| Author |
Message |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4612
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 9:18 pm: |     |
Duped!
What is it like to be duped by the people you trusted? By leaders who keep choosing to sweep truth under the table and deny their own guilt and then attempt to defame such church workers as D.M. Canright and the modern honest and faithfull church workers such as Dale and Carolyn Ratzlaff, Colleen and Richard Tinker and many others who give up their lives, their time and their talents, even their living for the sake of bringing the freedom Jesus offers to other. Do you think these leaders deserve respect?
What is it like to read such statements as these in response to those efforts:
Congratulations to Colleen Tinker and Dale Ratzlaff for getting a PhD in " The Art of Bashing Religious Organizations: Seventh-day Adventism First."
Or: Every time your magazine comes to my home, I get the feeling that a DEMON has entered my environment. If you want to leave the simple truth and go to the devil, just go and leave the people of God alone. Of course, I know that is a silly request because that is exactly how the devil works.
How do you feel when these folk who deny themselves to bring a message of hope to those still being duped by these same leaders, are criticized and resisted at every turn by these same leaders and to bear insult with a humble heart?
Some one said "To criticise, expose and condemn others is not a pleasant task; but when religious teachers enthrone error, and mislead honest people, silence would be unkind and censurable."
On the one hand they beg us to “Just go to the devil and leave us alone.” And apparently many want to stay duped.
One of the highly objectionable features of that system is the bitter hostility of its believers towards all other churches. (D.M. Canright)
Yes utterly objectionable Mr. Canright, but not the most highly objectionable, the most highly objectionable are their leaders of today and yesterday who have trampled the truth and the trust of their own people underfoot. Refusing the truth to keep their jobs and to dip into the till of the poor.
This battle didn’t start yesterday, I would imagine it started with D.M. Canright, at least that is the first one that I know record of.
The battle won’t end tomorrow either.
Quote:
The number of their actual converts does not tell the harm they do. Where they convert one they confuse a score, who after that have no settled faith in any church, and are useless for any Christian work. Other conscientious persons are bothered and worried over it for years, not knowing what to do. (Who wrote those words?) D.M. Canright.
The leaders of Adventism has had over one hundred years to look these statements over and in the fear of God and tomake adjustments and amends.
How many times has the truth about Adventism been swept under the rug? The leaders meeting in secret and deciding to continue the deceit and then justified keeping their jobs as ‘For the good of all.” Whose good Mr. church leader, yours or theirs?”
How does it feel to be duped by these people?
I have spent over six years looking into the Adventist spectrum, a constant and ongoing work and the more I learn the sicker I am of absolutely worthless men who call themselves Pastors and theologians. You make me sick at the sight of you when seen under any light whatsoever.
You trample with your feet and gobble the food of the children, you worthless sacks of lard.
You lack the guts of a pissant. How does it feel to the people you have been entrusted to teach and to guide when they find out that they have been duped by you?
And you stand without excuse. Do I sound angry? Well…not nearly as the sickening anger you have fostered on others when they find they have been duped out of 20, 30, 40, and 50 years of knowing the security of the cross of Christ and the comfort of the Holy Spirit.
You think I am standing in judgment of you? I wouldn’t waste the time of day, it is not me who will do the judging you worthless sons of darkness, you devourers.
I cannot ever know the depths of betrayal that these people know who have come to find out they have been duped and their confidence betrayed. Having had inflicted on them injury so deep that it will never completely heal this side of heaven.
I cannot ever know how it feels to have the bile come to their throat and to finally spew you out as vomit. To spew out the green poison of the wrath that will be stored up for you unless you repent.
Who am I? Oh, I’m just a nobody, a Jonah parked under a vine to wait and see what happens. Just a Jonah barfed up on the beach wrapped in seaweed. Knowing the depth of God’s mercy to reach out even to you. Only unlike Jonah, I know I am a nobody, just a drunk God picked out of the gutter and slammed down on the hardwood floor of a Pentecostal Church that few people ever knew existed. That’s why I am sitting under a vine to wait and see what God with do to you. If he shrivels my vine I’ll sit in the hot sun because I know his mercy.
How does it feel to be duped? I’ll never know because I had faithful teachers who fear and love God more than their own comfort. Thank God I didn’t have the likes of you.
You can rail on me all you want, but it won’t change a thing, you can censure me all you want, but I won’t be stopped, I’ll hound you till hell freezes over or until I am dead or God has me barfed up on some other beach.
River |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9711
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 12:47 pm: | |
The great irony of this whole "Adventist issue" is that Richard and I and the Ratzlaffs do this work because we do love our Adventist loved ones. Even those we don't personally know are "related" to us in a profound way. We KNOW the nature of their sincerity, their deep conviction of "truth", of their love for their SDA culture, of their identity, of their desire to please God by sincerely embracing "unpleasant truth".
We also deeply understand their feelings of being unjustly criticized and misunderstood. We totally understand the Adventist paradigm, and it is one we deeply embraced, loved, defended, and derived pride from "owning".
I am encouraged by your deep understanding of the true nature of Adventism, River, because most people who have not been Adventist and discovered the reality of the gospel do not know why we take the stand we take. You do understand.
To us, though, the emotional and even hateful letters are only "normal" given the Adventist perspective. Proclamation and its persistent presentation of the biblical gospel is an offense to loyal Adventists. To me, these responses indicate fear and even panic.
The leaders who deliberately deceive are in their own category, and Paul talks in 1 and 2 Timothy about false teachers who worm their way into weak-willed women's houses and teach heresy. Those people will answer to God for their deceptions.
Adventism has, indeed, duped millions of people. But God in His mercy is even now (and has been for years, actually!) awakening and calling His own out of the deep darkness and death.
This weekend after I talked at our women's retreat, I spoke to one woman who is a leader in the ministry and said, "When an Adventist finds Jesus and begins to go to a Christian church, most Christians have no idea that the former Adventist has not merely changed churches but has come out of deep darkness and death and has found life in Jesus. It is overwhelming."
She responded, "I have noticed that those who are former Adventists are unusually excited about finding Jesus. I had no idea all the things about Adventism that you told us."
I understand your anger, River. And I am so thankful to God that He is the eternal judge. He is righteous. He can call even the most entrenched, deceived person to Himself. He is faithful!!
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 353
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 1:55 pm: | |
I understand you too, Colleen, and am still so grateful for the great work you are doing. It has helped me a lot! Don't let the "+2;°`"-s get you down! :-)
I have read some of Canright's writings too (River!), and they are truly amazing. He wrote almost one hundred years ago, and he came up with pretty well all the same insights that others have struggled to find by their own painstaking research.
It is really frustrating to talk to people who have been deceived and are so exited about it! I don't have much (any!) contact with SDAs at the moment, but some JWs have been visiting me for a while, and they are just about in the same boat. I told them I had studied SDA theology, and they reckoned SDAs are just wrong, and teach false doctrine... Well...!
These guys I am talking too are so sincere, so excited about their beliefs, and really keen on helping me discover the "truth". I feel so sorry for them, as they have been lied to, deceived, manipulated, and exploited! Yes, it does make me angry too, but not at them, rather at those that have done this to them.
And it seems to impossible to "get through" to them. They are coming again tomorrow, and I feel so inadequate... I guess, "if any one lack wisdom..."
Well, good night and God bless to you all!
Adrian |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9713
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 4:09 pm: | |
Adrian, thank you. Yes, I do know that you "get it", too. You have demonstrated that fact on this very forum for many years, and I have been very grateful for your incisive and helpful observations over the years.
Indeed, Adrian, God will give you His words. It's almost impossible to get through that thick veneer of sincerity, excitement, and dedication to their own "evangelism". God will provide your words. He can create cognitive dissonance in their heads...
Colleen |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 735
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 8:31 pm: | |
The worst people in the world are those who lead people away from God. Yet, Jesus died for the leaders of cults too. Even though what they do is horrible and evil, we should love them and be loving to them. Confront them on what they are doing wrong, yes! And be firm, yes! But, in a firm, loving manner. Leave the person feeling loved. People in deception need to be won, not driven, to the Lord. I agree that many of the leaders know that they're teaching error, but there are also many who don't know any better.
Proverbs 15:1 says: "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1658
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 9:12 pm: | |
Recently, a Jehovah's Witness man rang my doorbell on a Saturday afternoon. I was surprised to see him alone in his witnessing work. We had a frank discussion on various topics right in my doorway. I always accept their free literature--one less leaflet to deceive another person. This time I even requested a New World Translation of the Bible which he didn't have with him. I am wondering if he will return with a gift Bible--being he knows that I understand most of their teachings backwards and forwards.
By the way, I collect Bibles--even theologically-mutilated ones. Maybe an Adventist will someday give me a Clear Word Bible to add to my collection of cultic Bibles. It is truly amazing how these heretics know exactly which texts to delete or rewrite to their own advantage. Indeed, Satan has an organized heresy (even labeling it as being a "church" or "denomination") specifically geared for every type of human personality, lifestyle, emotion, formality, educational background, etc.
Dennis Fischer |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9714
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:04 pm: | |
Yes, Dennis, so true! And Asurprise, thank you for your great post.
Colleen |
Seekinglight
Registered user
Username: Seekinglight
Post Number: 99
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 8:00 am: | |
Asurprise, you are right! The battle is not ours, but God's. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4624
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 8:13 am: | |
Looking at my post in the light of the new day. 
I don't regret anything I said in that post. I was happy as a clam yesterday and I'm still happy.
Sometimes it is just better to confront a thing as to try and soften it up, pour grease on it so that it don't screech as it goes down the skids.
Well...I'm sorry, but those who would seek to misguide and keep the truth from getting out are going to screech on their way down the skids no matter how much grease you throw on it. They screech with the failed responsibility that they took on when they desired to become teachers.
If I ain't careful now I will get started again and I have already said it without regrets, no condemnation of love missing here. I love in abundance and aplenty.
Now I am just going to sit over here and be happy under the shade of the vine that the Lord has caused to come up over my head.
River |
Honestwitness
Registered user
Username: Honestwitness
Post Number: 844
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 10:35 am: | |
When someone has been imprisoned in a dark dungeon, we who live in the light want to get them out of that dungeon, because we love them and we don't want anyone to suffer.
Being sensitive to the prisoner's current level of sensitivity to light, however, the kindness of Christ would motivate us to open the prison door very slowly, to give the prisoner's eyes adequate time to adjust to the light.
Light is a precious and wonderful thing. However, too much of it at once only causes pain and blindness and causes us to recoil from it.
River, your opening post is one that I hope my SDA husband would not see, not now and maybe not ever. The content may be accurate, but the intensity is too strong for me to be comfortable having him see it at this point.
My hope is that any exposure my husband has to Former SDAs or their web sites portrays us Formers as reasonable, level-headed people who are seeking to know Christ and His Word better.
The tone of your post reminds me of the tone of some of the letters to the editor in Proclamation Magazine. I know Christ used harsh language with the Pharisees a time or two, but I don't believe that sets a precedent for me to use harsh language with SDAs any more than some of Christ's other actions would set a precedent for me. (For example, Christ never married. That doesn't mean I should never marry.)
River, I appreciate a lot of what you share on this forum. But, this time I feel you have overflowed your banks.
Your loving sister in Christ,
Honestwitness |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4625
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 11:06 am: | |
Well, since it offends your tender sensibilities so much I will give it a break, hows that? Zat suit you? |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 354
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 1:14 pm: | |
Dennis,
That idea that Satan has a heresy to suit every personality type has really got me thinking! Thanks for the thought! Maybe it was at the back of my mind already, but not expressed!?
I guess I need to think, and pray, about this.
AB |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 355
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 1:19 pm: | |
Well, the JW guys came today, and we had a discussion! These guys are the most sincere people, and to be honest, they are far "nicer" and more "dedicated" than most other "Christian" Hungarians that I have met in the last ten years.
Colleen, yes, God does give me ideas to share with them, and I did that today too, "increasing the cognitive dissonance". It appears to have no effect, though maybe it does...
I hope so...
Adrian |
Honestwitness
Registered user
Username: Honestwitness
Post Number: 845
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 5:23 pm: | |
River, thank you for being concerned about my tender sensibilities. I appreciate you, brother.
Honestwitness |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 335
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 2:42 pm: | |
I thought I would share a light bulb moment...
quote:(12) Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, (13) not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. (14) But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 2 Cor. 3:12-14; ESV
Colleen writes above about a woman who commented concerning former Adventists, "I have noticed that those who are former Adventists are unusually excited about finding Jesus."
As an Adventist I talked about Jesus. I understood Him to be the Son of God. But I didn't know Jesus ... I thought I did, but I didn't. My heart was hardened, because it was focused on the Old Covenant (or law).
As I did a further search of 2 Cor. 3:14 ... the hardening of the heart sent me to Mark 6:52 ... which is a little odd and out of "timing" ...
quote:they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened. Mark 6:52
The disciples had witnessed the feeding of the 5 thousand, and Mark 6:52 is written just after they see Jesus walking on the water; He steps into the boat and calms the sea. Then Mark 6:52, "they did not understand about the loaves [Jesus is the Bread of Life], because their hearts were hardened".
Even the disciples had a veil over their hearts. And they walked and talked with the "physical" incarnate Jesus.
quote:But to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear. Deut. 29:4
Only through Christ can we truly understand anything spiritual. Only through Him are our eyes opened to spiritual things ...
Only through Jesus lifting the veil can any of us truly know Jesus. That is why Former Adventists are so excited about Jesus ... they thought they knew - But now they truly know. They have been deceived and in deep darkness knowing a "false" Jesus. When the veil is lifted by Christ - they see Him for WHO He is and excitement abounds.
It is humbling, exciting, and words can never express ...
Keri |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 336
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 3:06 pm: | |
Sorry, one last thought .... Paul responds to the Corinthians in 2 Cor. 7:8-10;
quote:(8) For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it—though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. (9) As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.
(10) For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
So, earlier Paul talks of the covenants and that those who focus on the Old Covenant have hardened hearts and a veil covers them ... now latter in 2 Cor. we find that the Corinthians took to heart Paul's writing and repented. Jesus removed the veil for them.
Christ still removes veils today ... Even hardened old hearts can turn and that is a REAL miracle.
Keri |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4638
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 4:17 pm: | |
What you say is true keri, however there are those leaders who have had the gospel and the problems of Adventist exposed to their eyes and yet they refuse for the sake of a job, or status as has been revealed over the years.
Read "Truth led me out by Dale Ratzlaff." The warning goes out constantly through such avenues as Proclamation! A fitting name for a warning.
Read Jess Dixons story: Soli Deo Gloria!
The leaders know who they are that I was speaking to at the beginning of this thread.
I was not speaking to the Adventist who didn't know.
You think that I was too harsh, but my harshness won't be a drop in the bucket to the suffering of those leaders, those ones who know and sweep it under the rug, "Just take the job Dale, don't rock the boat!"
The truth is that I have never, ever, knowingly spoken in such a manner to those who did not know, those who did the best they could with what they had and were taught from a child.
But I will tell you one thing this has sure got me to reexamining my usefullness on this forum.
Perhaps I had no use being here from the day I came here. That is a possibility and I am ready to recognize any mistake I have made in trying to follow the Lead of the Holy Spirit and I am ready to go do something else and I am reviewing my human ability to get it wrong and also my possible inability to be of any value to anyone.
I re-examine myself minutely, every thing I try to do, and ask, was that God? Now I am examining every single thing minutely clear back to 2006.
I don't intend to try to usurp any ministry, I will be happpy with salvation, even if Old Peter has to squirt me with a fire extinguisher as I go through the gate.
I take what was said seriously and I will take note and examine, and re-examine in depth.
River |
Jrt
Registered user
Username: Jrt
Post Number: 337
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 6:15 pm: | |
Oh, River ... I was not even thinking of your original post when I wrote what I did above ...
I do admit it fleetingly crossed my mind as I pushed the button to post it in this thread ...
Maybe I should have posted it as a separate thread and then it wouldn't have been minutely attached to this original post ...
My main thought was this idea that former Adventists are SO excited about Jesus ... And I was reading from Sabbath in Christ today and came across 2 Cor. 3 - which I had studied this summer when I was looking at Old Covenant/New Covenant. I just hadn't seen the part about only through Christ is it taken away ... and it hit me - NO WONDER why former Adventists are so excited about Jesus - it is because they didn't have Jesus to begin with - and the Jesus they did understand was "false" in the way He was taught...
River - you are SO valued - and I have learned SO much from you!!! If you are examining your place on this forum - then please examine this ... I have seen Jesus through your posts ... I have been warned of the "monster" hideous "spirit" behind Adventism ... I have been encouraged by you ... challenged by you ... and had a good laugh or two by your posts ...
In regards to your original post ... Jesus spoke very, very, frankly to the religious leaders of His time - I think of the 7 "woes" in Matthew ... calling them white washed tombs ... He didn't mince words with them ...
I saw you as doing the same in your original post ... You were calling it as you saw it ...
So please, dear friend, I value you too much for my post to be perceived as a rebuke to you. It was not intended to be so ...
With Care,
Keri
P.S. Part of this "veil being removed" and "saving faith" is a mystery to me ... My new paradigm is SO new to me - I couldn't claim any "full" knowledge of anything - except Salvation is all of Jesus and none of me...
Why do some believe and some not? ... Does Jesus give saving faith to some and not to others? ... ... we are not like the animals ... at some point I'm thinking we are culpable ... Do I fully understand that all? No ... And we can argue Arminianism and Calvinism tell the cows come home (no pun for animal ) ... at some point I leave it as a mystery I don't fully understand yet ...
Just my thoughts ... |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 9738
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 10:40 pm: | |
River, I understand what you meant, and your usefulness on the forum has not changed. Each person here is here because God has brought him or her, and each person is contributing and benefitting in unique and important ways.
River, your spiritual insight is always a blessing. And Keri, thank you for your sensitive thoughts above.
Colleen |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4640
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 3:40 am: | |
keri,
Your post was not perceived as a rebuke to me. It was both insightful and a blessing.
Ok, here is what it comes down too folks, even if in the right, I had rather admit wrong than to than to claim my right above a brother or a sister.
I submit my apology in that light. I had rather have one minute in the light of love and understanding for my brothers and sisters, than a lifetime of claiming "right".
River |
Stevendi
Registered user
Username: Stevendi
Post Number: 434
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 6:50 am: | |
River,
You said "I had rather have one minute in the light of love and understanding for my brothers and sisters, than a lifetime of claiming "right".
You would make a lousy Adventist.
Blessings,
Steve |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 404
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 8:45 am: | |
I got my Proclaimation and read the letters and they just make me sick as to what sda's write.
They claim to be loving people but all I see is hate. I also see this on carm when you do not accept and go along with what they believe and they are challanged.
As I sit here thinking about the pastors involved I honestly think they are also duped as they don't really know what is going on in the gc behind closed doors but only what they are told and what they have been taught in their colleges. Their text-proofing has really put a veil over their eyes and of course it has filtered down to the congregation because sda's are taught to accept what the pastors say instead of challenging them. What is sad is that the so-called evangelical sda's who claim not to read egw do not realize they are still being spoon fed her teachings as they have learned to disguise her in their preaching and they do not know it as they have refused to read her so they think she is not being used. Oh! what a vicious cycle.
I praise God for leading me into the truth.
Gail |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 99
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 9:22 am: | |
A-hum.
I remember when I was studying to be a pastor. They would instruct us, in the preaching class, not to quote EGW directly. Instead, we were to say something like, "the inspired pen says", or "an inspired author said", etc. (cover up. cover up.) |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 4649
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 1:01 pm: | |
The gentleness of his love flows through eternity
May I accept that love and give it to my friends
So that friends we’ll ever be
I had rather have the love of my friends, than gold or silver sheen.
May it caress me all my days, for without them what then?
I humbly bow myself, take up the towel of fate
I cannot live without my friends
How can I live with hate?
So friend if I have hurt you, even with unintention
I bow my back to you, tears of regret to mention
And if I ever say a word, to make you sad or blue
Will you give it to the Lord
He alone knows how I love you
So forgive me friend, for an unkind word said in such a haste
For does make my own tears flow
It makes me feel disgraced
For God alone knows how I need you
My life to fulfill
If I should make another mistake
Will you forgive me still?
And I repent before that cross
So high upon the hill
River |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 102
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 1:11 pm: | |
I like that. |
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2
Post Number: 205
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 4:41 pm: | |
I'll never forget when my last SDA encouraged me to invite people to the Revelation Seminar. He showed me the flyers and said we purposely keep the meetings in public auditoriums and keep the SDA name off the materials so that people would come.
At the time I believed the SDA church was the true church and I was completely shocked when he told me this. This same man scowled at me when I told him that I was marrying a non-SDA. Deception was OK to bring the "enemy" in to the SDA church but marrying one was "taboo".
He was a real nice dude, but that always stayed with me and when I found that the church was covering up things about EGW it both angered and saddened me but made my exit real easy. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 6827
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 5:27 pm: | |
The last SDA church I attended wanted to have some kind of seminar at one of the casinos, in a conference room. They could not raise the money to do that, so they had to have it at the church. In our Bible class we were encouraged to be friendly to the visitors to the church. We had a potluck lunch to which they were invited. I was friendly to one young lady and felt very conflicted about encouraging her to come back to the seminar. I was friendly, but do not remember encouraging her to come back. That was just before one of the pastor's challenged the class to read the NT, without any other book. I took him up on the challenge and the rest is history. Thank you awesome God.
Diana L |
|
