| Author | Message | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2009 |
My wife is reading Ellen White's book "Child Guidance." I am so frustrated and angry. I can not understand at all how she can be so blind to what this woman represents and so unwilling to investigate EGW(my wife was raised adventist - after 11 years of our marriage she decided to go "back to keeping the Sabbath"). Each passing day she seems to get deeper and deeper into the doctrines represented by Adventism. I know in the end it is up to the Holy Spirit to lead and guide and change hearts, but I was just wondering if anyone had any practical guidance as it relates to this book. Thanks. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10169 Registered: 12-2003  |
Cordurb, how old are your kids? You know, the Bible instructs that the husband and father is the spiritual head of the family. That doesn't mean you wield an iron fist, but it does mean that there are certain stands you need to take re: your children and their understanding of God. I really don't have a clear set of instructions for you, but I do want to encourage you to pray, asking God to show you how to lead your family according to His will. It is important that you allow God to show you how to love your wife for God. I also believe it is important that you and she come to some mutual understanding of how you will discipline and instruct your kids. Moreover, though, you may need to take some responsibility for how they will be taught the Bible. Perhaps others have some advice and first-person experience, but I do know that it will be important for you to clearly understand the nature of Adventism and ask God to show you how to protect your children and teach them the truth while loving your wife and being a kind and strong spiritual leader in your home. It is important that you not defer to your wife's Adventism in terms of teaching your children. Your children need to hear your understanding, and your wife also needs to see you being "the man" and owning God's authority which He has given you to teach your family. Adventist women tend to believe, almost unconsciously, that they are the stronger "spiritual voice" in the family. This paradigm, though, is not the biblical model. Even though your wife may initially resist if you take spiritual leadership, if you are not not domineering but rather loving and authoritative with the authority of the Holy Spirit, she will respect you in spite of herself. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 385 Registered: 3-2009 |
Unfortunately, when your wife talks to her pastor about it, I can hear him saying, "It is necessarily to obey God before man." Meaning that since the SDA have "the truth", your wife should take this as part of the "persecution" that the "true (SDA) Christians will suffer. She will resist your approach to teach you children the Bible truth. Keep in mind that she is in a cult, and one of the characteristics of the cults is that they are the only ones with the truth and that anyone that opposes them is proving that they are being persecuted for Jesus's sake and proof that they are the "real thing". I will pray for you, and hope that others in this forum will pray also since this is a case where it almost doesn't matter what you do, it will be considered as proof of her being in the "truth." If you let her instruct the kids in SDAism, is because you feel deep inside that it is the truth, if you don't it is because you are against the truth, proving the "persecution complex" and strengthening her resolve. Hec | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 832 Registered: 12-2007  |
Hec, AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH! Hey Lannie, if you read this post, I think there may be some of what Hec is saying, playing out in that other situation we were discussing privately, earlier today. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 929 Registered: 7-2007 |
I used to be in that same "head space" where I was certain that Ellen White was a true prophet. I was so certain that she was and I wasn't willing to read anything that said she wasn't - I didn't want to get "confused" by anything. I haven't read Child Guidance myself though. It took someone fasting and praying for me before one little thing made me willing to look into it and see if just maybe Ellen White was a false prophet. That thing was "Michael the archangel." After that, I read how someone found out that Jesus didn't wait until 1844 to enter the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary - Hebrews 6:19,20; Hebrews 9:12,25 and others. When I found that out, I realized for sure that Ellen White was a false prophet. Then I found out that Jesus brought in a whole new covenant when He died - Hebrews 9:16; and that the old one is obsolete - Hebrews 8:13. I found out that the 10 commandments is the old one and that the 10 were given to Israel, but not to their forefathers - Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 5:3 and on... I was definitely under a "veil" and the devil tried to supernaturally keep me there, but God is stronger!!!!! Anyway, that's my story super-condensed. Dianne | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2009 |
Colleen, my girls are 4 and 5. I have been fortunate enough in my business that my wife is able to stay home with the kids. Now it seems like this is a bad thing as she spends most of her time with her "adventist friends" as do my children. I take the girls on one Saturday a week or so and take them to breakfast, the zoo, etc, but the mom has so much control it is hard. I can try and fight it and she may leave, or I can be gentle and at least get to be around my kids all the time - which is what I prefer. I am a very active father and love my girls (and my wife) very much. The maddening thing to me is that while she seems to say she wants the bible to be her guide, this does not seem to apply when it comes to who is the spiritual head of the household. That part of the bible somehow does not apply. I think you are spot on when you say that adventist women believe they are the "spiritual voice." My pastor is teaching on Ephesians. Next week is Ephesians 5. My wife does not go to my non-denominational church with me very often anymore, but I am praying she goes next week. I know I have to be a Godly-husband and need to love her as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, but the more I read about Adventism the angrier I find myself becoming. HEC, you are correct. My wife has uttered the phrase that she needs to obey God before men in th e recent past. The one thing about all this is that it has made me more certain of who we are in Christ and what New Covenant Christianity is all about. I am grateful it has forced me to do study more in all areas of the bible. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7286 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cordurb, maybe in the evening you can read Bible stories to your kids, right out of the Bible. That is what I did with my son as I could not afford the SDA books. I started doing that when my son was young, about 4-5 years of age. Your wife should have no objections over reading right out of the Bible. As an adventist female I was the spiritual head of the family. I resented being it. My husband became SDA just so I would marry him, but he did not like to live the SDA life and did not want to be the spiritual head. Gotta go to work. Diana L | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2008 |
Well, egw says if your spouse is unbelieving you shouldn't push it (paraphrased) I'd think the street should run both ways. Not advocating what she says of course but it seems like common sense. I have four kids. When I married my husband he was not sda, he was baptist. My kids were fourth generation sda. Neither of us were attending church at the time. My kids are the ones that got us going back to church again. We of course went to the sda church and my husband went with us. He never pushed me, I never pushed him. He became sda, then we all left and are now non-denominational. When it was all said and done my husband said, "I was just waiting for ya'll to see the truth for yourselves and I'm glad you finally did". He had only joined the sda so as to not cause trouble with two different belief systems. At first I had the same worries you have, only in reverse. I was afraid he would say things that would shake their faith in the sda church. He said a few little things, not much, and never pushed it. I would then quietly counter it with the "truth". Through it all the kids faith in sda never waivered until they were shown the real truth about egw and the many other falsehoods the sda teach. Now they are happily in the real truth. I guess what I am saying is, use your chances to tell them bible truths, pray about it and let God do the rest . He knows what he is doing. Fighting about it may only get you a divorce or, something worse. People tend to "dig in" when their point of view is questioned. So, let the Holy Spirit do most of the work for you. Because, in reality, He is the only one that can change anything anyway. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 62 Registered: 2-2005 |
Cordurb, My wife read "Child Guidance" years ago. We, at that time revered Ellen. What happened was a miracle. My wife became so discouraged trying to instill Ellen's "council" into our kids lives that she completely gave up and the book has drawn dust ever since. I pray that this is your wife's experience also. Does your wife know that Ellen spent at least five years out traveling and she trusted her kids with other people? Does she know that Ellen wrote threatening letters to her kids while out hawking her books. She told them that God cannot not love disobedient children. You should sit down and read the letters she penned to her kids while she was out on the road. They are enough to raise the hair on your back. Ellen was probably the poorest choice available to write councils and guidance for children. She and James made their living hawking her writings. The church today is still raking in big bucks doing the same thing. I would suggest, if you have not already, that you fortify yourself with what she wrote. You can certainly get a good synopsis on the anti SDA websites. You certainly cannot get a balanced view with any of SDA studies. Suggest that your wife at least study both sides before leaping into the fire. (Message edited by bobalou on July 27, 2009) | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2009 |
Flying Lady, Good advice, funny last night I started reading out of Acts to them. About to get to Chapter 15. You are right that she can't so "no" to just reading the bible. Awkweavers, how was it that you came to look at the non-SDA side of things? I am encouraged by your husband's comment of just saying he was waiting for you to figure it out on your own. Bobalou, I will look for those letters. Thanks. | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2008 |
Cordurb: The way It all started was with one comment my husband made. He said,"One thing that bothers me about the sda is how egw says never feel like you are saved and so people always doubt their salvation." I told him that was not what we really believed and I would prove it. So, I started gathering egw quotes and the more I read the more I saw his comment was true. In turn, I decided that if she said that then I needed to prove she had the authority from God to say it (in other words prove she was a prophet). Needless to say that was not possible. I was pretty much in shock for several months as I learned more and more about all the lies and deception. Through the whole thing my husband never said a word to me trying to convince me either way. In the end, myself, my four kids, my mom, my niece, my sister and my brother inlaw have all left the sda church, and of course my husband had his name removed too. Not once was our marriage threatened by the different bible views we had. This could only be from the Holy Spirit because with mine, as well as my husbands stubborness  , it could have been a disaster. | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2009 |
that is the challenge for me. I believe strongly, and I certainly have made mistakes in how I express myself, but we do love each other. Your story is an encouragement. Trust God is the ultimate answer. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2915 Registered: 10-2004  |
I found the thread where someone posted the letters Ellen White wrote to her children. It's called "EGW's letters to her children" in "Archived Discussions 7"--but the link doesn't work: http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/8713/7116.html?1209261091 And it looks like a lot of other threads in "Archived Discussions 7" have a "404 Not Found" error, also. Hopefully Richard can fix this! Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10175 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, Jeremy--I'll let him know. Pray to know how to love your wife for God, and pray that He will show you how to read and teach the Bible to your children in her presence. Pray that God will reveal the deception to her, and that when you read to and teach your kids, that the Holy Spirit Himself will teach them and you and your wife through His own word. Pray that you will be fully surrendered to Him and that only His Spirit will speak and cause your wife and your children to hear what He knows they need to hear, that He Himself will direct the discussions and take them where He knows they need to go. He is faithful. Colleen | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thanks Colleen. You are being led by the Holy Spirit as your words are confirmation of what I feel like God has been telling me to do. It is hard because being a guy, I want to fix it all myself and the solution seems so easy, but God wants to be glorfied in my life. It is not about me fixing it. If there is any way to get those letters Jeremy talked about, I would love to be able to access them. I can't seem to find them on the web. Thanks, Corey | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2008 |
Father i just lift up this family before Your throne of grace. i pray that You would put a hedge of protection around this little family that the enemy cannot cross. i pray that you would give Cordurb Your agape love for his wife... a love that passes through all the barriers, snares, plans and divisive tactics of the enemy. i pray that You would break the hold and pull of the spirit of adventism on this precious wife and mother who sincerely desires to do your will. Help her Lord to see the truth of Your ways..draw her into Your word and Your will for her and her children. Let the father cling to your promises that the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband and that the children of a believing parent are sanctified and holy. Give this father wisdom, understanding, patience beyond his natural abilities. Direct his path fill his mouth with your words to speak at the right moment and guard his lips that he would not speak when it is not of You. Lord have mercy on this situation and do a quick work in this family. in Jesus name i pray i will keep you and your family in my prayers love handmaiden | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2009 |
your prayer is a blessing. thank you. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2009 |
Praying for your family, too, Cordurb. The Holy Spirit is real & powerful & will speak through His inspired words. It might be a great idea to buy the kids some really good Christian DVDs! | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 641 Registered: 6-2005  |
Corey, Welsome! Here is one of two quotes that propelled me off the fence and out the door of Adventism. I was physically sick after reading this quote. I KNEW that these statements COULD NOT be true about what God could and could not do for/with children. My eyes were opened to the dark and false spirit behind these quotes. I was convinced only a false prophet could make such claims about God. Here is some things that Ellen White had to say about children. "Parents stand in the place of God to their children, and they will have to render an account, whether they have been faithful to the little few committed to their care. Parents, some of you are rearing children to be cut down by the destroying angel, unless you speedily change your course, and be faithful to them. GOD CANNOT COVER INIQUITY, EVEN IN CHILDREN. HE CANNOT LOVE UNRULY CHILDREN WHO MANIFEST PASSION, AND HE CANNOT SAVE THEM IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE. Will you suffer your children to be lost through your neglect? Unfaithful parents, their blood will be upon you, and is not your salvation doubtful with the blood of your children upon you?--children who might have been saved had you filled your place, and done your duty as faithful parents should. {RH, March 28, 1893 par. 4} (EMPASIS MINE) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2918 Registered: 10-2004 |
Corey, Here is a whole chapter from An Appeal to the Youth by Ellen G. White of the letters she wrote to her children: http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section00000.htm/book00155.htm/chapter00156.htm One of the worst ones is the one on pages 62-63. Here's a short excerpt:
Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on July 30, 2009) | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2009 |
Jeremy, java girl, Thank you both. These words do sicken me. Hard to fathom people that call themselves Christian can be ok with these writings if they truly read the bible. I will do the research. Again I thank you. |
