| Author | Message | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 293 Registered: 3-2009 |
So, when we are talking about church, we are not talking about any institution or organization. We are not talking about the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants and all its branches, we are talking about the individuals who can be found in the Catholic church, the Eastern Orthodox,the protestants (Baptist, Pentecostals, SDAs, etc). In other words ALL believers no matter what label they go by. In this case, any believer, regardless of label could be a prophet in the NT sense: giving encouragement and building "the church". But no more new beliefs or expansion or new insights. Did I understand it right? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4997 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well, give that man a kewpy doll! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2809 Registered: 10-2004  |
Luther wasn't bringing in new doctrines, he was merely pointing out that the Church had gone away from some of what it used to teach in the early centuries. They were the ones that had brought in new doctrines regarding salvation, etc., and Luther was only going back to the old Gospel that Jesus and His apostles, the early church fathers, St. Augustine, etc., had taught. Even the Church councils had condemned pelagianism and semi-pelagianism, but eventually the Roman Catholic Church taught a form of semi-pelagianism. This is what Luther condemned. Jeremy | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 626 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hec, I'm guessing that is right. . . I believe scripture didn't have Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants back then  ... they just had a confession of Jesus as Lord and Savior. They had the writings of the Old Testament ... Hec, lets see who else chimes in on your question ... cause I might have missed something I don't believe there are any new beliefs or expansion or new insights ... but there were counsels to clarify teachings that were trying to creep into the church (meaning body of believers and by that time people that had organized themselves into institutions who claimed to be believers). Also the counsels tried to clarify scripture in succinct statements to circumvent heresy from creeping in. At least that is my "take" on it. I guess whenever I think "church" - at least as used in scripture, I think people who are His. And, ofcourse, it is always good to check the context in which the word "church" is used. Hec, I'm not real versed on all the counsels, to be honest. I just figure I go straight to the source ... scripture ... at least in this part of my journey that is what I do. Keri | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 518 Registered: 7-2008  |
Here is a thought to chew on..... If we dont follow the light That God has already given us in His Word, why would he send a prophet to give us more/new light? If I give you a glass of water and return an hour later to see you have not consumed the water, why would I give you another glass of water??? Just a thought. We animals have thoughts from time to time...LOL LOL LOL ...Animal, the thinker of thoughts | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 840 Registered: 7-2007 |
The "church" is made up of all believers who accept Jesus' finished work. In churches such as the Roman Catholic and Seventh-day Adventist, the people are taught that works are also necessary in the lives of the believers in order to be saved. Remember what Paul said to the Galatians who were trying to add works in order to be saved? "You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, LEST I HAVE LABORED FOR YOU IN VAIN." Galatians 4:10,11 (emphasis mine) If the apostle Paul was afraid that the Galatians would lose their salvation if they went back to doing works to be saved, what about the Catholic church that requires certain things in order to be saved? What about the Adventist church? In the first century the church was persecuted. People aren't going to want to be a Christian unless they really are sincere under such circumstances. When the Roman emperor REQUIRED EVERYONE to be a "Christian," then people brought their idols into the church and it ceased to be Christian. The real church were the few who kept on believing the Bible only, though those people were persecuted by the "church." The devil's always had counterfeits. The Roman Catholic church, then Islam where Mohamed tried to get everyone to follow him. Finally there was the reformation and then the great missionary movement. There was great revival happening in places like England and the United States when the devil started up a whole bunch of cults such as the SDA church and the LDS church. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 841 Registered: 7-2007 |
Animal, thank-you for doing the research. I didn't mean to forget you! What Ellen White wrote does sound blasphemous, doesn't it? The Bible makes salvation so clear, if only people would read it without Ellen White! Have you ever noticed, that none of the false religions can give an assurance of salvation?? | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 842 Registered: 7-2007 |
Oops, I was just re-reading my post where I was talking about the devil's counterfeits. The Catholic church and Islam are counterfeits, I meant to say. And then after the Reformation and the Great Missionary movement (which were not counterfeits) and then when large numbers of people turned to the Lord in the Great Revival, the devil must have gotten really alarmed because his kingdom was sliding sideways and he started all those cults up!!!! I pray that the whole world has another great revival!!! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 295 Registered: 3-2009 |
Jeremy says:
Isn't that what the SDA and all the others say? They are just bringing the church back to its origins because if has gone away from what it used to teach in the early centuries. Animal says:
Why didn't God stop with the first prophet? Did he not send more and more prophets precisely because they did not hear the previous ones? Asurprise says:
Was it possible for the Galatians to lose their salvation after having being saved? River says:
Is that man me? and what in the world is a kewpy doll? Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2811 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hec wrote:
Well, that doesn't make their claims true. Adventism was founded on Arianisn (which was condemned by the early Church) and the 1844 IJ, etc. which of course was never taught by the Church. Same with all the other SDA teachings. Most of their teachings are just recycled heresies which were already condemned as heresies in the early centuries. Jeremy | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 846 Registered: 7-2007 |
I don't know if it's possible for one to lose one's salvation after being saved, but Paul was certainly afraid for them, lest he had labored for them in vain. Galatians 4:10.11. Also he said that if they became circumcised, Christ would profit them nothing. Galatians 5:2 If it is possible to lose one's salvation, it wouldn't be over sinning (though a real Christian wouldn't be able to stay in sin.) It would be over throwing salvation away. If someone decided to "save" themselves after Jesus had saved them, would they be doing that? I don't know. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9998 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hec, the beliefs of the church are recorded in the New Testament. Heresies deviate from biblical teaching. Moreover, God sent more and more prophets before Jesus came. Once Jesus came, the revelation of God for salvation was complete (Hebrews 1:1-2). Jude 3 tells us that we must contend for the faith "that was once for all entrusted to the saints". The entrusting happened before Jude (who was a half-brother of Jesus) wrote, probably somewhere between AD 65 and 80. The faith entrusted to the saints was the gospel of God revealed by Jesus and explained by Paul (Ephesians 3:9). It is THIS faith for which we must contend. Deviations are to be vigorously resisted. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 300 Registered: 3-2009 |
Colleen, If the faith that was entrusted to the saints was entrusted to them before Jude wrote, probably somewhere between AD 65 and 80. Does that mean that you adhere to the early Book of Revelation date? For if Revelation was written around 95AD then it would be out of the faith entrusted to our fathers. Then it should not be in the Canon of Scriptures. I'm not expert in Revelation and don't even claim to understand the book. But I understand that if it was written early, then all things in Rev are already fulfilled. So in any case the SDA don't have any use for the book. If the things in the book were fulfilled with the Jews,then they do not refer to the end times. If Rev was written later, then it's not part of the faith entrusted to the saints, so they have no use for it either. I guess I'm mixing two things here. The Rev. issue started as a point for the time when the faith entrusted to the saints was closed. Hec | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 144 Registered: 2-2006 |
Well, regarding the Christian Prophet... This is a person who is gifted in building up, encouraging, comforting the Church. His message must be evaluated. He is NOT given AUTHORITY. You hear what he says. You take into consideration that he is a godly person. You weigh his message. You consider that he has a living connection with God. You do NOT fear him! Perhaps he is gifted in the clarity of his vision and his ability to articulate what he is given. He sounds like a good preacher. This idea that he does not have AUTHORITY seems to critically important. This frees God to send messages and still to communicate individually with each believer. God Himself interprets the message to our heart. In the NC God is our ultimate Authority. There Is No Longer ANYONE Between The Believer And His God! Pegg | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 145 Registered: 2-2006 |
I'm choosing to post this next comment separately because I want it to stand by itself... If what I have said above is true, Pegg | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10007 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, most commentators agree on a date of 95 for Revelation, although some think it was earlier. The thing is that Revelation was not new information about either God or salvation. It WAS written by a bone fide apostle, John--but it was not describing doctrine or practice. It was a revelation of Jesus Christ in a visionary picture of the culmination of the end of all things—and even here, John prophesied about events that had been prophesied about in the OT. Only now that Jesus had come, those events could be a bit more specific, and the issues more clear. Revelation is eschatological; it is never considered appropriate to formulate doctrine or practice on eschatological passages. Even though John wrote Scripture (and he has four other books to his name), Revelation is not an explanation of Christian doctrine or living. It is a foreshadowing of events—but the central message is, Do not fear! God is on His throne; He is sovereign; He will accomplish His purposes, and those who are in Jesus is safe. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5006 Registered: 9-2006 |
Pegg, It looks to me like your getting the picture. Hec, In the old carnivals they had prizes for tossing a dime into shaped glasses, or throwing a ring around a bottle, or knocking something off a shelf with a ball. Some of the prizes were doll's of various sorts, they were called kewpy dolls. These games were set up of course so the fathers would pay money to throw to try and win a doll for their children. The games were very difficult such as tossing a dime in a round bottom glass at four feet away. The dime would bounce out of the glass and lay on the floor until the carnival closed, then the carny would gather up the dimes. Or the ring around the bottle trick, it was extremely difficult to throw a light wieght ring around the neck of a bottle sitting on a shelf six to seven feet away. When someone finally did achieve this feat the carny would call loudly "Give that man a kewpy doll!" Of course the man had probably paid six or eight times the cost of the doll, but he could turn and proudly present it to his kid, puff out his chest and walk on. Mean time the bloke behind him see's him win a doll for his kid and the carny has another sucker. The carny's life was another closed circuit life as is Adventism, because they traveled extensively during the carnival season and the other carny's were their family. Adventism is much like that, because they have family and they have the suckers. They reel you in with cheap merchandise, but you end up paying far more than what the merchandise is worth. Then when they have taken all you have, the freedom to live, they hand you a cheap toy that is not worth anything. Step right up folks, give us your freedom for a chance to win heaven. But if you win in this carnival, watch it, they will take you down to hell. This SDA carnival is a dark place where everything is weird, convoluted, a maze of mirrors where you will grope around for years trying to find the real exit, or you may never find the exit and so you are doomed for eternity in a house of mirrors. Step right up folks and gain heaven, let us baptize you into a maze of fear, of imprisonment, blindness and broken dreams, we won't charge you much, just your teeny weeny soul. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 305 Registered: 3-2009 |
River, I already told you that you scare me. You have a way of putting things that is really unnerving. The good thing about it is that the only way to counteract this unnerving is running to Jesus for security. Then nerves calm down and peace comes. Thanks River. As scary as those kewpy dolls are, they are a good way to explain SDAism. Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5008 Registered: 9-2006 |
Boo! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5009 Registered: 9-2006 |
I hope my stories didn't un-nerve you, I just got an idea for a scary story about a guy who is broke and alone and stumble's upon this free seminar on the east end of Chicago, only in the end it ain't free, these people from the seminar take him and dress him up and show him off to their friends and he feels important, then he meets the real leader who is a sinister being, only the others can't see him, only he can see him. He try's to warn the others, but they just look at him and smile and tell him he is safe with them, but he knows none of them is safe and..... Well Heck Hec, your going to have to wait and see what happens to him. I hope the lights don't go out when you read it, and don't read it during a thunder storm or late at night. buwhaaaaaaa. Sweet dreams Hec. The story teller. River |
