh Anne | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 325 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hope This Helps. Pegg | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2009 |
Perfect. Pegg and Leigh Anne, your explanations really helped. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1559 Registered: 7-2003  |
Cloudwater, In modern popular/common usage, the term "evangelical" is genrally used as a qualifier to distinguish between protestant Christians who believe in the Bible, the essential tenants of the Christian faith, and the gospel of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. Evangelicals have a strong focus on preaching the gospel because they understand the good news of faith in Jesus to be the only way of salvation.This differentiates them from liberals which tend to see Christianity as more of a cultural or social grouping and who often minimize or deny essential tenants of Christianity. So you can't necessarily apply the term broadly to an entire group. You mentioned Lutherans so I will use that as an example. There are some synods and individual congreatations within Lutheranism which are undeniably strongly evangelical. There are also some synods and some congregations which tend towards liberalism. Something similar could be said for almost any denomination. I think there is even an argument for saying that there are individual Adventists who are more or less evangelical in their personal beliefs (although I strongly deny that Adventism as a defined belief system is evangelical). Chris | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 511 Registered: 3-2009 |
I have two questions: 1. River, who decided that those four pillars are the four pillars? 2. Can a evangelical not be Christian and a Christian no be evangelical? Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10349 Registered: 12-2003  |
To build on what Chris just said--sometimes there is a distinction between "evangelical" and "mainstream" Christianity--and, I would argue, now there is perhaps a third distinction: emergent. In general, "mainstream" denominations tend to have liberal descriptions of Scripture and would not say it is "inerrant". Yet, as Chris mentioned, there are people and groups within many mainstream churches that do believe Scripture is inerrant and completely reliable. And example of what I mean can be seen among many Episcopal churches. While their creed may be orthodox-sounding, as a denomination they have adopted practices which deviate from biblical teaching. They would not say Scripture is inerrant, and they have voted to allow gay priests. Quite a lot of Episcopalians who do hold to the inerrancy of Scripture have moved their membership from Episcopal to Anglican churches, putting themselves under the authority of bishops who are often in distant places, such as Africa. Emergent churches, on the other hand, also see the Bible as pretty relative instead of absolute, but they are characterized less by denominationalism than are mainstream churches. On the surface they resemble evangelical churches, but they do not hold to Christ Jesus as the only way to salvation. They often are characterized by emphasis on doing good deeds and saying All people—Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, etc etc can worship together and enjoy what each one understands about God. They would be less likely to distinguish between Christ-followers and non-Christ-followers. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1036 Registered: 7-2007 |
I think an "evangelical" is someone who is interested in "evangelizing" the lost - telling the good news of salvation. I, myself, am a bit confused as to which churches fall into the category of evangelical; but I think any church that believes in the inerrency of the Bible and believes that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation (unlike churches that add works, such as SDA and RCC). I'm not sure just which churches are though. Maybe Baptist, Calvary Chapel, Assembly of God, etc.? And I think the non-denominational Christian fellowship that I go to, is also evangelical. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1174 Registered: 11-2007  |
So.. is evangelical another nicer name for fundamentalist?? Or is there a difference? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5454 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hec asks: I have two questions: 1. River, who decided that those four pillars are the four pillars? Hec, you are thinking in terms of mans theory, these are spiritual terms that just gel in scripture. All four are undeniable and rock solid, interwoven in the Gospel of Christ. If you deny any one of these you make the cross of Christ of non-effect. In your condition right now, you are very watchful and that is as it should be. But instead of being in such a hurry to get your dukes up over these things, you might give it some thought. None of us arrives at these conclusions over night, but as God gives us the grace to grow. Even our growth depends on him. Formers are gun shy, thats a fact. Too much gunshyness inhibits learning. Time and space does not allow for a complete theology course here, so you will have to answer your own question. In time the Holy Spirit will help you to know the answer to your question. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 514 Registered: 3-2009 |
Does any one here know anything about Calvary Chapels? Are churches affiliated with Calvary Chapels Gospel churches which teach the Bible the "right" way? Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10355 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sondra, actually, yes! A few years ago my boss, the principal at Arrowhead Christian Academy where I was teaching, explained to me the "fundamentalist/evangelical" "thing". In a nutshell, the word "fundamentalist" had become sort of pejorative, standing for rigid, conservative, closed-minded thinking among many people. This happened somewhere around the 40s or 50s, as I remember. Originally the word Fundamentalist had been used to describe people who subscribed to the fundamentals of the Christian faith, but it had morphed into a connotation of rigid and closed. About the time the magazine Christianity Today launched, the name "evangelical" was adopted to stand for those who embraced the "fundamentals" of the Christian faith. Now, however, the word "evangelical" is beginning to connote things beyond the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and in some circles, "fundamentalist" is beginning to revive as a descriptive name for "fundamentalists" who embrace the fundamentals of the Christian faith. So yes, your question is good, and essentially the answer is yes. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10356 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, every church is different, but in general Calvary Chapels are committed to preaching through the Bible, in context, a book at a time, inductively. A great many of them have awesome teaching. Some Calvary Chapels have issues; it always pays to visit and ask God to direct you. Mark Martin is a Calvary Chapel pastor. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5458 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hec, the problem with churches is they got people innem'! | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 107 Registered: 7-2008 |
www.GotQuestions.org Question: "What is an Evangelical Christian?" Answer: To begin, let’s break down the two words. The term "Christian" essentially means "little Christ." "Christian" is the term given to followers of Jesus Christ in the first century A.D. (Acts 11:26). The term "evangelical" comes from the Greek word that means "good news." Evangelism is sharing the good news of the salvation that is available through Jesus Christ. An evangelical, then, is a person dedicated to promoting the good news about Jesus Christ. Combined, the description "evangelical Christian" is intended to indicate a believer in Jesus Christ who is faithful in sharing and promoting the good news. In Western culture today, there are many caricatures of evangelical Christians. For some, the term "evangelical Christian" is equivalent to right-wing, fundamentalist Republican. For others, "evangelical Christian" is a title used to differentiate an individual from a Catholic Christian or an Orthodox Christian. Others use the term to indicate adherence to the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. In this sense, an evangelical Christian is a believer who holds to the inspiration, inerrancy, and authority of Scripture, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and salvation by grace through faith alone. However, none of these is inherent in the description "evangelical Christian." In reality, all Christians should be evangelical Christians. The Bible is consistently instructing us to be witnesses of the good news (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1-4; 1 Peter 3:15). There is no better news than Jesus! There is no higher calling than evangelist. There is no doubt that holding to the fundamentals of the Bible will result in a certain worldview, and yes, political belief. However, there is nothing about being an evangelical that demands a certain political party or affiliation. An evangelical Christian is called to share the good news, to preach God's Word, and to set an example of purity and integrity. If these callings require political action, so be it. At the same time, evangelical Christians should not be sidetracked into abandoning our highest calling—sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. © Copyright 2002-2009 Got Questions Ministries. |
