| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 858 Registered: 7-2007 |
I can wish that on any day of the week now! Colossians 2:16,17 was one place in the Bible that I read through quickly or skipped over, when I was an Adventist (when I was reading the New Testament). I couldn't understand that passage. (And that wasn't the only passage I couldn't understand either!) (I just wanted to write another post about the Sabbath in case there are some Adventists reading this. I know this subject has been covered, but for Adventists who haven't read the previous posts, I wanted to write about this again.) Have you noticed how the passage lists the various Sabbaths? 1. The festivals (feasts) - the yearly/seasonal Sabbaths. 2. The New Moons - the monthly Sabbaths 3. The Sabbaths - the weekly Sabbaths. Adventists wouldn't want to admit to it, but they interpret the passage to say: "festivals, New Moons and festivals," because they don't want to admit that the third category "Sabbaths" obviously refers to the weekly ones. Throughout the Old Testament, the Sabbaths are grouped that way too. (Such as 1st Chronicles 23:31; 2nd Chronicles 2:4 and Ezekiel 45:17) The Galatians were also observing Days which made Paul afraid for them. Galatians 4:10,11 says: "You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." (Notice the groupings of the days again.) The Sabbath was given only to Israel as a sign of the covenant between them and God. (Exodus 31:13; Ezekiel 20:12) That covenant is now obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) and a new covenant has been brought in (Hebrews 9:15,16). Handmaiden and I were talking to an Adventist and she was trying to say that the Sabbath was started at creation. We pointed out that only the SEVENTH day was memorialized - not the 14th or the 28th, etc. It doesn't even say "Sabbath." Also the law was given only to Israel - not to Gentiles. (Romans 2:13) I urge all of you reading this who are Adventists. Please prayerfully read the New Testament (it's the new covenant written out), WITHOUT Ellen White. | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2008 |
Colossians 2:16,17
A good pair of verses... I've heard many times the argument that the "Sabbath day" in the verse 16 doesn't refer to the weekly Sabbaths. But let me tell you something I've come across. In Spanish, in the Reina-Valera version of the Bible (which is, more or less, the equivalent to the KJV in English) every time they talk about the Sabbath it says "dia de reposo"... Translated into english it means "resting day". Every time that it mentions that, there's a little asterisk symbol (*) sending you to the bottom of the page, where it says something like "Here it is equal to sabbath". Well, one day, after I heard some adventist people saying that the Sabbath in that verse doesn't refer to the weekly sabbath, I was very curious and went to check in my Reina-Valera Bible... Well, well, well... What do you find there? That reference saying that it is "equal to the sabbath", exactly the same that appears in Exodus every time that it talks about the seventh day, and in so many other places in the Bible. Let me tell you that it was pretty surprising to me at the time. | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2008 |
. We were pointing out that ONLY the ACTUAL ORIGINAL 7th day was blessed......NOT each successive "7th" day after that... which would actually be the 14th..21st..28th..35th etc etc etc (who knows what day we are on counting from day 1) in reality there has and only will be ONE 7th day and God blessed IT ..BECAUSE He had finished His work of creation. "And on the seventh day God ENDED HIS WORK which He had done and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. THEN God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it BECAUSE in it HE RESTED from all HIS WORK.... God did not get up and create some more on the 8th day....He is still resting from that finished work.....as the Bible says there was evening and morning for every day but NOT on the 7th day..it is an eternal day of rest. The one and only original 7th day was in fact Adam and Eve's FIRST full day as they were created sometime on the 6th day. So it was their FIRST day that God rested. Adam and Eve were created to be in the DAY OF REST from the begining. WORK like DEATH came AFTER THE FALL and is the result of sin. Cursed is the ground for your sake; in TOIL you shall eat of it all the days of your life....in the SWEAT of your face you shall eat bread.... The Bible says the Lord planted the garden and a river watered the garden...there were no weeds until after the fall. Now i love to work in my yard ...but it is work. There is occasional planting and constant watering and oh my goodness, i can not keep up with the weeds that constantly are sprouting up. Believe me it is WORK to keep a garden NOW. But it was NOT work for Adam and Eve...i think it was a joy and a pleasure for them to "tend and keep the garden" ...i am not sure what that means but i know there was no planting or watering or weeding.... when i am done with those i sit and enjoy my beautiful garden. No, in the begining there was no work and no death. Man was created to live forever in restful fellowhip with his Creator....and who knows how long that lasted until sin entered the world. After the fall man was driven out of the garden and the way to the TREE OF LIFE was guarded to keep them away from it........WHY ??? Because God in His love and mercy did not want them to eat of the TREE OF LIFE and live forever in their fallen state. It is only because man is mortal that he can be redeemed ....as the wages of sin is DEATH. WHY can't the angels be redeemed????? Because they are immortal spirits and cannot DIE. This is why God took on humanity so that He could be our substitut and die in our place...pay our sin debt and restore us to the day of eternal rest and fellowship with God. Yes, the 7th day is a day of eternal rest ..remember God is stillllllll resting from His finished work of creation. There is another day that corresponds to this day of rest at the end of the finished work of creation.....it is the day of REDEEMPTION when Jesus died on the cross and paid the full price for all the sin of humanity and said IT IS FINISHED. Just as the Father has never risen up to create again; so the Son has never gone back to the cross to redeem us again. The work of redeemption is DONE finished. Jesus is resting from that finished work. He invites us to enter that rest TODAY ...to rest in His finished work on the cross..it is a perpetural eternal rest...an eternal sabbath. Jesus is our Sabbath ...Jesus is our Rest. He says "Come all you who labor and are heavy burdened and I will give you rest." What kind of rest does Jesus offer us???? The rest from trying to earn our salvation..the work of salvation is done and is offered to us as a free gift. TODAY even NOW HE is calling to YOU....inviting you to come and enter HIS rest... the rest, the fellowship, you were created to know from the begining. he that hath an ear let him hear..... TODAY is the day of salvation ... no man is promised tomorrow ...let alone the next minute of life.... . | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 861 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes, only the seventh day was blessed, not any of it's anniversaries! ("Memorialized" was the wrong word to use.) The Sabbath commandment was not given until Exodus - at the giving of the manna - to Israel. That was LONG after the weekly cycle had been established. It was given as a sign, only to Israel in the covenant between God and Israel. The fourth commandment said "remember" because the command had been given weeks before, at the giving of the manna. (See Exodus 16) God tells us to enter His rest (Hebrews 3,4). It says that Israel didn't enter His rest, but they were certainly keeping the Sabbath! Sabbath MEANS rest, and we are cease from our own efforts and enter God's rest. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 574 Registered: 2-2008  |
I had sort of a "light bulb" moment a few weeks ago. I realized that all these years I had equated "worshipping" on the Sabbath as the same as "resting" on the Sabbath. To me, I believed that Sabbath = Worship which was the same as Sabbath = Rest. I was thinking about the man who was condemned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. He wasn't condemned because he wasn't worshipping God on that day. He was condemned because he was "working"!!! The same with the disciples when they were supposedly harvesting on the Sabbath. The accusation was not that they weren't worshipping, they were being accused of "working". Jesus was also accused of "working" on the Sabbath. The Jews didn't accuse Him of not worshipping God on the Sabbath. This has been HUGE to me. When I look at the OT and how the Israelites lived, they basically worshipped everyday. Everyday they were offering sacrifices. No one was condemned for worshipping on the wrong day. So going back to the Creation account, it is clearly written that God "rested" on the 7th day. When the Israelites were delivered from the slavery of working everyday, He PROVIDED them a day to rest. He further provided for them to have rest days monthly and yearly. God wanted them to enjoy the rest the He provided to them. So when God PROVIDED His Son as a sacrifice whom took away our sins, He has given us True Rest from our works. We no longer have to work for our salvation. The rest that God provided with the Sabbaths were a shadow of the reality of the True Rest we have in Christ. Now... having said that... I strongly believe that if a person believes in the Investigative Judgment they cannot experience the rest that God provided for us in His Son. If a person doesn't know if Jesus has blotted out their sins yet, they don't know if they are justified, or if their sins have been atoned for, they don't know if they have salvation!!! If you don't know where you stand in regards to salvation, you have no rest. It won't matter how many Sabbaths you keep or how well you keep them... you cannot experience the reality of the shadow which is the rest we have in Christ. You have NO REST!! Also, I believe that a person who is keeping the law because they feel that "keeps" their salvation is as guilty as the man who was picking up sticks on the Sabbath. They are "working" when they should be "resting" in Christ's finished work. ~vivian | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1004 Registered: 11-2007  |
So many good points Vivian!!! So ironic to take the thing that symbolized Christ's finished work and make our own work out of it. Jews did the same thing with circumcision. Heb 6:19,20 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the veil, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. (Was Hebrews written after 1844?) Just reading Hebrews... again. I love that book. And the words to the hymn we sang today. "When darkness veils His lovely face, I rest on His unchanging grace; In every high and stormy gale, my anchor holds within the veil." (My Hope is Built vs.2) Did I ever sing that song as an sda? Was He my anchor or my judge without a final verdict in my case? Okay, I know you want the words to the rest of the song.. My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus' blood and righteousness I dare not trust the sweetest frame But wholly lean on Jesus'name. His oath, His covenant His blood Support me in the whelming flood When all around my soul gives way He then is all my hope and stay When He shall come with trumpet sound, O may I then in Him be found; Dressed in His righteousness alone, Faultless to stand before the throne. On Christ the solid Rock I stand; All other ground is sinking sand All other ground is sinking sand. (Parable of the sand - "He who hears MY words and does not do them.. (not Moses)) | ||
| Intruth Registered user Username: Intruth Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2009 |
Amen Vivian! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1029 Registered: 7-2004  |
Great points, Vivian! | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2006 |
Mega dittos, Vivian! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10030 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great post, Vivian! And you too, Sondra! Colleen | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1006 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hi Intruth!! Welcome! I missed your 1st post somewhere! | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 543 Registered: 11-2007 |
If the sabbath day was a commandment for everyone, starting at creation, why do we not have any record of it before the Isrealites were in the desert? Why was Abraham not commanded to keep it? Why were Adam and Eve not commanded to keep it..especially after they sinned? Why were the Egyptians, during the Isrealite captivity, not commanded to keep it? Later, why were the Philistines, the Ammorites, the Hittites and so on, not commanded to keep it? In Exodus 20, the Isrealite were forbidden to let servants or "strangers within thy gates" work on the sabbath day. It was never forbidden for them to work on the seventh day...unless they were in the house of an Isrealite. Same thing happened later...I can't remember the exact passege right now, but the gates to the city (Jerusalem?) were closed on the seventh day so the non-Isrealites would not be able to carry burdens within the gates of the city. The question was never whether they (non Isrealites) were supposed to observe the sabbath day....just that they were to keep it IF they were in the city or in a house of an Isrealite. This command was either given to every human being from creation or just to Isrealites for the specified period of time before the death and resurrection of Jesus. Based of the Biblical evidence, I would say that it was specifically for the Isrealite nation in the times past. Surfy | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1014 Registered: 11-2007 |
Job listed every possible sin he could think of.. justifying himself before God - that he didn't deserve the suffering he was given. Sabbath is never mentioned at all in any form... hmm. I agree Surfy.. NO evidence it was ever given to anyone else, and plenty of NT evidence that after the cross, it really didn't matter either way. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2007 |
I just wanted to share this : "I Believe That death is very real and devastating. But that there is life after death. That we cannot achieve this on our own, but need help from someone who can save us, and wants to save us. I believe the historical Jesus fits this description. I Believe: Jesus is perfect and we are not. Nor, because of Jesus' love and sacrifice do we need to be. A relationship with Jesus, that is, giving ourselves over to him, is all that is “required” of us to be saved from death because of this sacrifice. Therefore I believe: Our salvation has nothing to do with rules, culture or even The Law. The Law is only a marker revealing our need of Jesus. We therefore live by faith not by works. Living in faith means we accept Jesus as our Savior - simply allowing Jesus to do the hard stuff for us. Living by works has us trying constantly work things out to save ourselves. This has a certain attraction for us humans - but can lead to a life of fear. Alas, fear and faith cannot coexist. We can alternate between fear and faith, but we cannot do both simultaneously. I believe: That there is also a devil. And that the devil does not love or hate me. The devil could not care less about me. The devil hates God. And God loves me. So, seeing as the devil has not been able to directly hurt God, he is currently going after the ones God loves. I Believe the Devil has Gods Attention. I believe: That we do not know it all - that we only know a small part of what is going on. My experience tells me this lack of knowledge is to save my life. Due to huge gaps in our true information, it can sometimes seem that 2 opposite things are portrayed as true. This is called a paradox. It is only by embracing these paradoxes that we begin to see who God truly is. This is becoming my life's work and passion. Click back to www.slopastor.com here" This is on the website of the Pastor of the SDA church in San Luis Obispo Ca. He also pastors the smal church in Morro Bay that I used to attend. This is the Pastor that recently gave a sermon on Romans 14 and admitted it "scared him to death" to give that sermon that he had been wanting to give for 10-13 years. I believe there is great hope for this Pastor and hopefully for a lot of those who attend his church. SLO is very much a College town and a large part of the congregation are college students. There is much opportunity for him to get across to many young people who hopefully would take that message home to their families scattered all over. Please pray for him that he will have the courage of his convictions and will stand for truth, no matter what the personal cost may be. Francie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10039 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'm praying now, Francie, for God to convict him. I did go to his site--interestingly, he features a "What do Adventists believe?" section and states he teaches Adventists beliefs periodically in an easy-to-listen to format. For sure, it seems he has begun to grasp the significance of the gospel. I pray God will convict him that the gospel and Adventism are, where the rubber meets the road, mutually exclusive. Colleen | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 313 Registered: 10-2008  |
Viv, I remember how the one thing I liked about winter was that sunset early so it was easier to keep the Sabbath because I often would just come home and sleep. Those summers when the sun did not set until 9:00---boy it was a lot of work. Sondra I love that hymn. When I was SDA I did not like hymns but now I love to sing them or even just read the words. One of the big differences for me as a former is now those hymns make sense!! Enoch | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1021 Registered: 11-2007 |
Wow Francie - he is really starting to get it. I pray the truth he is grasping will eclipse the falsehood out of his life. The brighter the light gets, the smaller the darkness gets! I love what he says about the paradoxes. I have found that to be so true!! I love hymns now too Enoch! I've started a collection from itunes! I like the more modern/acoustic arrangements, but LOVE the words. Love some new ones too, but harder to find the deep ones in all the fluff. I have a hard time with so much praise music that is all about what I'm going to do for God.. Yes, we give Him our devotion, but our pledges and promises often get forgotten and set aside. I get convicted by some of those words - that I can't honestly sing them. But there is never any disparity when singing about what He has done for us. He always keeps His promises. Sondra | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7080 Registered: 3-2004  |
Francie, I just went to his blog/website. I will put him on my prayer list and put his name in the slot in the wall of my church. Diana L | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 319 Registered: 10-2008 |
Sondra, I could probably talk about this all day but I agree with you. Now there is plenty of praise music I like, however, if I can't read just the lyrics and match it up to a Bible verse then something doesn't sit right with my spirit. Life after Jesus has a funny way of changing things in one's life. When I was an SDA I would try to get a hold of "christian music" that was contemporary and entertaining and I would only listen to it on Sabbath to help the Sabbath hours go by more quickly. Now if I'm entertained it's a great side effect but the gospel is what it's all about | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1473 Registered: 6-2006  |
Surfy, I wish I could give you a "rep" for that post...  Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7081 Registered: 3-2004 |
One of my many questions is, if the sabbath was given to Adam and Eve and they gave it to their children, why do we not see it written of some where in archeological findings???? If it was passed from generation to generation surely there would be something in archeology somewhere????? Diana L | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 579 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hey Enoch~ Out here the sun doesn't go down till 10pm sometimes. No wonder Ellen observed sabbaths from 6 to 6pm at the beginning. It probably really irked her when that pastor showed her that the sabbath was sundown to sundown! Christian music used to be just entertainment for me also... now I pay attention to the words. They mean so much more to me now than they used to. I was looking at one of my son's old pathfinder shirt and it said "Following the Spirit into all truth" I don't even know where to start with that! Sondra~ that's interesting about Job. ~vivian p.s. Diana... great question... If the Jews haven't forgotten about the sabbath in 3,000 years, how did they forget the sabbath from Abraham to the giving of the law (430yrs.). |
