| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 580 Registered: 8-2008 |
I was debating some Messianics on CARM, and one of them quoted Paul as saying, "I'm a Pharisee." The poster's point was that even Paul tried as a Christian to dutifully observe the Torah. I knew what he was referring to, and I replied with the full quote from Philippians 3:4-7: The context is clear that Paul is not describing what he is now, but what he used to be before Jesus. I was thinking about it after posting my reply. I suddenly realized why this guy thought that Paul was still a Pharisee even after his conversion. You see, often people will think they believe one thing in their head, but their heart believes something completely different and will often rat them out to others. Very often, you will find some people saying they believe in something, and then the very next minute denying it. This is like when SDAs say they believe they are saved by grace, but five minutes later they'll be talking about how only those who keep the Sabbath will avoid the mark of the beast and hell. This reason this guy on CARM was saying Paul was still a Pharisee, is that deep inside him is the belief that the ideal Paul is the harsh, cruel Pharisee who went around pulling people out of their house churches and breathing fire and hate against them and pulling them out of their churches to stone them. This Paul is ideal to them because he did all this in order to be blameless in the righteousness that comes by the law. Since they prize the Law above Jesus, deep within them they prefer the pre-conversion Paul. Deep in this guy's spirit is an attitude of strong admiration for that awful Saul. He does not, deep in his heart, admire the true Paul who was converted on the Damascus road. He idolizes the evil, hateful Saul who persecuted Christians. Paul said that he was both persecuting the church and blameless before the Law. SDAs and other Judaizers who seek to be blameless, or righteous, by the Law, believe they can persecute Jesus' true sheep and still be blameless. SDAs persecute true Christians, for instance, by calling them Babylonians and Apostates and Little Harlots. They persecute true Christians by trying to get Christians to doubt their salvation by grace. Why do they do this? Because, rather than seek the true inward righteousness of Jesus' love, they seek righteousness by their own ability to keep a list of rules. They idolize the Saul who persecuted the church, because he perfectly kept all their rules. And they idolize anyone who, in seeking to establish righteousness by the rules, persecutes those who seek to be righteous by trust in Jesus. They do this because, deep in their hearts, whether they will openly admit it or not, they believe faith and grace are unrighteous, and the only true righteousness is their rule-keeping. As I have said before, if the law is the "eternal standard of righteousness," then there is no greater righteousness "apart from the law" (Rom. 3:21) by which we can be saved. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10375 Registered: 12-2003  |
Very insightful, Brent. I believe you are right. As Jesus said, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. (Sorry—the old KJV memory verse just rolled out...!) You're observing a form of proof-texting. Colleen | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 919 Registered: 7-2005  |
Wow, Brent! Your post is...well...excellent, and kind of sad at the same time. I see this kind of thing in my SDA husband a lot. He says he believes EGW was a prophet, but deep down he must not really believe it, because his lifestyle choices (mainly diet) go against her writings. He has told me that not everything she wrote was inspired. I'd like to know how he picks and chooses which things are inspired and which are not. I have opportunities to ask him this quite often, but I refrain from doing so, because I don't like to be confrontational with him. It's much more peaceful in our home, when I keep my mouth shut. But, you are right about the law and grace thing with Adventists. I originally got involved in Adventism because the Christian talk was appealing. But, it turned out the differences are quite vast, after all. Adventism and Biblical Christianity are like two lines that appear to be parallel. However, if you follow them out far enough, you finally realize how far off the mark Adventism is. Most untrained Christians, however, can't perceive the differences, because Adventism at first appears so much like Biblical Christianity. The difference is barely perceptible to the human eye, so to speak. But when an expert comes along and uses his finely-tuned measuring instruments, only then do most people realize how iunparallel the two lines really are. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1176 Registered: 11-2007  |
Brent, this is just one of the MANY ways they have to twist and misquote Paul. When they get weary of that, they just throw him out as a false teacher. I actually read a comment on a blog this morning that we should follow the words of "Yahshua" only and not believe anyone else that contradicted Him no matter where it was published. (i.e. the NT) You are so right - they love the old Paul and manage fairly well to imitate him! | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 741 Registered: 2-2008  |
I think another way SDA's do this very same thing is when they say "... well Paul kept the Sabbath after his conversion." | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 126 Registered: 7-2008 |
Wow it is amazing how twisted they become when they insist on believing a lie. It is all the sin of pride The first sin was the sin of pride, satan thought he could be above the most high God. Adam and Eve's sin was pride, wanting to be like God. Pride kept the Pharisees from recognizing Jesus as their Messiah. Pride kept egw from admitting she was wrong even after wm miller admitted his error. Pride keeps all legalists from humbling themselves before God and admitting they cannot keep the law and need the Saviour. Father, i ask you to bind the spirit of pride, pull down the strongholds of pride, break it's hold over those we love, who are being held captive by it's power. Loose humility and repentence and cause them to cry out for your enduring mercy and saving grace in the Name of Jesus. love handmaiden |
