| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 498 Registered: 8-2008 |
Adventists like to impugn other Christians for allegedly believing in "cheap grace." They say that Christians merely use grace as an excuse to avoid keeping the Law. But there's a funny thing about the term "cheap grace." It entered the mainstream Christian lexicon in a book by Dietrich Bonhoeffer entitled The Cost of Discipleship. Bonhoeffer said cheap grace was grace divorced from discipleship. It was a false grace that did not call the recipient to submission to Jesus Christ. It was forgiveness without repentance, a justification that didn't lead to transformation. Bonhoeffer wrote The Cost of Discipleship in 1937. It was, in a sense, an indirect response to the way the state churches had embraced Hitler and Nazism. They had consented to racial purity laws within their congregation, and generally supported and even worshiped Der Fuhrer. Bonhoeffer, in contrast, had already made himself a source of scorn when, two days after Hitler was installed as chancellor, he tried to deliver a radio address calling German Christians to oppose the Nazi regime. He thought Germany had succumbed to a horrible idolatry. He was right. But the German state church wasn't the only denomination that gave itself up to Nazi evil. Adventists like to criticize the Catholic church for its alleged complicity in the sins of Nazism. But they conveniently gloss over the fact that, though several private SDAs tried to help the Jews, the denomination itself, and most of its adherents, were an active supporter of Hitler's regime. Dr. Zdravko Plantak, one-time head of the religion department at the SDA Columbia Union College, wrote a book called The Silent Church: Human Rights and Adventist Social Ethics. In an excerpt posted on an Adventist website, Plantak describes how the Adventist church became an active participant in the Nazi regime. According to Plantak, Adventists schools embraced the Nazi brainwashing of children, incorporating Nazi symbols, nationalistic observances, and teachings into their curriculum. More, the President of the Seventh-day Adventist Eastern German Conference declared, "under no circumstances did any Adventist have the right to resist the government, even if the government prevented him from exercising his faith." Adventist writings took on the call of Nazism. Der Adventbote, the official periodical of the German Seventh-day Adventist church, wrote that "the National Socialist Revolution was the greatest of all time, because it made the maintenance of a pure inheritance the basis of its ethnic life." In their Morning Watch Calendar, the German Adventists shamefully wrote: For those of you who don't notice, the Calendar referenced Hitler's sacrifices for "his struggle." Hitler's famous book that laid out his philosophy was called Mein Kampf, or, in English, My Struggle. Clearly, this is an open endorsement of Hitler's philosphy by the German Adventists of the day. Plantak continues: Because Adolf Hitler let them keep their precious Sabbath, most Adventists didn't oppose the Nazi Regime. Corrie Schroder, student at the University of California, Santa Barbara, wrote a seminar paper dealing with Adventist complicity in the holocaust. Schroder details several interesting facts: 1) The official SDA church in Germany encouraged the Nazi government to investigate and ban the rival SDA Reform denomination because, in Schroder's words, the views of that SDA splinter group were "were far from German." So much for "religious liberty." 2) In exchange for being allowed to keep their precious Sabbath, the German SDA church offered to help cultivate a better image for the Nazi regime among their counterparts in the United States. The SDA denomination sent Hulda Jost, head of their church welfare system and leader of the Adventist Nurses Association, to the U.S. to convince American Adventists to support the Nazi regime. Now, to the credit of American Adventists, when Hulda began touring the U.S. spouting Nazi propaganda, they basically told her to cut out the propagandizing. 3) Though Adventists claim to believe in "separation of church and state," they allowed their well-organized welfare system to be taken over by the Nazi government. The Adventists actually welcomed this take over. And, without any pressure from the Nazi Regime, the Adventists required that no members of the SDA Reform movement were to benefit from its welfare program. 4) In welcoming the Nazi government's take over of their welfare program, they also had to consent to the application of racial purity laws to their welfare system. As such, they agreed to give no help to "Jews, anti-socials or undesirables." 5) The SDA church referred to the law requiring forced sterilization of the mentally ill the mentally disabled, epileptics, drug addicts, and alcoholics as "a great advance in the uplifting of our people." 6) Adventists saw fit to remove "Jewish words" from their denominational lexicon. They changed "Sabbath School" to "Bible School" and "Sabbath" to "Rest Day." 7) German SDA leadership wrote, "The pastors and members of our Church stand loyally by their Volk and fatherland as well at its leadership, ready to sacrifice life and possessions." Writes Schroder, "They were willing to sacrifice their life and possessions for the fatherland, but they were unwilling to do the same for their religious beliefs." Many German Christians supposed that, because they were under grace, they could compromise their integrity by winking at, or even taking part in, the sins of Nazism. Adventists, in contrast, believed that in order to maintain their Sabbath and the existence of their special remnant denomiation, they had to sacrifice everything else to the Nazi ideology. So next time an Adventist starts to lecture you about "cheap grace," give them this article (please give me credit). | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2009 |
This is shocking! Thank you for writing & posting this--I had no idea at all about this. Unbelievable! | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 697 Registered: 2-2008  |
barf... | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 547 Registered: 1-2007 |
I agree that I also did not know anything about this and it makes me heart-sick to think I joined them. If I knew then what I know now I would not have joined them. They would never have gotten their foot in my door any more than the jw or mormans. They are just a guilty of murder as the Natzi's. The only difference is theirs is spiritual murder. Gail | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 493 Registered: 7-2004 |
Don't you think a true prophet would have been given some insight into the coming turmoil? Even though she died in 1915, if she was able to visit jupiter and heaven and see ahead, why didn't she receive a vision to warn the German adventists what a horrible person hitler was?? She also didn't know what to say about the Civil war until it was over. For that matter, why didn't her visions involve life in the 20th and 21st centuries? We sure could have used some guidelines for dvd's, computers, abortion, tv, stem cell research, politics etc. as adventists. Ever notice that any area not addressed by egw (because it didn't exist) is up for grabs as far as interpretation? Maybe that's why the sda hospitals feel they can perform abortions; because ellen didn't give info regarding such things. Would she say we could watch G rated dvd's in our home, but not PG? Then if we went into another adventist home and saw that they owned PG movie, then we would know that they were not following the "light". Would she say abortion was not murder if it involved a deformed baby? Would she say it was ok to have basic cable so you could watch "Little House on the Prarie" but not extended channels like HBO because of the temptation? How would she feel about computers? Is it ok to talk to your friends on facebook on the Sabbath? Or browse through the adventist bookstore and plan on placing an order after sundown? I'm sorry, I am re-reading the "White Lie" and I am riled up. It is all such a fraud and so ridiculous!! | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 501 Registered: 8-2008 |
Because Ellen had a "vision" in which the fourth command was circled with a halo of light, and was therefore more important than all other commands in the Law, the German SDAs seemed to believe they could sacrifice their devotion to the Christ in order to preserve their right to keep the Sabbath. But didn't Jesus say the most important command was not "Remember the Sabbath day..." but "Love the Lord your God..."? And didn't He say the second most important was, "Love your neighbor as yourself"? Adventists violated both of these two most important commands in Scripture in order to keep the lesser Sabbath command that Ellen said was most important. Adventists like to quote a lot from the book of James, but evidently in Nazi Germany they didn't understand what this means:
| ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 951 Registered: 7-2007 |
First of all, I'd like to tell any Adventists reading this, who doubt that this happened, to click on the link that Bskillet provided and scroll down to the link where it says: "Church Leaders Say 'We're Sorry'" That's definately put out by the Adventist church - it has the Adventist logo and everything! Next, I'd like mention that it's impossible for anyone to TRULY put other people ahead of their own welfare - to TRULY be unselfish; without God's Spirit inside them. These actions show the true character of people without God. It's possible for someone to be truly converted BEFORE God leads them out of a false church; but the majority of people in a false church, such as Seventh-day Adventism, Roman Catholism, Mormonism, etc. would NOT be converted. All their behavior would naturally be applied externally by rules and there would be no heart change brought about by the Holy Spirit. It still saddens and shocks me though. I hope, even though I was unconverted while an Adventist, that I wouldn't have stood by, while many people were killed.  | ||
| Lifeanew Registered user Username: Lifeanew Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2007 |
Bskillet, What good timing in your post. I just came across that term "Cheep Grace" and was getting ready to research that. Bb, I just finished reading the "White Lie" last night. Does anyone know where Walter Rea is today? | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2008 |
I did not know how anti-Semitic the catholic church was or of its nazi collaboration, while I was still catholic either. Amazing how they are able to keep the past out of the present. If you study “church” history it is evident the catholic church has been anti-Semitic since its inception, when Constantine passed a new roman law requiring everyone to be a Christian. This filled the church with false converts and mixed paganism with Christianity creating the catholic church. Christianity mixed with pagan ritual = catholic religion. The original “christian” cult. It is not surprising that catholicism and adventism mixed so easily with nazism as all three were brought forth from the heart of the father of lies, the enemy of our souls and the enemy of God. All religion = something TO DO and something NOT TO DO to earn salvation and nazism appeal to the PRIDE of man. Pride is the first sin, the sin that caused Lucifer to fall. True Christianity is a relationship with God brought about by man HUMBLING himself before the foot of the cross admitting there is NOTHING he can do on his own behalf and accepting the free gift of God’s salvation. True Christianity could never partner with nazism,catholism or adventism. True Christianity began with Christ laying down His life for the church. It continued when the apostles laid down their lives to turn the world upside down with the gospel = GOOD NEWS OF SALVATION IN CHRIST ALONE It gained strength with the martyrs, who were willing to die for their faith. It continued with true Christians like Bonhoffer and the Ten booms, who were willing to lay down their lives to oppose hitler and save the Jews. It continues today with missionaries who are willing to die to tell others about Jesus and with Christians, who are willing to lay down their lives in many ways to share the gospel with their neighbors. The false gospel focus is on self preservation. The true gospel focus is on self sacrifice. The true gospel truly is fueled by love for God and mankind. love handmaiden | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10204 Registered: 12-2003  |
Ultimately, people either are born again and removed from the domain of darkness and transferred to the Kingdom of Jesus by the Father Himself, or they remain dead in sin and ultimately participate in suppressing the knowledge of the true God. The Adventist complicity in Nazi Germany tells its own story. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7322 Registered: 3-2004  |
Did the GC know what the adventists in Germany were doing when they were doing it? If they knew, how did they react? Diana L | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 494 Registered: 7-2004 |
Life, I don't know about Walter Rea, was wondering the same thing... | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1115 Registered: 11-2007  |
When I get ink back in my printer, that one's going in the file. I had never known any of that! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10210 Registered: 12-2003 |
Walter Rae still lives in Northern California and is still a member of the Adventist church. I'm not sure exactly how he balances the cognitive dissonance; he continues to do his research and has sent us a notebook documenting every page of Great Controversy, showing almost every page in the book has borrowed material. Last I heard, about three years ago when I talked to Walter Rae, he was still teaching a SS class at his local church. Of course, it wasn't a "follow the lesson quarterly" type of SS class, but teaching it he was. I don't know whether or not he still is... Colleen | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 497 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow, that's amazing that he didn't leave, his book seems to reflect more disgust with the system than any of the others I have read! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 953 Registered: 7-2007 |
That's really surprising to me that he is still an Adventist and teaches a Sabbath School class! Is he trying to change the SDA church from the inside out? His staying only gives credence to it! One horrible side effect of all these false "Christian" churches is that when they do evil things; non-Christians point to Christianity and say: "See? Look how horrible Christianity is?!!!" I just watched a youtube video on an interview on Larry King Live; between David Brickner from Jews for Jesus, and a couple of Rabbis. I'll see if I can put the link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6OOiKTt3_o Those Rabbis showed their feelings on what they thought Christianity was. When people say that they are Christian and do evil in the name of Christ, non-Christians believe them readily enough. The SDA and RCC churches that went along with Nazism, perpetrated the lie and really did the devil's work! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7325 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am wondering if because of the role of the German SDA church during WW2, the SDAs wrote and printed the book, "Flee the Captor" by a man named Ford and the subject of the book. I cannot remember his name right now. It is about a Dutch man living in Paris, France who was SDA. He helped Jews and captured Allied airmen over the Alps (Jews) and over the Pyrenees (airmen) into Spain. He did not carry a gun, had a price on his head and was captured by the Gestapo several times, yet always escaped. This book was published in the late 1960s. Just wondering!! Diana L | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2009 |
Colleen, Any chance of getting a copy of Rae's notebook? | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 787 Registered: 1-2003  |
I think I posted this once a long time ago.  Rae is a member at the same SDA church where I have a relative who is also a member. He is up in Central California. I understand he applied for membership back into the SDA church but was not accepted by several churches he applied to, until he persisted and was accepted into membership. Richard rtruitt@mac.com . |
