| Author | Message | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 288 Registered: 8-2008 |
SDAs claim that 457 B.C. marks the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, spoken of in Daniel 9. They get this from Artaxerxes decree in Ezra 7. All previous decrees from Persian kings, they say, only pertained to the Temple, but this one pertained to the entire city, which is the focus of Daniel 9. Let's read this passage in Ezra 7:11-26:
Anyone notice anything conspicuously absent? You know, like an actual decree to rebuild the walls and street of Jerusalem, that SDAs claim is in there? Adventists teach that the command was given in Ezra 7, not because the text says it, but because "thus saith Ellen White." It is nowhere in Ezra 7. I had never dealt much with the Daniel stuff because Hebrews is so undeniably clear about the falsehood of the IJ. I read this yesterday because of a discussion on CARM, and was floored by the fact that a decree to build the walls and streets of Jerusalem is nowhere in the text. Once again our Adventist friends are inserting words into Scripture to support a doctrine that comes, not from Scripture, but from the pen of Ellen White and some guy's alleged vision in a cornfield. | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 214 Registered: 10-2008  |
Yup the decree was only to build the temple. My tired mind cannot recall at the moment off hand when the decree was to build the rest of Jerusalem but this shows the SDA church sticking to bad doctrine even when history shows otherwise. Ive heard a # of pastors preach on this and I think both David Jeremiah and Chuck Missler have good historical data in their writings and sermons as well as on Youtube. I seem to remember with some of the debates I've had on facebook that SDAs argue that since this was the first decree that this is the starting point and the other decrees were just fulfillment of the first---fuzzy logic. Even so, using this date holds little value when they say Daniel speaks of 2300 years when the best translations show that it is 2300 evening/morning sacrifices. Sometimes I have to shake my head and say "wow you really believed that?" Oh I'm so thankful the veil has been lifted. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 291 Registered: 8-2008 |
The first decree pertaining to returning to Jerusalem was given by Cyrus, I believe in the same year that the vision of Dan. 9 took place. Some interpretations of Daniel 9 imply that the decree was a Divine Decree that went forth when Daniel prayed. Others claim the decree was in 444 BC with Nehemiah. Non-SDA scholars know for certain when the decree wasn't, and that is 457 BC. The other problem SDAs have is Daniel 9 is clear that the 70 sevens are not a solid block of time. The text splits them up into distinct time blocks. (Message edited by bskillet on April 30, 2009) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9756 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good point, Bskillet. I hadn't read that Ezra passage in a long time...you're right. I was always so confused about the whole 2300-day time chart that the proofs never "stuck". I just knew it was crazy-making. But that passage says NOTHING about Jerusalem's wall. Sometimes I wonder how we lived with the dissonance...we could look right at the words of the Bible and fail to really SEE. If the words contradicted what we'd been taught, we interpreted. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6843 Registered: 3-2004  |
Or, like me, believed EGW!!! YUCK!!! I thank our awesome God for taking me out of adventism. Diana L | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 292 Registered: 8-2008 |
Ugh! So true. When I debate SDAs on CARM, it's like they refuse to see what is directly in front of their faces, and instead cut out a text here and then find another text they can combine with it to make themselves look correct. But they invariably take all the texts out of context. They're starting from the assumption that everything the SDA church teaches, and everything EGW says, is the truth. They do not start from the reality that Jesus alone is the Truth, and that we must conform our theology to Him. Since their initial assumption is the veracity of SDA claims, they will never admit any evidence to the contrary. If EGW and the SDA church say Ezra 7 refers to rebuilding the walls and streets of Jerusalem, they'll accept that as correct, even when their own eyes say the opposite. Adventism is just like Animal Farm. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 861 Registered: 11-2007  |
Or the Emperor's New Clothes - fables and fairy tales - Thanks for pointing this out in Ezra! |
