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Bskillet
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Username: Bskillet

Post Number: 510
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just noticed this in Hebrews 12. I had never before seen what this text is obviously saying. The entire epistle is contrasting the New Covenant to the Old, showing how the New is far superior. In Hebrews 12:18-24, we read:

quote:

For you have not come to what could be touched, to a blazing fire, to darkness, gloom, and storm, to the blast of a trumpet, and the sound of words. (Those who heard it begged that not another word be spoken to them,for they could not bear what was commanded: And if even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned! And the appearance was so terrifying that Moses said, I am terrified and trembling.

Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God (the heavenly Jerusalem), to myriads of angels in festive gathering, to the assembly of the firstborn whose names have been written in heaven, to God who is the judge of all, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect, to Jesus (mediator of a new covenant), and to the sprinkled blood, which says better things than the blood of Abel.


Why had I never noticed this before. In telling us what we haven't been called to, the author is explicitly and specifically stating what Exodus says about the Ten Commandments being given at Sinai!
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 10218
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So true, Brent. Hebrews is SO clear! I also have been astonished at how I missed the essence of Hebrews until after I left Adentism I totally missed it.

Colleen
Pnoga
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was astonishing as I continued to learn that the old covenant was a covenant of death, condemnation and judgement. That is why God allowed death under the old covenant, He allowed the nation of Israel to kill off the nations along with the women and children. He is clearly pointing out the condition of sin. The new covenant is great as we have peace and take of the tree of life which is the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The old covenant was Satan's way, take of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil and you will become like God, becoming wise and knowing good and evil. We all like young infants need to feed on the spirtual milk (tree of life) and grow into maturety until Christ is formed in us, by the work of God.

Paul
Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 710
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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In seeing the contrasts in Hebrew, I finally realized all the things that the author touched on... Moses, Sabbath, sacrifices, the Levitical system, the High Priest and even the 10C's. These were all the things that the Jews were holding on to instead of Christ. None of these things even come close to Whom Christ is and what He accoplished for us.

Thanks for posting this Brent.

vivian
Jeremy
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Username: Jeremy

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Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Brent, thanks for posting that. I don't know if I had ever realized before, either, that it was speaking directly about the Ten Words and saying that they are what we haven't come to!

Jeremy

(Message edited by Jeremy on August 10, 2009)
River
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well...I have to say it has been a few moons since I first saw this scripture, but I still share your excitement over it, it just never gets old.

It still makes my heart jump with joy when I read that we have come to Mt. Zion, the city of the living God, adopted into his family and we can truly say Abba Father!

River
Bskillet
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Username: Bskillet

Post Number: 514
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

directly about the Ten Words and saying that they are what we haven't come to!


Yep, the author was writing to Jews, and in Judaism God's giving of the Ten Commandments on Sinai was, and still is today, called the Ten Utterances or the Ten Words. The author is directly referring to this when he speaks of "the sound of words" as "what was commanded."
Jeremiah
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 5:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the list of what we have come to. Our God is not a lonely God. He is surrounded by those He created. I'd say the list is a pretty good representation of the worshiping Church in heaven and on earth. This passage goes along well with the one about not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together.

Jeremiah

(Message edited by jeremiah on August 12, 2009)
Martinc
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is such a powerful passage, one of the richest. I have a question for the rest of you. What did the writer of Hebrews mean when he compared the sprinkled blood of Jesus and the New Covenant with the blood of Abel? He was just comparing the two mountains and covenants, and he then compares the two bloods. Some commentators think this refers to Abel's sacrificial blood, others think it is his physical blood shed at his death. What do you think? And what was the writers purpose in this comparison?
Bskillet
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Post Number: 515
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The blood of Abel cried out from the ground to God, demanding justice. The blood of Christ, in contrast, washes away our sin, bringing mercy.
Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brent or anyone else... in the verses quoted above,

"Instead, you have come to Mount Zion... to the spirits of righteous people made perfect,..."

What do Adventists say are the "spirits" of righteous people?

curious.

I was reading Jeremiah 3 yesterday morning where God proclaimed through Jeremiah (concerning the Israelites worshipping other gods) the following:


quote:

Jer. 3:14-18 NASB
'Return, O faithless sons,' declares the LORD; 'For I am a master to you, And I will take you one from a city and two from a family, And I will bring you to Zion.' "Then I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you on knowledge and understanding. "It shall be in those days when you are multiplied and increased in the land," declares the LORD, "they will no longer say, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again. "At that time they will call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the LORD,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart. "In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.




Maybe this has nothing to do with Hebrews, but as I was reading this... it reminded me of your post. I guess the part about "I will bring you to Zion" seemed to pop out at me. It almost seems to be a picture of the new covenant. Thoughts anyone?

vivian
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 10230
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting question, Martin. I hadn't thought about the juxtaposition of the comparison between the two covenants and the two bloods. I agree with Brent's understanding above...and this interpretation seems to mesh with the comparison of the two covenants.

Abel's blood demanded justice—and in the old covenant, blood demanded blood. Jesus' blood provided the justice Abel's illegitimately shed blood demanded. And that is the story of the covenants. The old covenant demanded justice: blood for transgression. The new covenant provides justice—in a most unexpected way. Justice is done, and grace is dispensed.

And Vivian, I do think the new covenant is in view. It's also possible that there's a foreshadowing of the millennium, too.

Colleen
Nowisee
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Username: Nowisee

Post Number: 72
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Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Can't wait to share this verse. I've never 'seen' it before! (Sometimes I don't see, no matter what my username is :-) )
Berit
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Username: Berit

Post Number: 59
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 4:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, this is a good text! I read it when I first studied the law and the covenants and it really hit me - so convincing. 2.Cor.3 is also very poverful.

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