| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 831 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's part of an email that I'm sending to an SDA relative. She's a fully-devoted SDA. I'm trying to point out that people in other religions are fully devoted to their "prophets" too and fully convinced that their religion is the RIGHT one. quote: Have you noticed how strange Mormonism is? Neither Mormonism (LDS), nor Islam accept the Bible as written. Mormonism's "prophet" said that it "is only true in so far as it's been translated correctly," so Mormons take the word of their "prophet" over the Bible. Islam tells it's followers that the Bible has been "corrupted" (changed). Now to us who were raised Adventist, those religions look strange to us, and evil - and yes, they are evil; but the people in them believe their "prophets" with all their hearts. They think that they are in the one true religion. If you tell a Mormon he's wrong, he might argue with you and if you tell a Muslim, depending which Muslim and what country you're in at the time, he might kill you! "But we believe the Bible!" you protest. Yes, as interpreted by Ellen White. Texts are taken out of context in the Bible to support her interpretations and if a pastor finds a place where Ellen White definitely contradicts the Bible, and tells people! then he's dismissed from his job. Some pastors find places where Ellen White contradicts the Bible and in order to keep their jobs, they keep quiet. Ellen White said very definitely in "Early Writings" that Jesus did not go into the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary until 1844. The Bible though, says that Jesus went already (and the book of Hebrews was written long before 1844) into the Most Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary. (see Hebrews 6:19,20; Hebrews 9:12,25; and Hebrews 10:12) Ellen White said that our characters must be perfect when Jesus comes. The Bible says that Jesus has already done that for those who are His. "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:14 Love, Dianne P.S. Why are you so convinced that Ellen White is the one true last days prophet? Is it because we were taught it as kids? Is it because she had miracles happen? Catholics have miracles too, but they also ADD to the Bible. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 970 Registered: 11-2007  |
Very good points! Also, miracles prove nothing by themselves. Thess. talks about LYING signs and wonders, and there are many around today too. There is no substitute with comparing the message with the one and only standard of truth. I would be interested to know her response.. on what basis do you believe YOUR prophet is real? I've wanted to ask that so many times! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9983 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good letter, Dianne. Let us know what she says! Colleen | ||
| Scarred4life Registered user Username: Scarred4life Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2009 |
Hebrews 9:12 in the KJV says that he entered into the Holy Place, most newer translations say entered the Most Holy Place. Since most Adventists hold that the KJV is the most reliable Bible you might get an argument that he only entered the Holy Place and then the Most Holy Place in 1844. Grasping at straws I know but don't they do that a lot?? | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 545 Registered: 2-2008  |
People in the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM) do the same thing also. They say the NT is corrupted since it wasn't translated properly. They will tell you that God's Word could only be preserved in Hebrew... so the NT was translated from Hebrew to Greek and then lost its original, proper context. Also, they say that Paul was writing to specific people (his epistles are "just" letters) and he doesn't apply to us. They all have to prove that the Bible is not enough... sigh. vivian | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 834 Registered: 7-2007 |
Adventists cannot explain away Hebrews 6:19,20 where it says in the KJV that Jesus entered "within the veil." Whenever the Bible says "within the veil," it's talking about the Most Holy Place. SDAs can look it up. Notice, for example, Leviticus 16:2 where it says in the KJV "And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat." So as you can see, it just says "holy" rather than Most Holy; yet it obviously refers to the Most Holy Place. When people stand before the throne, they will be without excuse. I was SO blind when I was an SDA. I just went along with everything I was taught. It wouldn't even have occurred to me to check anything out because I was so convinced that the SDA church was the one true church. It really took a series of miracles by God to show me what the Bible actually said. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 843 Registered: 7-2007 |
My SDA sister emailed back. Here is something she wrote... Quote: "I never could believe the way you do. As I read my Bible I see it over and over again that you are wrong about keeping the commandments and the Sabbath. I would have to go against the Bible and my conscience to accept your beliefs. I keep adding to that document called “It is written” that I have sent to you several times in the past. I also don’t agree with you over Ellen White and believe she is a messenger from the Lord. Even the King James version says Holy Place not Most Holy Place. But then we have already gone over this and don’t need to go over it again." (Myself talking again) Actually I just answered this with the post above. I should just copy and paste it, but maybe I'll try to write it a bit more condensed, because sometimes it seems that she doesn't read what I email her. At least she sure doesn't "get" it! I plan to point out Hebrews 6:19.20 where it says that Jesus entered "within the veil." I want to point out that that ALWAYS means the Most Holy Place and to encourage her not only to look up Leviticus 16:2, but to look up all the places where the Bible says "within the veil." Now would be a good time to know how to make a wide-eyed "crazy" face! It's SO frustrating to email her!!!!! (I just know how to make  and  , though at one point Phil said how to do it. Maybe I wrote it down somewhere....hmmm) AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! I guess that expresses my feelings!!! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 844 Registered: 7-2007 |
I just wrote an answer as short and to the point as I could make it. I pray that she reads it. Here it is... Dear _____, Aaron stood before the ark IN THE HOLY PLACE. That's in the KJV Bible in Leviticus 16:2. It also says the ark was WITHIN THE VEIL. Whenever the Bible says within the veil, it's talking about the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 6:19.20 says that Jesus entered within the veil. Love, Dianne | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 845 Registered: 7-2007 |
(The reason I'm so frustrated is because I've been emailing her about this for about 2 and a half years or so. Don't worry, I try to keep the frustration out of my "tone" in my emails to her. I'm concerned for her. She says she believes in Jesus' finished work, but whether or not she really does, I don't know. If she believes that she has to add anything herself, she's not accepting His sacrifice for her.) | ||
| Scarred4life Registered user Username: Scarred4life Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2009 |
Asurprise, I see your Sister hit you with the good old KJV argument. I get that argument all the time from my family, I totally understand your frustration. I refuse flat out to even discuss religion with my SDA family anymore, it just ends up in a 5hr argument about Adventism being right and how wrong I am. They call me being childish, silly etc.. for refusing to talk about it anymore but hey I don't have to listen to the Adventist Broken Record. How many times can you hear it???? Anymore times I will have to put a loft extension on the top of my head just to fit it in! LOL | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 232 Registered: 3-2009 |
Dianne, I feel your frustration! It sounds like your sister's heart is closed to new truth for now. This is something I wonder about. At what point do we stop making arguments to our loved ones and respect their decisions and their conscience? I think there is a time that comes where we really put the relationship in jeopardy and risk alienating them completely. I'm not saying Dianne is at this point, but I'm simply wondering... Scarred4life, I'm so sorry for the harassment you have experienced. It sounds like spiritual abuse, for sure; even if they think they are doing it b/c they care. I believe you have made a wise choice to avoid further discussion, and may want to limit contact with them, also, if the Holy Spirit prompts you to do so. | ||
| Scarred4life Registered user Username: Scarred4life Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2009 |
Seekinglight I agree, they have given there points of view and I have given mine. What more can you do - Except Prayer? Sometimes I think you have to agree to disagree and get on with your lives. Everyone needs to do what they feel right in there own hearts, not follow the crowd because they say they know it all and there right. Isn't that how most of us probably ended up in Adventism in the first place? |
