| Author | Message | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 643 Registered: 6-2005  |
I challenge you to read this verse with fresh eyes. Read it as if you have never heard of Ellen G. White, or the adventist claims that the "spirit of prophecy" refers to EGW. What can this statement from the Bible mean "....Worship God! for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" I have some ideas, but would love to hear what Holy Spirit reveals to others. Lori | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10182 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lori, isn't that amazing? Testifying of Jesus IS the spirit of prophecy--or, Jesus' own testimony of Himself IS the spirit of prophecy. Either way it works...and is a whole universe away from the Adventist interpretation... Other comments? Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5282 Registered: 9-2006  |
Here are some thoughts on that Lori. Johns temptation to worship the angel (see also 22:8,9, warns that idolatry may arise in the church when the messenger or even the message is idolized. The essence of all genuine prophecy is the testimony of Jesus,the witness borne to him. What this warns of is exactly what happened in the Adventist church, leading them into open idolatry in their claims that White is the spirit of prophecy. This text defines the witness or testimony of Jesus himself as being synonymous with (or at the heart of) the spirit of prophecy.Jesus is the center of it all, not Ellen white or any other person. Both the old testament and the new testament exist to reveal Jesus. Therefore to claim her as the spirit of prophecy is idol worship and it is evil at its core and in its essence. River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 936 Registered: 7-2007 |
All of the prophets of the Old Testament prophesied of Jesus' coming. Yet, somehow the Adventist church thinks that Ellen White is the one who showed the world that Jesus was the Messiah foretold by all those prophets. Here's Jesus' words in Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." Here's a place where Jesus is referring to the scriptures: "...and these are they which testify of Me." John 5:39 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5283 Registered: 9-2006 |
As the Lord begins to conclude his word to us he says this about himself. Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. In verse 22 it tells the final end of idolaters. River | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 644 Registered: 6-2005 |
Thats such encouraging insight! Here is another: Revelation 1:9 (written by the same author as Revelation 19:10) I, John.....was on the isle of Patmos because of the word of God and the TESTIMONY OF JESUS. In order to support the Adventist rendering of the "spirit of prophecy" in Rev 19:10 referring to EGW, then John would have to be saying that he was an exile on the isle of patmos because of Ellen G. White! (i.e. adventists say the TESTIMONY OF JESUS is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and they say the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY is Ellen G. White.... therefore, John was in exile because of the word of God and Ellen G. White??!! Hmmm, are you following me? It can't work! Lori | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7299 Registered: 3-2004  |
That would be crazy, Lori. It is almost laughable. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. Growing up in SDA schools and church I never saw that. I am so thankful, to our awesome God, I am no longer there. Diana L | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 680 Registered: 2-2008  |
... sorting out John 5:30-39 really made it clear to me what John meant when he wrote "testimony of Jesus". John says that the Father has testified of Jesus. Then goes on to say that the Scriptures (which I believe to be the Law and the Prophets) testify of Jesus. I see that the OT was God testifying of Jesus Who was to come. When Jesus came, His works testified that the Father had sent Him. So I believe that Jesus testimony is the very spirit of the Law and the Prophets because they testified of Him and He fulfilled them.
This then lead me to search out other verses from John regarding "testimony". I found 1John 5:9-13:
So to say that the "testimony of Jesus" has anything to do with EGW is to say that God's testimony wasn't sufficient. This is also stating that to not believe the testimony that God gave concerning Jesus is to not have life. EGW clearly gives us a different testimony of Jesus... one that says His blood wasn't sufficient to take care of our sins and to provide atonement for us at the cross event. To believe her testimony is to say that it's greater than God's testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of the prophets. vivian | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 599 Registered: 7-2008  |
Excellent post Vivian !!!!! Thanks for sharing | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2921 Registered: 10-2004  |
Good post, Vivian. I've had similar thoughts, with regard to connecting 1 John 5 with what John wrote in Revelation. Also, notice that 1 John says that we have the testimony in ourselves--I think this may also be referring to the Holy Spirit who indwells us, with the Spirit of prophecy in Revelation 19:10 also referring to the Holy Spirit. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on August 01, 2009) | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 645 Registered: 6-2005 |
Interestingly... If you tell Christians (with no adventist background) that the SDA church claims that Revelation 19:10 refers to a lady from the early 1900's who they claim to be their exclusive prophet, they are shocked! They say, without fail, WHAT??? the adventist's think that this text refers to a their prophet?! They are just dumbfounded. I am just finally beginning to hear the absurdity and arrogance of that claim, as others hear it. Christians are horrified enought to learn that adventist claim to have a prophet, (as we know this is kept sorta secret), then more horrified to learn that they claim that SHE is the One mentioned in Revelation 19:10. Its a deal breaker, and should be. If someone from LDS or elsewhere claimed that this text referred to their exclusive prophet, or to Muhammed, or another "prophet" in the modern age, all would be shaking their heads, even SDA's, at the audacity of the claim. | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2008 |
 Christians are dumbfounded when they hear many SDA teachings... I hear myself trying to explain SDA teachings and every time I do - I feel like I must be wearing a hat with floopy ears and a clown's nose. They sometimes get this quizzical look like - WHAT? HUH? Something I'm learning lately is that I was never taught how to study the Bible - meaning how to decipher things. Indeed, we are taught by the Holy Spirit and given spiritual discernment when we are born again ... so scripture is spiritually discerned through the Holy Spirit living in us - but I think we can learn some tools to help us when reading ... Just recently, I learned the following by a teacher in an adult Sunday School class - he mentioned it several times. I remember thinking - I've never been taught that? smile. He said: When taking a text we are unsure about -- look in the book to see if there are clues to its understanding. In other words if I don't understand Heb. 6:3 ... look further in the book of Hebrews to see if the author talks about things concerning the text in question. Then look at other Bible books written by the same author of the text under question. Lastly, look to the whole Bible. Also, ladies, you might be interested in something on the web. It is by a woman named Elizabeth Inrig that Colleen mentions often. She is in charge of women's ministries at the Trinity Evangelical Free Church and quite a teacher ... Anyways, she is doing a class for women on how to study a book of the Bible from scratch - the notes are on the web and you can download some of the audio. I haven't gotten very far ... but what I've listened to and read are very good . http://www.trinityonline.org/cgi-bin/MediaList.cgi?section=women&category=Company%20of%20the%20Committed So Rev. 19:10 - who's author is John the apostle - (By the way it is interesting to read Rev. 19:10 in context and the verses around them ... because Rev. 22:8,9 refer back to Rev. 19:10) And the gospel of John is written by the same author of Revelation ... John 5:31-47; NASB: If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. Oops, sorry Vivian, I just realized you were also making the scriptural connections ... Sorry, I'll post anyways, my apologies ... I guess what I am saying and what Elizabeth was saying on the web is Context, Context, Context. Which is what ya'll have been saying . I'm a slow learner . | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2925 Registered: 10-2004 |
Keri, You bring up a very good point. In Adventism we were never taught proper Biblical hermeneutics. Here is an excellent overview of Biblical hermeneutics (principles of interpretation, which actually come from the Bible itself!): http://www.forananswer.org/Top_General/Hermeneutics.htm Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on August 01, 2009) | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 681 Registered: 2-2008 |
Keri~ Dale teaches that way of studying the Bible in one of his books also (it probably was through Proclamation). That was the first time I had ever heard about this method. And as my mom always says, "You have to read it in 'contest'" LOL... she can't pronounce "context" for the life of her! ... it always comes out as "contest"! Jeremy~ I completely agree with you that to have Christ's testimony in us is a reference to the Holy Spirit. He is the One who testifies that we are children of God. vivian p.s. I also wrote out the "long" version of the study I did on John 5. I didn't post that here, too save y'all from the length of it, but it's a "note" on my FB. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10191 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great thread. This method of Bible study--beginning with the text, looking for context in the rest of the chapter, the book, books by the same author, then the same testament, then the whole Bible--is called inductive Bible study. We simply were not taught to do it within Adventism. Because ultimately everything we understood had to line up with our "spirit of prophecy", our "context" was Adventism/EGW instead of the Bible itself. It's horrifying, really--our self-deception was total--or nearly so. Colleen | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2008 |
Love your post 680 Vivian i was taught to study the Word and the whole council of God from the person who led me to the Lord/discipled me. He was a Baptist minister who was asked to leave his church because He received the gift of speaking in tongues. oh that people would not pick and choose from the Word of God. handmaiden | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5300 Registered: 9-2006 |
Handmaiden, That happened to the minister of the largest Baptist church in Bakersfield, accept they had to keep him, the people really loved him and he had already served them for 20 years. The church board was afraid of the congregation I guess, afraid they would be the one rode out on a rail instead. His name is Lavender. River | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 684 Registered: 2-2008 |
How scary is that? ... "our "context" was Adventism/EGW instead of the Bible itself." It still creeps me out that in the 28 beliefs, they say that EGW's "writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction." Isn't that the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives? vivian | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 305 Registered: 3-2009 |
Yep, Vivian, it's really sick. I pointed that out in my exit letter! |
