| Author |
Message |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2798
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 11:16 pm: |     |
Hec,
The following commentary, starting with verse 35, may be helpful: http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=7&contentID=2987&commInfo=6&topic=1%20Corinthians&ar=1Cr_15_35
Jeremy |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 2799
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 11:28 pm: | |
And also Matthew Henry's commentary: http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=4&contentID=1749&commInfo=5&topic=1%20Corinthians&ar=1Cr_15_35
Jeremy |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 608
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 7:00 am: | |
I don't know why, but this hit me a little hard ...
I expected this from SDA's, but I didn't expect this to come from evangelicals ..
What do I mean ...
I expect that SDA's will say that I have left the SDA church, because I'm disgruntled, something happened and that is why I left ...
This morning I heard from an evangelical that there is a question about what I might share about Adventism, because I have left. The comment was - it is like a disgruntled employee - can you really trust what they say ...
For some reason that hit hard ... A little too hard ...
That both my SDA friends and my new evangelical friends may/will perceive my words and me as someone disgruntled so can they really trust what I say ... even though I'm not denouncing or "slamming" Adventists in my speech.
Ouch.
Keri |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 501
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 7:48 am: | |
Keri -
I've been a "there" a bit this weeks too. Here's the thing. We really don't need validation from either the SDA's or the Evangelicals. Sure it'd be nice, but we know what we profess and testify of, and that it's truth. And there are thousands of other formers who say the same thing. And formers of other cult groups also relate. And there are some Christians who also get it.
It seems, whenever anybody stands up for truth there will be people who 'oppose' it. Just like Paul took heat from both the Jews and Romans.
Bottom line is: we can fully document everything we say with a wealth of information. If someone refuses to look at it fully, then that's their decision and is between them and God. We can't place on ourselves more of a burden than is ours to bear. If God places us in positions to speak, then we must speak (gently and with love...but also truthfully). What God does with those words is up to Him.
I do know the frustration though  |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 502
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 8:38 am: | |
Ah, so now I'm thinking about this whole thing again. And allow me to vent a bit. This whole thing of being a 'disgruntled employee' has me irked. And I know that some SDA's view us that way too.
I was an employee of Andrews University. If I were merely disgruntled (or just a former employee) I would have plenty to bad mouth. I could talk about the terrible business practices, the bad HR choices, poor leadership, etc. And I could give details and examples for any of those categories. Trust me, I worked there for 5 years and saw plenty. Ironically, while I was still loyal SDA I tended to 'bad-mouth' the system more than I do now. Now, I pretty much stick to the beliefs and doctrines. Which can can be amply documented. Now, I see why all the inconsistencies from before were happening...and I see what the root of all those problems were. A faulty system.
Another thing. The 'former employee' scenario doesn't work on the basis of. If it was just MY view that was tainted...why does all my SDA family and friends think I'm lost because now I don't believe the Sabbath is binding and that I have a spirit. I have been called apostate from more than one corner. It's ridiculus to wipe us all under the rug as 'disgruntled' from either SDA's or Evangelical's when most of us face HUGE opposition for saying the things we do. What do we have to benefit for complaining about Adventism for? Certainly we don't make any friends for it. And we lose close family member and friends in the process.
Kind of like the comment I get all the time that formers just wanted it easy. EASY!?! If easy was what I wanted it'd have been way better to still be sitting in the pew on Saturday and not rocking the boat. It'd have been easier to know exactly where to worship each weekend, exactly where to put my child in school, and exactly what was going to happen when I died. Trust me. The lies were easier. Now, don't get me wrong...the TRUTH is so worth all that...but definately not easier.
There's my rant...for what it's worth
(Message edited by esther on June 12, 2009) |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 218
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 8:45 am: | |
Keri, I have a suspicion that the evangelical person who made the "disgruntled" comment heard it from an SDA at some point.
I agree, Esther, that leaving the system isn't easy at all. |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 268
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 12:07 pm: | |
Thanks for the links, Jeremy. I'll read them.
Hec |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9978
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 10:34 pm: | |
Keri and Esther, exactly! I have had that very experience...and frankly, it has made me just mad! I'm a little more outspoken now than I used to be; if people seem reluctant to believe me because I'm a former, I just get very pointed about the heresies.
It's true--we don't need the validation of either the evangelicals or the Adventists. Truth is truth. Christians who don't want to know the truth or who distrust "formers" are, I believe, people who have certain loyalties with Adventists in their lives. They might work with them, or do business with them...and frankly, they don't want their own world to be shaken up by knowing the truth.
When a Christian knows the truth about a cult, they are obligated to act on their knowledge--either by refusing to believe everything they hear, or to be discerning of the deception, etc etc. It's very inconvenient to mix up one's worldview with an uncomfortable truth.
One of the reasons I'm SO THANKFUL for Paul Carden and Jim Valentine is that they believe us and know we're telling the truth. And they're professional apologists; their entire work is to defend the faith. They get it. And God is increasing the Christian community's awareness. They have to hear us; they may not want to, but God knows how to make the truth known.
Courage! I totally share your rant...in every detail! And I ALSO know that God is sovereign even over the (arrogant) resistance of the uninformed parts of the body of Christ.
Colleen |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 612
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 12:14 am: | |
I guess the experience didn't initially cause me to be angry. Sad, actually. Teary sad. A little hard to be misunderstood on both fronts - SDA and evangelical.
Now that I have had time to digest it - I am a bit angry.
I really hate the veil and the blindness that is caused for both SDA and evangelical.
I, also, realize I need to turn my frustration over to the Lord - because the enemy would like to take this and run with it. Causing me to not want to associate with evangelicals - cause they don't get it either ... When reality is - only a few don't get it.
Ah, well, grow, submit, grow, submit, - revel in the joy of being forgiven and free in Christ. What a journey. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Keri |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1465
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:04 am: | |
Keri,
Some people just have an adverse reaction to what they perceive as negative. My Mom is like that, and she's a very active Evangelical. It's not so much a spiritual veil, but mainly due to a lack of education. The SDA church has flown under the radar for so many years that most people just don't know enough about the church to make the call over if it's dangerous or not.
We have a very close friend of the family who is a Mormon. We all love her, and she visits our Lutheran Church when she comes to town. However, years ago I mentioned to my Mom how the LDS church is a cult. She got so mad at me because in her eyes I was slamming our friend. It wasn't until our Pastor (who my Mom really respects) did a Sunday School class about cults did my Mom take the whole Mormon thing into perspective. She has since asked some very pointed questions to our friend and prays for her exit from Mormonism regularly now.
So when I tried to tell my Mom she didn't like it because I was being "negative". But when our Pastor explained the same exact things, she listened to him because he's got a doctorate in theology. It's silly, but hey, whatever works.
I have my own experience. When I was younger, I would NEVER have dated a Mormon or a JW. Why? Because I was aware of and had learned about their cultic doctrines. Why did I marry an SDA? Why didn't I know this about the SDA church? Because that information just isn't out there. I knew for certain that I did NOT want to be an SDA, but if you asked me about the IJ, or Satan as the Scapegoat or the "remant", I wouldn't have an answer because not even my own in-laws spoke about it around me. If your evangelical friend had any idea of what strange and dangerous things are being taught, I believe they would have been more understanding.
The way we do this for Evangelicals - get the information out there. Some people send books to pastors, some send fliers, we have the FAF of course, and Dale's ministry. Definitely get out there and speak about your own experience! We've had many members do that and it causes such a rippling effect.
Please continue to associate with evangelicals!! They need to hear what you have to say. A good way is to start relating it with Jehovah's Witnesses. That will make some sense to them, and will make way for your important message.
Leigh Anne |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 616
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:01 pm: | |
Leigh Anne,
Thanks for your post. Not to worry.
I went to church today and sat with someone that is a part of this "experience" with explaining Adventism. I sense that they are supportive and believe me. I'm deciding that those who choose to see me as a "disgruntled employee" or don't believe me about Adventism - well, that is their issue, not mine.
Actually, Leigh Anne, another former, is presenting Adventism next Sunday to all the Adult Bible Fellowships at my church. I was asked by the pastoral staff to be present and help with the Q. & A. after the presentation. The presentation is 15 min. and the Q & A will be 10 min. The first hour will probably represent 100 people and then it will be presented the second hour too.
This is the church in Berrien Springs that the Tinkers and Ratzlaffs will be presenting for the Tour of Encouragement. The pastor is very supportive of educating people about Adventism.
No, I won't be silent. But sometimes it is tempting to hide under a rock . Ha!
Thanks for the encouragement,
Keri |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 505
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:09 pm: | |
Keri....
Be careful not to let that rock squash ya...LOL LOL.
animal..beware of falling rocks !!!!! |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 618
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:15 pm: | |
Thanks, animal ... will I find you under the rock, too? LOL
Sometime you are going to have to share your screen name choice with us.
Appreciate you! |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 506
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:21 pm: | |
wont find me under a rock. You will find me standing on the ROCK Christ Jesus !!!
My screen name is from the muppet character Animal. Thought it would be a fun screen name. Also, dont ya think that animals are adorable(smile)
...Animal...adorable and huggable |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 619
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 8:23 pm: | |
Yep, I do think animals are adorable.
My screen name ... JRT stands for Jack Russell Terrier. I own one. She is about 11 years old right now. And she has the greatest personality for a dog. When I go for walks she wants to say hello to everybody. She has this forever puppy look.
Anyways, maybe someday I'll upload a picture of her and post her by my screen name. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7013
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 3:52 pm: | |
My son is moving to Pensacola, FL with the Air Force. Maybe some time when I visit them, I can meet some of you who live in Florida. I also have a brother in Hudson, near New Port Richey, FL and I plan to visit him also if that is closer for some of you. That would be so much fun. I really want to meet more of the family God has given me. I tell you folks things I cannot tell my blood family.
Diana L |
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