| Author |
Message |
Jonvil
Registered user
Username: Jonvil
Post Number: 306
Registered: 4-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 7:34 pm: |     |
As I was reading through the various posts I asked myself, do I need the written code to remind me not to break them?
The law that came to mind was the 7th: ‘You shall not commit adultery’.
In 40 years I never invoked that law as the means to stay faithful to my wife. What a sham my marriage would have been if the only reason I didn’t sleep with an other woman was due to some words chiseled in stone or written on a slip of paper.
The law didn’t keep me from adultery, why is it so improbable that I never have because I love my wife.
Is the Christian life just a matter obedience to the letter?: I don’t kill my neighbor because the law says I can’t? Or does my love (the fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit) for my neighbor render such an act as inconceivable?
Matthew 22:36-40 (NASB) 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, " 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart , and with all your soul , and with all your mind .' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself .' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB) 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 15:12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 549
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 7:51 pm: | |
Jonvil, it is interestigng to me that when Paul gives specific instructions, and when James and Peter do so as well, they use as the basis of their instructions the fact that the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. For instance, James tells them to obey the Word planted within them.
The specific instructions in the Epistles are a means for the born-again believer to learn to differentiate between what is the Spirit's leading, and what is his own flesh. Because a human indwelt by the Spirit of God is a new creation, never seen before in humanity, we aren't born again knowing how to live in this born again reality. We are born again as spiritual babies. Just as literal babies don't know right away how to walk, we don't know immediately how to live by the Spirit. We still have a lot of ways of thinking and habits and passions hanging around in our bodies. We have to learn to live by God's indwelling, so we may from time to time need guidance in order to enable us to differentiate between our own flesh and the guidance of the Spirit.
However, I agree that the fact that so many people do not commit adultery only because of the negative spiritual or material consequences of the act, shows that sin still rules within them. The fact is in the Law came the assumption that people really wanted to do some of the things forbidden, which testifies of sin within them.
On the other hand, those who truly love their spouse do not need the command regarding adultery. So the very need for the command, in some sense, points to a lack of love within the person. I once heard someone put it this way: The Law is what you do when you don't know how to love someone.
(Message edited by bskillet on August 26, 2009) |
Brian3
Registered user
Username: Brian3
Post Number: 236
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 8:05 pm: | |
quote:Animal:Keep your theories about the covenants to yourself.
quote:Animal:This talk about covenants is a waste of time.
Animal, to each his own.
I happen to enjoy the discussion.
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.
(Pro 27:17 HCSB)
In Christ,
Brian |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1780
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 8:18 pm: | |
Brian,
The weekly Sabbath was meant to be much more than merely a literal day--even for the Jews. Its ceremonial or ritual aspects included special priestly sacrifices pointing to Jesus, the Lamb of God, and special Sabbath shewbread (each loaf imprinted with a cross symbol according to Alfred Edersheim, the highly-respected authority on Judaism) pointing to Jesus, the Bread of Life. John Calvin, in his Institutes, also looked deeper into the Fourth Commandment as follows:
quote:First, under the rest of the seventh day, the divine Lawgiver meant to furnish the people of Israel with a type of the spiritual rest by which believers were to cease from their own works, and allow God to work in them. Secondly, he meant that there shoiuld a stated day on which they should assemble to hear the Law, and perform religious rites, or which, at least, they should specially emply in meditating on his works, and be thereby trained to piety. Thirdly, he meant that servants, and those who lived under the authority of others, should be indulged with a day of rest, a thus have some intermission from labor...It is not, however, without reason that the early Christians substituted what we call the Lord's day for the Sabbath.
The resurrection of our Lord being the end and accomplishment of the true rest which the ancient Sabbath typified, this day, by which types were abolished, serves to warn Christians against adhering to a shadowy ceremony...The Romans were superstitious to make one day differ from another (Rom. 14:5)...By retaining the days as types of spiritual things, they insofar obscured the glory of Christ, and the light of the gospel...If superstition is dreaded, there was more danger in keeping the Jewish Sabbath than the Lord's day as Christians now do. It being expedient to overthrow superstition, the Jewish holy day was abolished; and as thing necessary to retain decency, order, and peace in the church, another day was appointed for that purpose. (Selected Excerpts from John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, pp. 250-253)
In summary, the Fourth Commandment includes at least the following ethical or moral aspects: sanctification (allowing God to do his work in us), physical and spiritual rest, an appointed time for weekly assembly and worship, intermission of labor for employees, meditation upon God and his works, devotion and loyalty to God, resigning our own will, yielding up our hearts, etc. May we rest entirely, and not lose sight of "the mystery of perpetual resting from our works." (Ibid., p. 251).
Resting in Him,
Dennis Fischer |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 644
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 7:57 am: | |
Brian...
I was wrong to post what I did and I apologize for posting without thinking things thru. Please forgive me if you can.
It is obvious to me that I need a break from this forum. Or maybe this forum needs a break from Animal.Probably both is in order.
Goodbye everyone. May God richly bless all of you.
Your friend,
Animal |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 359
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:39 am: | |
Animal, I appreciate your perspectives, and they will be missed! We all say things without thinking them thru first. Join me at the foot-in-mouth club :P |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 360
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:42 am: | |
Hey, Animal, I just thought of something. Whenever we're tempted to comment on something here on the forum, let's mull it over first while drinking a *root beer*.
(Message edited by seekinglight on August 27, 2009) |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 757
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:44 am: | |
Dear Animal,
I understand breaks ... but, if you would grant me one request ... would you stay on and read for just a little while longer ... I am getting ready to post something kinda sensitive to my life right now and I'd like you to read it - mainly cause I consider you a friend and in a selfish way I'd appreciate your prayers. I will post in the member's section soon.
You and your walk with Jesus have refreshed me on many occasions - would you mind listening just a little longer ...
In Christian love,
Keri |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 552
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:48 am: | |
Animal! If you go, who will be our drummer?! |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 262
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 8:54 am: | |
"If ya keep it simple, then the heart can be touched and a soul won for the Kingdom." (Animal)
Yes, keep it simple :-) Learning all the other "stuff" will come as the Holy Spirit leads, but for someone just coming out of a false religious system I think simple is better.
As Adventists we had years and years of learning complicated things...how the time setting and 1844 mistake was really ok because God "hid" information (how sick,, to blame God for their mistake )trying to make sense of the Investigative Judgment, what we should and should not be eating, what was ok and not ok to do during Sabbath hours, and of course it took years to learn... because those false teachings went round and round in our heads .. we were trying to make sense of the things they were trying to teach us and it took a lot of time because the "SDA gospel" is NOT simple.
Maybe that is one of the ways they keep so many people in bondage... there is so much to learn and we think if we dont understand there must be something wrong with US. THEY have all this knowledge, and why cant I understand it ? so we study Ellen White and see how she rebukes those people who are not living up to HER standards, publicly humiliating them and all the while HER going by the rule of "do as I say not as I do".
Then learning she was a liar and a thief ! She rebuked parents for not raising their children according to what she wrote and yet she left her own children in the care of others while she traveled the world selling HER books instead of bringing people the message of the BIBLE.
Telling others not to eat the "unclean" while herself eating oysters, duck, etc. But that still is overlooked because she is after all a "prophet" Well.... baloney ! or I guess I should say WHAM (vegetarian HAM) and thats another thing....why in the world would they want to make anything that TASTES like something that is "unclean "?
(and with the texture of sawdust if you dont swallow it fast enough)
Ok, I am off on a rant and off the subject completely here .. it just makes me so upset the more I think about it. All those STUPID, WORTHLESS things they pumped our heads full of instead of teaching us the BIBLE !
Lord help me if I could see that old woman Ellen right now I would have to be held back from smacking her upside the head and asking her "what in the world is wrong with you woman ???!" |
Brian3
Registered user
Username: Brian3
Post Number: 239
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 9:42 am: | |
Animal,
No offense taken. And I apologize if the way I said what I said came across as mean spirited. I too have inserted my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion. Please don't let this incident cause you to leave.
On one level you are right, the simplicity of the Gospel is beautiful. However, I also think there is room for fishing the deep waters of scripture.
In Christ,
Brian |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 486
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 9:55 am: | |
Boy, am I getting scared!
I have not been too long in this forum. I love it, and I look at it as a family. All families have their differences and quarrel once in a while, but they stay family.
All of a sudden, I'm seeing something that is really scaring me. Maybe the forum is doing what it is supposed to do and the devil is not happy with it. I don't know. I'm just rambling, but it seems to me that lately, we are very sensitive and get offended very easily by something somebody says without intention to offend.
For example:
- some one got very upset at River for some "words" he used and even wanted River expelled or suspended from the forum.
- I said something to River and to this day he still resents me.
- Brian3 said something and Animal gets offended and wants to quit.
Could some one with more insight than me explain what is going on? Why are we so touchy? Why do we take offense so easily? I am not going to include myself in this list because I am a nobody, but River, Animal and others here are very important for the forum. We get inspiration from them and we cannot afford to lose them. We cannot afford to be walking on egg shells either. So how do we "reconcile" those two things? How do we keep the freedom to express how we feel and what we thing without the fear of offending someone?
I need this forum. I need River. I need Animal. I need the others. And like me, many here don't have a home church yet and this forum is the only fellowship we have. I really don't want to see it divided by quarrels. What can we do? Please help.
Hec |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:36 am: | |
Hec,
In my online chaplaincy, I minister to Adventists, former Adventists, and non-Adventists on a daily basis. Admittedly, one must have "thick skin" on a regular basis when reaching such a vast assortment of people on a vast assortment of religious topics. I also use phone conversations throughout the US and Canada when requested. It is not uncommon for me to receive rude and threatening emails and for some people to even hang up the phone whenever their legalism or favorite topic is threatened.
In spite of some hard nuts to crack, I always remember that I too was a hard nut to crack for over a half century. I am eternally grateful to the many people who prayed for me and helped me see the simple gospel while still enslaved in a toxic-faith system. Who said E-vangelism is easy?
Dennis Fischer |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 361
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:51 am: | |
Hec, I hear you. I also miss Jim. Jim, if you're out there, please know that you're loved & missed! |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 106
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:32 pm: | |
They will know we are christians by our love one for another.
Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who despitefully use you.
love God and love your neighbor.
We are to be conformed into the image of Christ
we are never more like Christ than when we are forgiving someone,
who has hurt us to the very depts of our core.
We need to be kind, tenderhearted to one another preferring others above ourselves.
It does not matter how much one knows or does not know, if they do not know they are loved.
This forum is for hurting people.
Hurting people sometimes rant, sometimes are sensitive, .....
all people put their foot in their mouths one time or another. 
Remember love covers a multitude of sins
Beloved let us love one another and thus fulfil the law of Christ. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 1:33 pm: | |
Animal; I'm totally confused.... As far as I can tell, Brian just said an easy-going, relaxed, "to each his own" and then he added that he likes talking about that. Don't you want anyone posting anything about "covenants"?? Please don't shut people down who just want to discuss harmless things.
As for myself, if someone wants to talk about something that I think is boring, I just read the other threads and there are lots of interesting threads! And... if you are offended that Brian wants to talk about that --- why??? I'm bored when someone around me is talking about mathematics, but I don't forbid him/her to talk about it. I just wander off to find an interesting discussion. I'm just really really confused.
I don't know what the terms "Covenant Theology" and "New Covenant Theology" mean exactly. Maybe one is good and one is bad????? I don't know. The one thing I do know, is the thing that finally convinced me that the Adventist church is false, is that Jesus made the old covenant obsolete and brought in a new one; "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete..." Hebrews 8:13 and; "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant..." "For where a covenant (testament) is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives." Hebrews 9:15-17 |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 645
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 1:44 pm: | |
Asurprise...
If you would read my last post you will observe the following:
1 Animal confessed is wrong to Brian
2 Animal apologized to Brian for what Animal said
3 Animal asked for Brian to forgive Animal
I did all 3 steps for I felt moved by the Spirit to do so. Brian and Animal are just fine,
So...Asurprise..Why cant you forgive me and let this issue drop and go away? Please try,okay?
Animal |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1003
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 1:58 pm: | |
There's nothing to forgive, Animal. You did nothig to offend me. I'm concerned about people on the forum, that's all, and it's sad when people decide not to post. Are you feeling okay? From what you said, you weren't feeling well earlier. It just didn't make any sense for someone to be hurt like that, so I was confused, confused, confused!!! And I'm also concerned for you as well. |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 646
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 2:06 pm: | |
Asurprise...
I appreciate your concern. You truly have a caring heart. Thank you.
Animal |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 153
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:13 pm: | |
Animal,
I have always appreciated that you stick up for the simplicity of Christ. It is always a comfort to know that I can count on you to do this when the going gets tough around here. The simplicity of Christ doesn't always get the recognition that complex theology gets, just as silent prayer doesn't get the recognition that well orated prayers get. The truth though, is that silent prayer, and the simplicity of Christ is what gets results. Just wanting to say thanks.
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10304
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:05 am: | |
Yes, Animal, your perspective is needed and loved here. Thanks for coming back--and please don't stay away!
We do need each other!
Colleen |
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