| Author | Message | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 596 Registered: 2-2008  |
My pastor has been preaching on Galatians these past few months. Last week he preached about 8 indicators of an abusive church. I wanted to share these with everyone: 1. Strong control-oriented leadership (authoritarian). Promotes being "self" controlled instead of being controlled by the Spirit. 2. The use of fear, guilt and intimidation by the leadership to manipulate members and keep them in line. 3. Followers led to think that there is no other church quite like their church, and that God has singled them out for a special purpose. 4. Other churches are put down as being less "holy" or less "religious." 5. Rules and legalism abound. 6. Members not following rules established by the leadership are often labeled. 7. Oftentimes a spouse is encouraged to show more loyalty to the church or pastor. 8. For members choosing to leave a spiritually abusive church... attending another church can be difficult and be wrought with fear. To bring his point home about what defines an abusive church, Pastor Keith had us think about 2 different terms: GANG and FAMILY. He asked us to give examples of what defines a "gang." The responses from my congregation were REALLY interesting. I'd like to hear your definition of a "gang." How does the "gang" work? How is the "gang" different than "family"? ~vivian | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7131 Registered: 3-2004  |
The way I understand GANG is that it is a group that are out to protect their turf. If anyone wants to enter the gang they have to go through certain initiation rites. Once a gang member, the person has to do what the leader of the gang says with fear of punishment if they do not. I am having a difficult time with how they differ as some families are like a gang. As was my blood family. We were to do as our parents, especially, our Mom said. She would shun us if we did not. If she did not like some one, all of us were told not to like that person. Thank God I have learned that the family of God is not like that. God's family loves each member, corrects with love and prays for each other. That is my short answer. Diana L | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5129 Registered: 9-2006  |
Does one thru eight describe anyone you know Viv? | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 603 Registered: 2-2008 |
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| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 604 Registered: 2-2008 |
Diana~ I think some families act like gangs too. I liked that you said that you could only like the people your mom liked... hmmmm. sound familiar? I grew up hearing that other people were "nominal" Christians. My mom would tell me, "You shouldn't become good friends with those who are not SDA. They don't realize that they believe in things that are from the devil and they might convince you also." I am so glad also that God's family isn't like this. I'm also thankful that I have God's word and the Spirit to guide me and I don't have to worry that I might be "entangled". ~vivian | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10082 Registered: 12-2003  |
Interesting. And yes, I believe that "cult families" often act like gangs, not because they're inherently mean people but because they actually believe a lie which gives them a completely false foundation instead of reality. They are unwittingly shaped by and enslaved to darkness and sin. The thing about false gospels (as opposed to outright paganism, etc) that is so dangerous is that it very closely mimics truth. Adventism is not externally a wildly divergent religion from Christianity (although at its core it actually is wildly divergent). It's what I call "an eighth of a turn off". It looks, to a casual observer, like the real thing. But if you follow it to its logical conclusion—like if a sailor gets his bearings a couple of degrees off—you end up someplace you never intended to go. People caught in deception panic that those in their lives will not only ruin themselves if they deviate from their paradigm, but they also panic that their own lives will radically change and spin out of control if their support structure deviates from their norm. I remember as an Adventist actually feeling Adventism had a right to demand "Sabbath observance" from non-Adventists if those "nons" worked for "the church". After all, it was TRUE. If push came to shove, we didn't have to honor those people's Sunday worship, and we did have a right to insist they honor Sabbath, willingly or unwillingly. It was our job to defend the truth even at the expense of "unbelievers". That's gang mentality. Colleen | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 608 Registered: 2-2008 |
In reading about what you wrote Colleen about how dangerous false gospels are because they "very closely mimic truth", that is also true of gangs. Gangs, to many people are their family. On the outside it seems to act like a family (looks like the true gospel), but I think they find out pretty soon that within a gang, they are there to serve the leader. That's why there are so many people attracted to a gang... some may have never experienced or known what a true family is. Being part of a gang, unless you're at the top, you are a slave to the leader. You don't follow one command and the leader now has a reason to take you out. If someone can't bring in the money they are suppose to bring in, i.e. tithe, then they can't function within the gang. Families works differently. It is based on love, not on laws. Families exist because by blood (some by adoption ), a group is connected by "who" they are, not just be "what" they do. Jesus provides that connection for us... by Him, we are family. The family exists to serve each other. The gang exists to serve the leader. In Adventism, I felt a connection to others because of "what" I did... I kept the Sabbath like they did. Now I'm experiencing what it's like to be connected to other people because of "who" I am, a child of God. ~vivian | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 456 Registered: 7-2004 |
Oh, Vivian, I think that is very profound, and I had never thought of this analogy!! I love it! As an adventist I always heard that the devil had a counterfeit for every truth of God. Well......there you go! The gang is a counterfeit of the family. | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 55 Registered: 7-2008 |
Colleen i so agree with you about about false gospels being so dangerous because they are such a close counterfeit to the TRUTH. The worst lie is one that is 99% true because it is so BELIEVABLE!!!!!!! Counterfeits have many controls/demands that make their followers have an outward appearance of "goodness".., but they are utterly useless in changing the sinful heart of man or bringing life to a dead spirit. God is the author and finisher of our faith Without faith it is impossible to please Him...faith in the finished work of our Lord Jesus on the Cross. It does not matter how sincere our faith is IF the object of our faith is not genuine. satan is the author of dead religion based on "good" works. he does not care what you believe or put your faith in as long as it is not the TRUTH. he appears as an angel of light to deceive many "good," sincere, outwardly moral people, into thinking by their own self righteous works that they can be pleasing to God Being grounded in the scriptures alone is the only safe guard ...the only plumbline by which we can accurately detect a counterfeit gospel. When you are so familiar with the genuine, you will recognize the counterfeit immediately no matter how cleverly disguised it is or how appealing it is to "itching ears". i watched a documentary on the survival of Shakelton's Polar Expedition crew after they had to abandon their ship,the Endurance, to the ice. Part of the crew sailed over 800 miles in a very small boat. Their goal was a tiny spot of an island in the vast arctic sea. The narrartor explained that being off in their navagation by even one degree would put them off course by 60 miles and they would have no hope of finding their destination. They could have sailed by what felt right or their good intentions or counted on their sheer hard work to get them to their destination.....but their very lives depended on accurate headings. No amount of good work would have gotten them safely to the island if they had not had a sexton to guide them. So little separated them from death but they survived because because they relied on the source of truth. just thoughts handmaiden | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 611 Registered: 2-2008 |
loved your story handmaiden. I loved what you wrote about having "faith in the finished work of our Lord Jesus on the cross." One of the things that Derek Prince wrote in his book, Atonement (p.32) is that, "We can get involved in many forms of teaching, ministry and Christian activity that may be good in their own way. But if they are separated from the sacrifice of the cross, ultimately they lose their effectiveness." In my experience as an Adventist, Christ's sacrifice has been a "side" dish... not the focal point. This may not be true of all Adventists. In my family, the fact that Jesus "rested" on the Sabbath was more important than the fact that He resurrected. My mom probably would disagree that I've said that. But looking back, we talked more about that "rest" day than we ever talked about the fact the Jesus resurrected.  ~vivian | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7159 Registered: 3-2004 |
As an SDA and even after my name was taken off the SDA books, when I went to church I heard more about the Sabbath then about Jesus. And the resurrection??? Maybe at Easter time something was said. How very sad!!! I am so thankful we are not there any longer. Christ is honored and glorified first and foremost in my life now. WOW!!! He is awesome!!! Diana L | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 824 Registered: 12-2007  |
I agree Viv. Traditional SDA doctrine tends to view Jesus life as more symbolic, then necessary for our salvation. The emphasis is on his example of living a perfect life, and the atonement is still not complete, in their view. (The "end" of which began in 1884 and hasn't been wrapped up yet. Unless we just don't happen to know that the official close of probation happened silently last week, and isn't yet apparent. ) As an SDA, I thought the term "close of probation" was a Christian term, and had no clue that it was exclusive to Adventism/not biblical, btw. Very true about the cult/gang similarities. | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2008 |
Thanks Vivian Maybe you could watch the documentary sometime too. It is called Endurance ...the greates survival story of all time..... but that is not really true ... The greatest survival story of all time is the story of a whole world shipwrecked in the Lost Sea, condemned and without hope,.. and of an amazing rescue plan ....many were still lost...SOLEY due to their vain trust in noninflatable life preservers; but miracle of miracles, allll those who let go of the faulty life preservers and grabbed hold of the nail scarred hands of the hero, Jesus, were saved!!! He reached out to allll the victims of the catastophy of sin, but only those, who trusted in His strength and power to overcome every obstacle...even death itself were pulled from the Lost Sea and placed in the Ship of Salvation. SOS - SAVE OUR SOULS. There's a story line for you River THEEEEEE greatest event of all time and eternity is the RESURRECTION from the dead of our Lord Jesus Christ. If He had been born and walked this earth for 6000+ years and never died a substutionary death on our behalf... we would all still be lost in our sins!!!!!!! The atoning death and RESURRECTION of our Lord Jesus is the greatest miracle, the greatest victory, the greatest rescue of allll time and eternity. Alleluia!!!!! CELEBRATE PRAISE THE LORD !!!!! not only do we have a sabbath rest in Jesus everyday But for us every day is RESURRECTION SONDAY !!!! rejoicing in the God of my salvation handmaiden | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7163 Registered: 3-2004 |
Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away God decided to create a planet where people could live...... River, you continue it as you are the story teller. Diana L | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5149 Registered: 9-2006 |
Long long ago God created a planet where people could live. The people sinned against him, but he loved them still. So he sent his Son to die in their place And so they could behold, his wonderful face So on the long voyage of sins dark Seas His Son heard their cries and he heard their pleas So they took him to the cross and nailed him there But his friends took him down and buried him with care The next morning they arose, before dawns early light They went to his tomb, the Angel gave them a fright The angel said do not fear, for he is not here He's gone on ahead to wait for you there And lo and behold, when the time was just right The Son met them and they knew it was right Two thousand years, now have passed And Gods son has saved us Thank God, Thank God, we are free at last So rejoice dear children, in your heart and mine For we shall be with him, in that city so sublime we'll talk it over, how we sailed the dark Seas And how Gods Son saved us and he will be pleased We'll raise our arms in praise, in shouting and song When we join him in heaven, among the great throng Well, something like that. River | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 614 Registered: 2-2008 |
It's an amazing thing our Lord, our King, our Creator did for us. Thanks for the stories guys! ~vivian | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2009 |
Handmaiden--We have the same documentary on Shackleton-- (haven't had time to watch it yet) It was so cool to hear about it from someone on the forum. I will be thinking about your posts when we finally get to see it. Just taking a few monutes to check out the forum while eating dinner--our company will be here bright & early in the a.m., so have been very busy getting the house ready, cooking, etc. Reading through the forum is a wonderful encouragement & as refreshing as a cool drink of water! | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1718 Registered: 5-2007  |
The rest of the story: When the Shackleton expedition finally reached safety on Grytviken, South Georgia Island, World War One had just started. Ernest Shackleton and most of his crew immediately volunteered for military service. As soon as the war was over he led another expedition but died before they could reach the Antarctic. Of course, leading his crew home on the previous expedition was truly his finest moment in history. At his wife's insistence, he was buried on South Georgia Island, the closest land to where his heart lay. His story is my all time favorite adventure. I have several books on his life and the A & E four volume (VHS) series about him. He was simply the finest leader of modern history, loved by all who served under him. Fearless Phil | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2008 |
One of the things i remember that really struck me is that when they landed on South Georgia Island, they landed on the wrong side of the island. It was deemed necessary to cross the island on foot rather than sailing around it. It was an impossible feat even by modern standards of mountain climbing and yet these weak, half starved men, with atrophied muscles were able to climb mountain after treacherous mountain with a solitary hand made axe as their only equipment. Only three men of the crew made this last hazardous journey and each of them said they believed that a 4th man was there helping them along the way. Nowisee, i am so happy, you have joined us. i am sure you will be amazed watching this true story. Miraculously not one member of the crew was lost!!! Phil i see we have one more thing in common with the interest in this story. i read the book several years ago and so it was great to see the documentary and the actual surviving photos. love handmaiden | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10098 Registered: 12-2003 |
Nowisee, I'm praying for you and your family. Love, Colleen |
